Thought crimes?

[Samwell Seed Well]

Okay.

Example - A non gay person is randomly assaulted by somebody and suffers a theft of $100 and a beating. A gay person is assaulted by a homophobe and suffers a theft of $100 and a beating.

You would assign greater restitution to the gay person for their loss, than the non gay person. In that regard they have "extra rights" .

your assuming the person doing the assaulting knows the guy is gay and has targeted him on purpose for this reason, and your also assuming to court is to stupid to figure this out

and ya if he choose to assault this person for being gay he should be charged with a more serious punishment, premeditated crimes get more time then non, now if its just coincidence then no he should not receive more time

im really confused at how you are confused , after you said you want equal rights for all, you have the right to be a bigot and the law has a right to punish you for acting on your stupidity just like any crime

 

[Rob Roy]

WRONG

Both are examples of theft

But if the gay person was a victim simply becuase he is gay
then it is a hate crime
Restitution to the victim is the same, but the punishment for the perpetrator is increased
But you already know that

Now back to the question i have posed

What extra rights do victims of Hate crimes have?

The right for more "restitution" via extra punishment for the perpetrator of the crime. The crime isn't the thought or the motive it is the ACTION, i.e the loss of the $100 and the beating.

To be clear, I do not condone or practice bigotry. Friends and members of my family include gays and people of many races. Racism and homophobia is pretty stupid, so are strawman arguments. But I still maintain that a person should be able to think what they want, even thoughts that you or I might disagree with. I'm simply not in favor of punishing "intent" .

Also I understand the defintion of a "hate crime", but I think it is flawed because part of the punishemt for the crime in your scenario is for an action and part is for a thought.

I've answered your questions now it's your turn....So which other crimes of "thought" would you punish?

 

[ChesusRice]

The right for more "restitution" via extra punishment for the perpetrator of the crime. The crime isn't the thought or the motive it is the ACTION, i.e the loss of the $100 and the beating.
To be clear, I do not condone or practice bigotry. Friends and members of my family include gays and people of many races

And the victim gets what out of this again?
The rest of your post is irrelevant
and actually gets you 2 spaces on the racist bingo card

 

[kelly4]

WRONG

Both are examples of theft

Not if the beating was the motive.

 

[ChesusRice]

Not if the beating was the motive.

Beaten and robbed
one was a hate crime
one wansn't
there is a difference of intent

So i will ask you the same question I asked Rob ROy

What extra rights do victims of hate crimes have?

 

[kelly4]

So i will ask you the same question I asked Rob ROy

What extra rights do victims of hate crimes have?

I've never said that they have extra rights...
I have said that I don't beleive in harsher punishments for the reason for a crime, if the crime is the same.

 

[ChesusRice]

I've never said that they have extra rights...
I have said that I don't beleive in harsher punishments for the reason for a crime.

So rape of children shouldnt have higher punishments?
How about acts of terror?
what about killing someone?
manslaughter should be treated the same as 1st degree murder?

 

[kelly4]

So rape of children shouldnt have higher punishments?
How about acts of terror?
what about killing someone?
manslaughter should be treated the same as 1st degree murder?

Yes, it should, but not based on the childs skin color...or the terror recipients skin color.

As far as the manslaughter/1st degree murder question.....WTF? I know you're smarter than that. Such a stupid question is insulting...see post #166 where I say "if the crime is the same".

 

[ChesusRice]

But why should the penaltys for rape of one be harsher than the rape of another?

Your basic argument is the laws shouldnt gauge punishments on intent or victims

 

[kelly4]

But why should the penaltys for rape of one be harsher than the rape of another?

Your basic argument is the laws shouldnt gauge punishments on intent or victims

Vulnerability.

 

[ChesusRice]

Vulnerability.

Anyone who is a victim
Was obviously vulnerable

 

[kelly4]

Anyone who is a victim
Was obviously vulnerable

Are you going on record as saying all victims have the same amount of vulnerability?

 

[ChesusRice]

Are you going on record as saying all victims have the same amount of vulnerability?

Are you going on record you think hate crime laws are racist?

 

[missnu]

I will go on record saying I think hate crimes are racist...simply because racism is treating people differently based on their color...so hate crimes being called hate crimes is racist..people kill people...white people kill white people, and brown people, and black people, and yellow people, and brown people kill white people and brown people, and black people, and yellow people...

I think if a crime is heinous it should carry a greater sentence...like if you kill someone in some terrible way that was, or wasn't race driven...it shouldn't matter.

 

[ChesusRice]

When you target someone for the race you are targeting our society

 

[beardo]

Are you going on record you think hate crime laws are racist?

yes........

 

[desert dude]

Considerable disparity in application of hate crimes. Are white people 28 times more racist than black people?

"Analysis of the 1999 FBI statistics by John Perazzo in 2001 found that white violence against black people was 28 times more likely (1 in 45 incidents) to be labelled as a hate crime than black violence against white people (1 in 1254 incidents)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_States

 

[ginwilly]

Are you going on record you think hate crime laws are racist?

of course. Jim Crowe wanted separate but equal type laws too and his were also racist.

 

[ChesusRice]

DD your filling out that racist Bingo cArd real quick
Another square for the reverse racism charge

 

[desert dude]

DD your filling out that racist Bingo cArd real quick
Another square for the reverse racism charge

So, you agree that white people are 28 times more racist than black people? If the ratio were reversed, i.e. blacks charged 28 times more frequently than whites, what kind of bingo card would you fill out?