Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
It doesn't change the fact that if you smoke cannabis and you are a christian, you are going to go to hell.
Where do you think weed fits into Christianity?
- Thread starter Psuedo
- Start date
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Into it's bowl... same place mine fits...
Dislexicmidget2021
Well-Known Member
covet not thy neighbors bowl,lest ye be a bogart,ye shall passeth it and it shall be good!Rollitup-04:20
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
It has advice for harvesters:
"Do not muzzle the dude who trimmeth out the green." cn
"Do not muzzle the dude who trimmeth out the green." cn
natwitgudvib
Member
Yes I agree we should resist these things but, god does not judge us (I think) on these acts, it is showing you that we will be open to sin if we are not careful. Mjane is something that puts you in a state that makes you think, contemplate, build philosophies. Are any of those Quotes from the mouth of the most High?
Im just saying its a lot simpler in my mind than people think. Remember how many have died at the hands of religion? In my mind all religions are the dividing factors.
The creator gave us free will, does it make sense for us to be sent to hell for smoking weed or doing as we feel? Ive read the bible once except for the book that accounts who fathered who. The one thing that stood out was love. So i go on and spread it while i toke.
PS
Judge not lest ye be judged or something like that
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
This thread still going?
Yeah it is hard for a lot of Christians today to admit they use weed.
It is like bringing a black girl home to your white family in Mississippi. Nothing wrong with it, but you will face some opposition.
Also I think Zaehet is trolling or trying to hard. Whenever another Christian talks to me about addiction, I tell them to start judging fat people in church. Go up to some of them and tell them to lose weight, that will go over well.
I know people arn't perfect, but just love others and be tactful when talking about what you believe, deaf ears dont listen. This applies to me as well. But I guess me saying that is judgemental in a way? I dont know. Why are we even here on these forums? I'm going back to work, not sure if post helped others...maybe? I'm not high right now, but sometimes I talk like I am, if that makes sense? Also my grammer is horrible, but it is spelt grammar, who says "gram-are"? lol Anyone still reading this? If you are, let me know cause I will think it is funny, yet most maybe half maybe some...wont? So weird.
Yeah it is hard for a lot of Christians today to admit they use weed.
It is like bringing a black girl home to your white family in Mississippi. Nothing wrong with it, but you will face some opposition.
Also I think Zaehet is trolling or trying to hard. Whenever another Christian talks to me about addiction, I tell them to start judging fat people in church. Go up to some of them and tell them to lose weight, that will go over well.
I know people arn't perfect, but just love others and be tactful when talking about what you believe, deaf ears dont listen. This applies to me as well. But I guess me saying that is judgemental in a way? I dont know. Why are we even here on these forums? I'm going back to work, not sure if post helped others...maybe? I'm not high right now, but sometimes I talk like I am, if that makes sense? Also my grammer is horrible, but it is spelt grammar, who says "gram-are"? lol Anyone still reading this? If you are, let me know cause I will think it is funny, yet most maybe half maybe some...wont? So weird.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Being a christian, if you take what you read in the bible and twist it with your own interpretations, you are not fallowing the words of the bible, and you are not a christian.
If labeling yourself is something you take pride in, you would be considered "half a christian" if you take part in intoxication of any sort.
But remember, all you have to do is ask for forgiveness every single time after the fact, and if you believe, your sins against god will be forgiven and you can toke down again, and ask to be forgiven again, and again...
If labeling yourself is something you take pride in, you would be considered "half a christian" if you take part in intoxication of any sort.
But remember, all you have to do is ask for forgiveness every single time after the fact, and if you believe, your sins against god will be forgiven and you can toke down again, and ask to be forgiven again, and again...
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
Dude you are trollin
http://bible.cc/matthew/15-11.htm
Just spread some love, live healthy and let God worry about the judging
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
Cannabear you are everywhere man. That polar is mad addictive to look at sometimes.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Trolling or not, regardless of how you personally perceive it... If you want to label yourself as a christian, and you take verses of the bible that are easy to understand... and create your own interpretations of them in order to justify behaviors that the bible specifically orders you to NOT do...
Then you aren't a true christian, you are merely pretending that you are.
I would assume the christian god would not be happy with this.
Then you aren't a true christian, you are merely pretending that you are.
I would assume the christian god would not be happy with this.
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
I dont know man, what are you trying to achieve on this forum?
How many years have you studied Christian theology and have you read the bible throughout multiple times? If so, what English translation(s) have you read? In study groups have you discussed the moral ethics on intoxication? Studied the original ancient Greek and Aramaic words for these verses in the NT?
If so we can have a theology debate as long as it stays civil?
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
No thanks bro, i do appreciate it... but Ive grown tired of arguing about different translations of different bibles to those who are going to interpret them in whatever way they want.
I have read and studied theology and metaphysics, this is a list of the books with biblical origins that i have read and studied in order;
king james version
revised standard version
new international version
young's literal translation
luther's German bible
the vulgate
the septuagint
After the septuagint, i was completely burnt out... and started my journey to other forms of mysticism originating from different parts of the world. Buddhism is my favorite religion, Zen is my favorite philosophy, Sagan is my favorite astrologer, Russell my favorite philosopher... among many many other favorites.
Thanks man, but im going to decline the offer... and reinstate the fact that if you want to consider yourself a christian, when you become intoxicated (alcohol/cannabis/etc.) you are committing a sin according to "many" different versions of the bible.
And that no matter who you are, there is always a way to justify drug use within ones own mind regardless of what they choose to believe, or what they choose to label themselves as.
I have read and studied theology and metaphysics, this is a list of the books with biblical origins that i have read and studied in order;
king james version
revised standard version
new international version
young's literal translation
luther's German bible
the vulgate
the septuagint
After the septuagint, i was completely burnt out... and started my journey to other forms of mysticism originating from different parts of the world. Buddhism is my favorite religion, Zen is my favorite philosophy, Sagan is my favorite astrologer, Russell my favorite philosopher... among many many other favorites.
Thanks man, but im going to decline the offer... and reinstate the fact that if you want to consider yourself a christian, when you become intoxicated (alcohol/cannabis/etc.) you are committing a sin according to "many" different versions of the bible.
And that no matter who you are, there is always a way to justify drug use within ones own mind regardless of what they choose to believe, or what they choose to label themselves as.
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
Awww, but I had some really good pro points on marijuana in the bible.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Feel free to share, not even Gandalf can stop you.
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
Going through this thread reading the older posts, I feel the same way.
Shit man, I have been judged by obese people saying weed is damaging to my body. Also what is the likely hood that ingesting weed is going to kill you over time? Like 1 death in...I cant find one. But its said that over 800 people in the US die each day from obesity related problems.
Also I'm trying to find any where in history where marijuana has been banned/punished in either Christian/non-Chrisitian communities...I cant find any, maybe someone can help? I only find most of the new "western" world banning it and punishing people.
I have my theories about the government/pharma companies control on drugs, but I find it sad how Christians over look things that are really damaging to our bodies, but never research mj for its real healing abilities.
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
So you do want a friendly debate? lol
It is going to take a bit and I need to hit the post office, but what are your main findings in the bible against marijuana specifically? If you are including it in passages about drunkness or intoxication, are you open to opposition with other daily things Christians take that make them intoxicated or buzzed? If someone is slightly high/intoxicated do you consider that a sin? What are your views on prescription drugs containing opiates, is taking them a sin in from your view?
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
I have yet to find anything that specifically relates to cannabis in any bible i have read or researched.
Post #19 gives many examples, of which are few (if you would like, i can share more... but would prefer not to) about how intoxication is bad in regards to christianity. Just as i said before, one can justify anything they want to do within their own minds.
Like you are trying to say; is there a difference between "buzzed" and "intoxication"? Well, the bible didn't necessarily include a chart to help us understand the boundaries between drinking one beer/taking one hit and drinking ten beers/smoking a blunt.
In my opinion, if someone is to claim the label of christian, they should assume that if this chart is not in the bible, intoxication is intoxication regardless if you take one toke, one drink, or twenty tokes, or twenty drinks.
You see, what we are debating right now is the biblical terms and interpretations. If you take everything the bible says at face value, you are what they call a true christian, the devout. If you create your own interpretations, or fallow others interpretations in order to justify behaviors, you would be classified as an apologist of the christian faith.
For example, as modern society emerges, so does the technology, and our ability to synthesize new mind altering/intoxicating drugs. Take opiates for example. If you are of the christian faith and would like to be labeled as such, even if you are in mass amounts of pain you would refuse to take the drug. If you can't deal with the pain, and ingest an intoxicating drug...regardless of individual morality, the bible states that this is a sin... that you must repent, ask for forgiveness, and do your best to avoid the situation again.
Is taking any intoxicating drug a sin? According to the bible, yes. Do i think so? No, and i would like to elaborate.
Now, if you look up the definition of "sin" you will find mulitiple definitions, so in order to keep from confusion i have chosen this one.
Sin: commit a sin; violate a law of God or a moral law.
To commit a sin, you must violate the "law of god" or more specifically "the law of men" If you have ever thought deeply about morality, and what is deemed to be right or wrong, good or bad... you will have come up with the correct solution, which is;
That morality is subjective, that our sense of what is right and what is wrong is completely based upon the environment that we grew up in, and how we were raised (the same can be said about our core set of beliefs/indoctrinations)
To try to define what right and wrong is, "most" of us would claim that what is injurious/harmful towards the individual/species is BAD. And what is beneficial/helpful the individual/ species is GOOD.
Understand, that some people have been grown up in an environment, and by parents who have indoctrinated them with the idea that what causes harm is good, and what causes pleasure is bad.
Take a look at the universe, the whole thing, its almost imposable to imagine the immensity of it. Take a look at black holes, gamma radiation, super nova, the collapse of stars, the way two galaxies can merge with one another. Do you think the universe has inherent good or bad when dealing with these awesome forms of nature? Is it bad to have a black hole, but good to have a super nova?
No, there is no bad or good. What is bad or good is completely dependent on our own individual perceptions of life, which is dependent on the environment we grew up in, and the way we were raised and what we were taught to think is right and wrong.
Right and wrong are non existent, intelligence/critical thinking gives birth to the perception of right and wrong.
According to the bible becoming intoxicated is a sin, you must repent, ask for forgiveness, and do your best to avoid the situation again. I'm not sure how many strikes god gives, but i would assume, from what i have read...not very many.
According to my own perceptions of my subjective view on morality and what i deem is right and wrong, good or bad... becoming intoxicated is YOUR choice, and just so long as you are not causing harm to anyone but yourself, i don't give a damn what you do.
Post #19 gives many examples, of which are few (if you would like, i can share more... but would prefer not to) about how intoxication is bad in regards to christianity. Just as i said before, one can justify anything they want to do within their own minds.
Like you are trying to say; is there a difference between "buzzed" and "intoxication"? Well, the bible didn't necessarily include a chart to help us understand the boundaries between drinking one beer/taking one hit and drinking ten beers/smoking a blunt.
In my opinion, if someone is to claim the label of christian, they should assume that if this chart is not in the bible, intoxication is intoxication regardless if you take one toke, one drink, or twenty tokes, or twenty drinks.
You see, what we are debating right now is the biblical terms and interpretations. If you take everything the bible says at face value, you are what they call a true christian, the devout. If you create your own interpretations, or fallow others interpretations in order to justify behaviors, you would be classified as an apologist of the christian faith.
For example, as modern society emerges, so does the technology, and our ability to synthesize new mind altering/intoxicating drugs. Take opiates for example. If you are of the christian faith and would like to be labeled as such, even if you are in mass amounts of pain you would refuse to take the drug. If you can't deal with the pain, and ingest an intoxicating drug...regardless of individual morality, the bible states that this is a sin... that you must repent, ask for forgiveness, and do your best to avoid the situation again.
Is taking any intoxicating drug a sin? According to the bible, yes. Do i think so? No, and i would like to elaborate.
Now, if you look up the definition of "sin" you will find mulitiple definitions, so in order to keep from confusion i have chosen this one.
Sin: commit a sin; violate a law of God or a moral law.
To commit a sin, you must violate the "law of god" or more specifically "the law of men" If you have ever thought deeply about morality, and what is deemed to be right or wrong, good or bad... you will have come up with the correct solution, which is;
That morality is subjective, that our sense of what is right and what is wrong is completely based upon the environment that we grew up in, and how we were raised (the same can be said about our core set of beliefs/indoctrinations)
To try to define what right and wrong is, "most" of us would claim that what is injurious/harmful towards the individual/species is BAD. And what is beneficial/helpful the individual/ species is GOOD.
Understand, that some people have been grown up in an environment, and by parents who have indoctrinated them with the idea that what causes harm is good, and what causes pleasure is bad.
Take a look at the universe, the whole thing, its almost imposable to imagine the immensity of it. Take a look at black holes, gamma radiation, super nova, the collapse of stars, the way two galaxies can merge with one another. Do you think the universe has inherent good or bad when dealing with these awesome forms of nature? Is it bad to have a black hole, but good to have a super nova?
No, there is no bad or good. What is bad or good is completely dependent on our own individual perceptions of life, which is dependent on the environment we grew up in, and the way we were raised and what we were taught to think is right and wrong.
Right and wrong are non existent, intelligence/critical thinking gives birth to the perception of right and wrong.
According to the bible becoming intoxicated is a sin, you must repent, ask for forgiveness, and do your best to avoid the situation again. I'm not sure how many strikes god gives, but i would assume, from what i have read...not very many.
According to my own perceptions of my subjective view on morality and what i deem is right and wrong, good or bad... becoming intoxicated is YOUR choice, and just so long as you are not causing harm to anyone but yourself, i don't give a damn what you do.
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your post ZS. I havent read it all but I will get to it at some point.
I want to mention that there are a lot of things in my personal life that I am not sure are sins or not and weed is one of them. What I do know is that God is compassionate and that I am not hurting others or myself, and He did make the plant.
It might be an excuse to disobey, but then again I personally find it hard to be convicted for eating a plant that isn't mentioned as a sin in the bible. I mean, this shit grew everywhere and in their society back 2000 years ago, they had wine, but no weed? And nothing mentioned about it at all?
Anyways, we all have our own moral code and even Christians don't agree with how we should live our lives today, probably why there are thousands of denominations. But I do understand your moral code of how Christians should live and your code seems very legalistic. It isn't that it is a bad thing, but from what I gather from your last post, taking one drink and it being a sin is a little bit of a stretch for me personally.
I mean Jesus made 90-120 gallons of wine for a wedding, I can't see anyone not getting a good buzz from that. Also it was considered the "best" wine, so we know that stuff had to be potent, plus for anyone that has had "jewish wine" they know what I'm talking about.
I want to mention that there are a lot of things in my personal life that I am not sure are sins or not and weed is one of them. What I do know is that God is compassionate and that I am not hurting others or myself, and He did make the plant.
It might be an excuse to disobey, but then again I personally find it hard to be convicted for eating a plant that isn't mentioned as a sin in the bible. I mean, this shit grew everywhere and in their society back 2000 years ago, they had wine, but no weed? And nothing mentioned about it at all?
Anyways, we all have our own moral code and even Christians don't agree with how we should live our lives today, probably why there are thousands of denominations. But I do understand your moral code of how Christians should live and your code seems very legalistic. It isn't that it is a bad thing, but from what I gather from your last post, taking one drink and it being a sin is a little bit of a stretch for me personally.
I mean Jesus made 90-120 gallons of wine for a wedding, I can't see anyone not getting a good buzz from that. Also it was considered the "best" wine, so we know that stuff had to be potent, plus for anyone that has had "jewish wine" they know what I'm talking about.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
If you want details and examples read my latter post, but the point i am making is this one thing.
There is no inherent good or evil. Good and evil does not exist. It only exists within the mind of the beholder, it is subjective... completely dependent on the environment we grew up in, the way we were raised, and the things we were taught.
And that, being a former individual who was raised on the christian faith... asking myself these questions and doing my own research without letting my emotions get in the way, and without giving the words the bible states my own interpretation... that according to the bible becoming intoxicated is a sin, you must repent, ask for forgiveness, and do your best to avoid the situation again.
I like you because i never hear you name calling, and ive never seen you contradict yourself, and a couple times ive seen you correct yourself when you were proven to be wrong, instead of doing what most do, either avoid it or direct an attack on someone else.
You really should read my latter post carefully until it makes sense to you.
I remember when i first started studying all of the different bibles, i was sickened by what i read. So i decided to switch to another religion, a nicer one like Buddhism sounded nice. But eventually... you get tired of pretending, well, at least i did.
There is no inherent good or evil. Good and evil does not exist. It only exists within the mind of the beholder, it is subjective... completely dependent on the environment we grew up in, the way we were raised, and the things we were taught.
And that, being a former individual who was raised on the christian faith... asking myself these questions and doing my own research without letting my emotions get in the way, and without giving the words the bible states my own interpretation... that according to the bible becoming intoxicated is a sin, you must repent, ask for forgiveness, and do your best to avoid the situation again.
I like you because i never hear you name calling, and ive never seen you contradict yourself, and a couple times ive seen you correct yourself when you were proven to be wrong, instead of doing what most do, either avoid it or direct an attack on someone else.
You really should read my latter post carefully until it makes sense to you.
I remember when i first started studying all of the different bibles, i was sickened by what i read. So i decided to switch to another religion, a nicer one like Buddhism sounded nice. But eventually... you get tired of pretending, well, at least i did.
VILEPLUME
Well-Known Member
I don't know man, I guess we will just have to disagree on this one.
But I have studied many other religions. I also lived with Tibetan monks in northern China for awhile.
We both have very different paths and while I would love for you to regain your faith in Jesus, I know that probably wont happen. Just as you would like me to live my life something similar to the way you explained. But I think we both know that it wont happen.
I love to learn and I am very interested in others, so I dont view any of these conversations as a waste.
On a side note, I am trying to be less of an asshole on these forums. I have very strong anti-war beliefs and I think I may sometimes be over zealous in my actions sometimes. What I do try now is to be a better example and maybe give some good advice to people.