best type of light to use with 3' height in cab?

[budballer]

I think ill be able to handle the heat fine. Hey MB i looked up your HPS grow, you said the heat was pretty tough to manage in a cab that size. Since ill be doing similar dimensions and possibly a 250 watt hps with lumatek ballast, would a cool tube make a big difference in heat and how high the plants could grow? Cause if I let the plants grow up to an led light the buds on the edges won't get any light

 

[Buzzo]

Saying LED's put out no heat is false. LED's put out a lot of heat. The main reason they run cooler and can be placed closer is that the heat actually goes in the reverse direction of the light. So, the heat goes up while the light is pointing down. This coupled with the fact that LED's are small, and generally attached to a chunk of aluminum to work as a heat sink, with extra heat sinks mounted on the LED's star, makes them run cool.

Heat rises no matter what; not just with LEDs. Also, I wouldn't exactly say LEDs put out a lot of heat. They're, hands down, the easiest light source to cool - great solution for micro/closet growers.

budballer

A cool tube would make a significant difference in heat. Also, you mention letting plants grow up to the LED, this really isn't a good idea. As others have mentioned, most panels on the market use 60 and/or 90 degree optics (on top of the 3w diodes) that will bleach and stunt the shit out of your plants. I wouldn't go lower than 12-14" if a 3w panel was using 60/90 lenses.

 

[budballer]

Yea I think ill either go 2x150w HPS of 1x250w HPS. either way id have cool tubes and a good fan. With that setup I think ill be okay

 

[ActionHanks]

You should consider taking the route i did. Get a switchable (dimmable) 150, 175, 250 watt digital mh/hps ballast.

If you go to saltysupply you can catch a decent deal on a lot of digital lumtek ballast, idk if im allowed to tell you that lol but I'd want someone to tell me.

 

[budballer]

Haha thank you hanks! That's exactly the ballast I was going to get, but now you made me feel even better about my future purchase. Do you suggest a 250 for my space? Does the lumatek ballast really run the bulb cooler at higher intensity? Not sure I believe all of their sales claims but its a great ballast regardless it seems.

 

[brotherjericho]

Hello RIU! Im going to be building my first cab real soon and was wondering what would be the best light for my set up. The dimensions will be 2' x 2' x 3' tall. I will be using many ideas from the NGB style cabs such as shallow water culture bubbleponics. However I can't decide between a 250 watt HPS and around a 180w actual draw LED set up. For LED choices I came down to two the A51-90 or a Fero LED model with the 6 light modules. Both of these pull between 180 - 200 actual watts and are proven grow lights as far as I've seen. However I've heard mixed thigh about either light in tight spaces. Some say go HID with cool tube to get close to the buds and some say LED with its much lower heat output can be put right up to the buds. Then again even the manufacturers recommend a healthy amount of space between LED light and plant (I guess so color spectrums fully mix?) So now I'm wondering if my budget is around $400 and I am trying to be as electrically efficient as possible.. but yield > energy use so which route should I go for tight vertical space? 250 watt HPS which will run hotter and draw more power, or 180 watt LED which have supposed minimum distances between light and plant. All comes down to which will yield more. Also please don't just say HID cause LED sucks. The Fero LED has been proven to out grow 250 watt HPS. So now that everything is out there and fair.. which light type can produce more up close and personal? Thanks!

Google "PLL Club". Huge thread on another cannabis related board. PLLs would be perfect for your cab because of the limited space and the ability to get the lights pretty close to the plants plus they get a pretty good penetration for fluorescents.

I would not recommend LED panels because you can bleach several strains if the lights get closer to 6-10". With PLLs you can get as close to 3" to a mature plant.

As a primer, PLLs are basically t5 tubes split in half and paired. Therefore you can go as high as 55w (4800 initial lumens) per tube. You can use 6500k for veg and 2700-3000k for flower.

Just my suggestion based on your cab dimensions.

 

[budballer]

I'll check them out, but I'm looking for electrical efficiency with the best yield, I don't know what it is, but any kind of fluorescent seems to be lacking compared to HID in my mind in every aspect except heat output.

 

[brotherjericho]

I'll check them out, but I'm looking for electrical efficiency with the best yield, I don't know what it is, but any kind of fluorescent seems to be lacking compared to HID in my mind in every aspect except heat output.

Limited head room and HID are typically not a good match, that is why I suggested PLLs.

 

[Buzzo]

Limited head room and HID are typically not a good match, that is why I suggested PLLs.

+1

PLLs can do wonderful things in the right hands.

 

[budballer]

hmm ill do some more research on it, how many watts would i need? could it penetrate to bottom buds if i scrog'd?

 

[cues]

Limited head room and HID are typically not a good match, that is why I suggested PLLs.

That's where being inventive comes in.
I manage to pull off a 250w scrog in 3ft height with HID and hydro, so does Matchbox. It's all about the design and, above all, the air exchange.
Not knocking you, good suggestion on the PLLs (They also generally seem to put out more lumens than nomal cfl but fixtures are expensive), but I think this can be done with HID, producing better results.

 

[Matchbox]

I think ill be able to handle the heat fine. Hey MB i looked up your HPS grow, you said the heat was pretty tough to manage in a cab that size. Since ill be doing similar dimensions and possibly a 250 watt hps with lumatek ballast, would a cool tube make a big difference in heat and how high the plants could grow? Cause if I let the plants grow up to an led light the buds on the edges won't get any light

Your right, at first I did, but eventually I got the amount of passive intake holes right and it was perfect, maybe a few degrees too hot but not enough to mess em up. And I set my light schedule to be 12 hours ON during the evening so it was 5pm-5am and off during the hottest hours of the day (mid morning and afternoon).

But yeah if your dead set on HID, a cool tube will help a helluva lot XD if you have a decent 4" inline fan you'll have no problems with heat, so long as your ballast etc is outside your cab and your venting away from your cab (as in my carbon filter was way outside my box mounted on the shed shelf, it then moved inside... didn't make much difference lol.

 

[budballer]

yes i think im gonna go 250 hps in a Bake-a-round with a diy a-wing reflector. fan thats adjustable for 150-200 cfm with a 1-2 ft long carbon filter and some ONA at the end for good measure. Now how big should those inputs be.. haha

 

[brotherjericho]

That's where being inventive comes in.
I manage to pull off a 250w scrog in 3ft height with HID and hydro, so does Matchbox. It's all about the design and, above all, the air exchange.
Not knocking you, good suggestion on the PLLs (They also generally seem to put out more lumens than nomal cfl but fixtures are expensive), but I think this can be done with HID, producing better results.

Yeah, in that tight of a head room, Scrog or Sog is pretty much a necessity with PLLs, and great for it as they can spread the light evenly throughout the space. Not sure if a single source like HPS would do as well in those particular setups.

 

[Matchbox]

Yeah, in that tight of a head room, Scrog or Sog is pretty much a necessity with PLLs, and great for it as they can spread the light evenly throughout the space. Not sure if a single source like HPS would do as well in those particular setups.

That's why you dish the screen to match the available area of the light if you dish it thoroughly enough every part of the screen is the same distance away from the bulb with the rest of the light being reflected back to the effective 'sweet spot' XD

 

[budballer]

is the dish really a good idea? idk it seems weird to me in that the plant is forced to veg more and flower less?

 

[Matchbox]

yes the dish is a brilliant idea.... no matter how long you veg, flower takes the same amount of time (maybe a bit less 'cause the plant is more mature and can kick start flowering faster).

More veg = Bigger yields

Generally speaking, providing you don't screw up somewhere in between.

If you want the logic; Flower time is pretty much genetically set per strain + phenotype so you can veg, technically, for years and years, and people do for mothers. Anyway, think about it, the bigger the plant (longer vegged) the more growth tips you'll have and each of these tips makes bud. Providing you have the root space and light penetration/spread, all of the bud sites will finish at roughly the same time, because you have more you'll yield more...

It works out, the extra week or 3 of veg (compared to 'normal') more than makes up for itself in final weight, just depends if you have the patience.

 

[cues]

yes the dish is a brilliant idea.... no matter how long you veg, flower takes the same amount of time (maybe a bit less 'cause the plant is more mature and can kick start flowering faster).

More veg = Bigger yields

Generally speaking, providing you don't screw up somewhere in between.

If you want the logic; Flower time is pretty much genetically set per strain + phenotype so you can veg, technically, for years and years, and people do for mothers. Anyway, think about it, the bigger the plant (longer vegged) the more growth tips you'll have and each of these tips makes bud. Providing you have the root space and light penetration/spread, all of the bud sites will finish at roughly the same time, because you have more you'll yield more...

It works out, the extra week or 3 of veg (compared to 'normal') more than makes up for itself in final weight, just depends if you have the patience.

You know as well as I do Match, there is more to it than that. It's also about matching your flower time to your veg/cloning time and stretch for the variety you are growing.
For example, If you get it right, you will be flowering a 8-week flowering plant. In that time, you will be taking a clone (2 weeks rooting) and vegging for 6 weeks in a smaller area under less light to replace the flowering plant at harvest.
Hit it perfect and the stretch will fill the larger area in the flowering room.

 

[Matchbox]

I was just generalizing for a single grow, I don't have space for cloning so all my grows are from seed, from scratch XD

 

[cues]

Blimey, not even a windowsill you can use for a propogator and a couple of plants pots? That's all I've done. I do have a tiny veg cupboard I knocked up with a couple of cfl's and a pc fan but haven't bothered as it's summer. I took a couple of clones and now have them on the windowsill in coco. I feed with my res waste. I plan to wash the coco off then transplant into hydro when this lots finished.
Must be a nightmare starting from seed every time.