Clown Baby
Well-Known Member
incandescent lighting will give you the fattest buds bro!!
Which is better hid or led?
- Thread starter halfbaked90
- Start date
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
Here's my take on LEDs and HID, a timeline if you will....
2007-2008: 1st LEDs hit the market with low output 2 color LEDs, 460nm and 630nm, no one got good results even though they were promised miracles.
Over time, LEDs got a little better, (some) more colors, (some) more output, but because all the vet growers had their grows mostly dialed with HPS, they had no reason to change to LED, that left the newb growers to give them a go.
Newb growers failed at the LEDs because they were newbs, and used crappy lights that were barely better than the 1st gen of LEDs. This only enforces the idea that HPS is in fact better.
Time goes by, LEDs get a little better yet, but still the same situation as before, vet growers are set up already and do not want to change to something new, there is no reason to!
Also, during this time, there are plenty of fake journals floating around making LEDs "look good", but were easily spotted, and further hurt the reputation of LEDs.
LEDs start to get even better yet, with 3w higher output LEDs, and better components, but because of the shadiness of past LED companies and overzealous newb growers hyping up their expensive purchase to justify it, it was and is difficult for the would-be 1st LED grower to decide to make a switch to something new.
In the present time, we're pretty much in the same situation, but with much better LEDs, and many great 1 gram per watt + LED grows, big and small alike, my best personal experience with LEDs was a little shy of 1gpw. However, it is difficult for the regular everyday grower and forum member to decipher the real honest LED grows from the ones from shady salesmen or affiliates.
Also in the present time, the present day HID users look back at the failed LED grows, and also at the fake but good LED grows, and also the actual good real grows, but can't tell which is which, so decide to stay with HPS, and voice their opinion about it.
The only real way to find out if an LED light works, buy a good one with specs that make sense, not promises of miracles, and give it a go yourself. Or not, if you have a perfectly dialed in HPS grow, there is nothing wrong by not changing to something different.
I grew with fluorescent lights for the longest time, and had my area dialed in as good as I thought it would be, and took a lot of convincing to switch, and some years of trial and error before deciding to build my own panels.
Blackstar was the 1st LED I got reasonable results with, but the light broke after about a year of use. The HGL was a great LED, built very solid, and performed awesome, but the price was very crazy, and the owner is not the best of people to deal with.
My 1st finished grow with LED was with a 90 watt UFO from HTG with what they said were 2w LEDs, I got 8 grams from a 67 watt draw :/ That was in 2009, and they told me it would "easily" replace a 400-600w HPS.
Every lighting option has their place in the market, some people really like CFLs and swear by them, some like T5s, some like CMH, so, it just comes down to what people think is best for them. If you want heavy yeilds with a low start up cost, HPS is the way to go for sure if you can manage your heat. Some LED enthusiasts like to say LED makes zero heat, and HPS makes heat like a volcano. Neither is true. LEDs do make heat!! Just not that much, the better their cooling system, the lower the heat they make. But also, it is not too hard to manage heat with HPS, a cooltube and inline fan is pretty cheap. For me, the biggest reason I chose LEDs over HPS, is because of the noise made by the needed exhaust fans associated with exhausting heat. My last LED grow, I used a 185w light in a 2x3 area, and had a 140mm 12v 450mA fan doing my exhausting, that translates to 5.4w, and silent exhaust.
2007-2008: 1st LEDs hit the market with low output 2 color LEDs, 460nm and 630nm, no one got good results even though they were promised miracles.
Over time, LEDs got a little better, (some) more colors, (some) more output, but because all the vet growers had their grows mostly dialed with HPS, they had no reason to change to LED, that left the newb growers to give them a go.
Newb growers failed at the LEDs because they were newbs, and used crappy lights that were barely better than the 1st gen of LEDs. This only enforces the idea that HPS is in fact better.
Time goes by, LEDs get a little better yet, but still the same situation as before, vet growers are set up already and do not want to change to something new, there is no reason to!
Also, during this time, there are plenty of fake journals floating around making LEDs "look good", but were easily spotted, and further hurt the reputation of LEDs.
LEDs start to get even better yet, with 3w higher output LEDs, and better components, but because of the shadiness of past LED companies and overzealous newb growers hyping up their expensive purchase to justify it, it was and is difficult for the would-be 1st LED grower to decide to make a switch to something new.
In the present time, we're pretty much in the same situation, but with much better LEDs, and many great 1 gram per watt + LED grows, big and small alike, my best personal experience with LEDs was a little shy of 1gpw. However, it is difficult for the regular everyday grower and forum member to decipher the real honest LED grows from the ones from shady salesmen or affiliates.
Also in the present time, the present day HID users look back at the failed LED grows, and also at the fake but good LED grows, and also the actual good real grows, but can't tell which is which, so decide to stay with HPS, and voice their opinion about it.
The only real way to find out if an LED light works, buy a good one with specs that make sense, not promises of miracles, and give it a go yourself. Or not, if you have a perfectly dialed in HPS grow, there is nothing wrong by not changing to something different.
I grew with fluorescent lights for the longest time, and had my area dialed in as good as I thought it would be, and took a lot of convincing to switch, and some years of trial and error before deciding to build my own panels.
Blackstar was the 1st LED I got reasonable results with, but the light broke after about a year of use. The HGL was a great LED, built very solid, and performed awesome, but the price was very crazy, and the owner is not the best of people to deal with.
My 1st finished grow with LED was with a 90 watt UFO from HTG with what they said were 2w LEDs, I got 8 grams from a 67 watt draw :/ That was in 2009, and they told me it would "easily" replace a 400-600w HPS.
Every lighting option has their place in the market, some people really like CFLs and swear by them, some like T5s, some like CMH, so, it just comes down to what people think is best for them. If you want heavy yeilds with a low start up cost, HPS is the way to go for sure if you can manage your heat. Some LED enthusiasts like to say LED makes zero heat, and HPS makes heat like a volcano. Neither is true. LEDs do make heat!! Just not that much, the better their cooling system, the lower the heat they make. But also, it is not too hard to manage heat with HPS, a cooltube and inline fan is pretty cheap. For me, the biggest reason I chose LEDs over HPS, is because of the noise made by the needed exhaust fans associated with exhausting heat. My last LED grow, I used a 185w light in a 2x3 area, and had a 140mm 12v 450mA fan doing my exhausting, that translates to 5.4w, and silent exhaust.
Red1966
Well-Known Member
"Humanoids"? WTF? I said LEDs cost more. Pay attention. If you think that we have more than a moderate understanding of how plants use light, you're not qualified to advise anyone. If you want to spend a lot of money to play with new technology, by all means, please do. Your money will help fund research to make LEDs both cheaper and more effective. When they get cheaper and better, I'll be very happy to buy them. The first color TVs were crappy and very expensive. "Early adopters" paid for the research that made them better and cheaper. LEDs are just not ready for mass consumption yet. When you can buy a true 1000 watt LED with a much better spectrum for 2-300 bucks in five years (or less), you'll regret that you spent $2000 to get 200 or less true watts in a poorer spectrum. I'm happy to see you get a bad deal so I can get a better one. I just don't think it's right to encourage newbies to waste their money.
Red1966
Well-Known Member
No, a continuous nuclear explosion 93 million miles away will give you the fattest buds!
Red1966
Well-Known Member
Or steal a bunch of the newer traffic lights. They're everywhere.
squarefodder
Active Member
read what you wrote. you wrote that hid was more expensive lmfao and you've never grown with leds, I have. go home
hyroot
Well-Known Member
^^^ that statement red made is full of redundancies and contradictions and does not have a grasp of how business works. Spending higher costs does not make lights cheaper in the future. Its supply and demand. the more led's that are sold the cheaper it gets. If hardly anyone bought hid. Hid would cost more. Even 3 years ago it cost $600 to $700 to buy one 1000 watt. Now Its $300 to.$400 depending on where. The price drop was not due to people paying for tech. That tech was done with in the 80's.It was the flood of growers from all the medical rec holders amd dispensaries. Hence supply and demand. That applies to every business model. Look how much macs have dropped in price. You can buy a g5 for $2000 but a few years ago it was 10 times that amount..... Those arguments don't even have a leg to stand on.
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
"i saw a highbay induction light at the hardware store the other the day it was bright as fuck."
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
lol im not meaning to troll but hyroot you are absolutly right as far as spectrum goes but do you think LED has the light intensity to grow plants 4-5ft in height?
personally i dont think flouro or LED can hold up in a 10x10 grow room, but it we where using x3 4x4 lit with LED SOG more small plants yeild could be similar.
personally i dont think flouro or LED can hold up in a 10x10 grow room, but it we where using x3 4x4 lit with LED SOG more small plants yeild could be similar.
wyteberrywidow
Global
That would be a nice test to be done.
donniemcm
Well-Known Member
check out my grow Poly.... so far REALLY GOOD!
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
oh yeah i forgot will do! but for real that shit looked nice....
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Typing on ur phone is a bitch huh.....
I don't really know about 4ft to 5ft. Mine are usually 2.5 to 3 ft. Some end up at 3.5. With t5 I did 3 sog batches in 1 gals. I got 6 to 7 oz off 1 8 bulb. I have had better results with larger plants. Which im back to doing now. Finishing around 3 ft. And taking up 1.5 x 1.5 each plant.
The ones I have in veg now im doing nugbuckets main line method. Thats much longer veg time. But those will be much wider at 2.5 to.3ft tall so will see.
Like I said I have better results with larger plants. In sog. Plants do not veg enough to create a good root ball in soil and cant even hold themselves up. I had to put a stake in each pot. Larger plants, I don't have too. If I did sog again I would do dwc. But I like organic soils more. Less work and better quality than hydro.
I don't really know about 4ft to 5ft. Mine are usually 2.5 to 3 ft. Some end up at 3.5. With t5 I did 3 sog batches in 1 gals. I got 6 to 7 oz off 1 8 bulb. I have had better results with larger plants. Which im back to doing now. Finishing around 3 ft. And taking up 1.5 x 1.5 each plant.
The ones I have in veg now im doing nugbuckets main line method. Thats much longer veg time. But those will be much wider at 2.5 to.3ft tall so will see.
Like I said I have better results with larger plants. In sog. Plants do not veg enough to create a good root ball in soil and cant even hold themselves up. I had to put a stake in each pot. Larger plants, I don't have too. If I did sog again I would do dwc. But I like organic soils more. Less work and better quality than hydro.
donniemcm
Well-Known Member
so far the induction lamp is exceeding my expectations.... pistils after 3 or 4 days of 12/12.... and zero heat footprint..... with inline fan same as ambient temp....loving it~
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
bushy and muti cola 3ft max at end of flower thats the types of results flouuro do best under . but really i was trying to imply the comparison only be beteen plants grown with single cola. but a bushy SOG with slightly larger plants could still be comparable but like im saying you 4-5ft plants aint no bitch.
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
I honestly do not see too many 4' or 5' tall plants being grown with LEDs unless it has 600w or more of actual draw.
I think expecting a 150w or even a 300w LED to penetrate like a 600w or 1000w HPS is asking too much. A 150w LED will penetrate like, well, a 150w light.
My experience with LEDs, instead of trying to grow plants taller, growing them wider and shorter with less yet more spread out watts per square foot works much better for LEDs.
Growing style needs to change some with LEDs, just like with fluoros and HID, 2 different needs entirely.
I think expecting a 150w or even a 300w LED to penetrate like a 600w or 1000w HPS is asking too much. A 150w LED will penetrate like, well, a 150w light.
My experience with LEDs, instead of trying to grow plants taller, growing them wider and shorter with less yet more spread out watts per square foot works much better for LEDs.
Growing style needs to change some with LEDs, just like with fluoros and HID, 2 different needs entirely.
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
not in the case of LEDs and flouro since the light is distributed over a larger surface area.
this has a lot to do with penetration power.
superstoner1
Well-Known Member
so as a dedicated hps grower and not recent on led knowledge i went and read a bunch of articles and posts and manufacturer data. i am almost considering adding a large led to the middle of my room and have a 1000 hps on each side. anyone have experience with the blackstar 900? i run my lights without aircooling and wanted to add a third 1000hps but the new veg room is using the extra cooling capacity i had and the hps would take me over my comfortable limit, so i thought that would be perfect for one of the new high power led's.