What's better, synthetics or organics?

greennewfie

Active Member
i will journal it with pics for everyone to see ill post a link here in the next few days if anyone wants to see!!
i to have a N def starting a little along with everything else in the forest around here lol,
so im gonna try something cheap and easy to find like shultz or MG tomato fert
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
people try yo make it balck and white IMO you cant have one without the other. in all organic nute there are gonna be some alreadt active and basically the same thing a chemical nute.

MJ is a weed and does not need an overabundance of nutes it is know as a "water stealer" they like to grow fast and deep strangling off nearby plans, in other words expansive root sytem. these types of root do best when under fed and under watered, because thats how they grow well in nature they strive to survive.

in nature you can find inorganic nutrients everywhere take Dol. lime and rock phosphate both are natural but no organic.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
i will journal it with pics for everyone to see ill post a link here in the next few days if anyone wants to see!!
i to have a N def starting a little along with everything else in the forest around here lol,
so im gonna try something cheap and easy to find like shultz or MG tomato fert
mg is good shit, get the powdered dissolving kind, 1/4 strength, store inside of a tupperware it willl turn into a liquid over time when it does this it is no longer any good takes about a year or 2 though in open air)
 

MuddyOne

Member
yep me too im having to use a ton of N material just to keep the def away its pricier i will be getting some grow formula soon to combine with a high P tea in flower.
The biggest problem I've seen with the organic N sources is they attract critters at the point when critters will still eat your plants. The fish emulsions attract raccoons, which are the worst because they will climb a fence. Soy bean meal or extract, another high n source tends to attract mice, which wont hesitate to strip your lower branches. I prefer to attract the mice lol, at least there isn't a chance of total destruction, and the lower branches don't typically amount to too much anyways.

The year was started using only teas, but they just weren't getting it done. Ended up using all my tea mix mixed with soy meal as a top dress, which worked reasonably well. High n guano (Mexican I believe) also worked pretty well, but they just seemed to want more N than I could give them. It may have a lot to do with the organic sources not being readily available. Before considering synthetics, I had dreams of a custom made high N compost using all of the ingredients mentioned above.
 

MuddyOne

Member
mg is good shit, get the powdered dissolving kind, 1/4 strength, store inside of a tupperware it willl turn into a liquid over time when it does this it is no longer any good takes about a year or 2 though in open air)
Ive heard MJ LOVES the red label MG tomato food. it's dirt cheap too. That particular product is what actually started this whole debate for me. I was told a low low dose (less than 25% of whats recommended) every single watering,as opposed to a stronger weekly feeding is best.
 

BigJon

Well-Known Member
I'm such an organic snob that I don't think there's a difference between Miracle Gro and Fox Farms. People are always like "Don't use MG. MG will kill your plants. It will taste like chemicals." Well shit, FF taste like chemicals to me too. Just flush and it'll be all good.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
Ive heard MJ LOVES the red label MG tomato food. it's dirt cheap too. That particular product is what actually started this whole debate for me. I was told a low low dose (less than 25% of whats recommended) every single watering,as opposed to a stronger weekly feeding is best.
yep thaats the stuff they got in a powdered concentrated.

wouldnt water it every watering unless your doing a soiless soil of some sort.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
I'm such an organic snob that I don't think there's a difference between Miracle Gro and Fox Farms. People are always like "Don't use MG. MG will kill your plants. It will taste like chemicals." Well shit, FF taste like chemicals to me too. Just flush and it'll be all good.
well flushing is only really required if you where using too much nutes in the first place the best growth happens right on the edge of deficiency and just enough, the need for flushing comes from using too much and there being excess n the plant that it stores away.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
The biggest problem I've seen with the organic N sources is they attract critters at the point when critters will still eat your plants. The fish emulsions attract raccoons, which are the worst because they will climb a fence. Soy bean meal or extract, another high n source tends to attract mice, which wont hesitate to strip your lower branches. I prefer to attract the mice lol, at least there isn't a chance of total destruction, and the lower branches don't typically amount to too much anyways.

The year was started using only teas, but they just weren't getting it done. Ended up using all my tea mix mixed with soy meal as a top dress, which worked reasonably well. High n guano (Mexican I believe) also worked pretty well, but they just seemed to want more N than I could give them. It may have a lot to do with the organic sources not being readily available. Before considering synthetics, I had dreams of a custom made high N compost using all of the ingredients mentioned above.

organic N sources can be slow to break down like i said om pretty liberal with them even with the plants in flower.

oohh mice? thats a sure way to get mites.
 

1sttimeguy

Well-Known Member
Ive heard MJ LOVES the red label MG tomato food. it's dirt cheap too. That particular product is what actually started this whole debate for me. I was told a low low dose (less than 25% of whats recommended) every single watering,as opposed to a stronger weekly feeding is best.
IMAG0390.jpg


MG tomato food 10-10-10 since it went outside at 3 weeks old (June 1st). Started at 1/4 strength every 2nd-3rd watering now it gets it 7/8 strength every 2nd watering and it's been loving it like that for the last 3 weeks.This plant is currently totally root bound and measures 36" tall (as of last night).

This is my first grow so I can't tell you how it tastes but time will tell, I intend on laying off all nutes 3 weeks before anticipated harvest.
 

MuddyOne

Member
Been lucky enough to not deal with any insects other than the occasional fungus gnat and a grass hopper or aphid here and there. They are just good food for thr pet spiders, got at least on on every plant. He enjoys watching them grow almost as much as he does the plants.
 

BigJon

Well-Known Member
well flushing is only really required if you where using too much nutes in the first place the best growth happens right on the edge of deficiency and just enough, the need for flushing comes from using too much and there being excess n the plant that it stores away.
For me, any bit of synthetic chemical is too much.

Dont get me wrong though. I do have one plant, I nicknamed experimental GDP, that is All-Purpose for veg and generic walmart 15-30-15 for bloom. I just mean even if I'm using it at quarter strength, I'm flushing.

Better safe than sorry.
 

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
organics is healthier......synthetics give you bigger yields imo......Organic anything is always best if you can manage it.
 

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
i will journal it with pics for everyone to see ill post a link here in the next few days if anyone wants to see!!
i to have a N def starting a little along with everything else in the forest around here lol,
so im gonna try something cheap and easy to find like shultz or MG tomato fert
just use Miracle Gro Miracid.....it has a 30-10-10 it will fix a N deficiency fast
 

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
the organic versus chemical thing again.....in my opinion as i have grown both...the results from organic were only a little better...i think the plant doesnt care if the nitrogen is of an organic source....u see nitrogen is nitrogen ..doesnt matter were it came from...same goes with ALL the other majors and micros..one nitrogen is not better than the exzact same other nitrogen!!!!!...the organic had an edge as far as less watering...thats it thats all.....
not organic versus chemical....that would be quite a contradiction imo
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
I have been managing to have zero animal problems with my organics...guerrilla growing also..the key is to feed right before a rain ..and spray ground with neem..it masks the alaskan fish fert smell...and synthetics can attract anumals also..not as much as organics but I have had animals in the past dig up plants after feeding with synthetics....I am all organic now..cheaper than synthetics and same results imo.
 

MuddyOne

Member
Cheaper than synthetics? I suppose if you are sourcing your own amendments it can be, but man oh man are the hydro shops organics not cheap.
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
nothing in hydro shops are cheap..except the free lighters they give away at the counter....I buy most of my organics from walmart//lowes and garden centers...really try to avoid hydro stores at all costs.
 

BigJon

Well-Known Member
If I really had to, I could do a whole organic grow with free chicken and pigeon guano and horse, sheep, or goat manure. There's a lot of agriculture in my neighborhood and they would all appreciate me helping to clean up their fields. I get free oyster shells from the Chinese buffet. You can make an annual trip to the beach to get fresh kelp or you can use nori sushi wraps like I do (I'm sure nobody on this forum will be agreeing with me there...yet.) Grandma's unsulfurred molasses is less than $3 at Walmart. The nori is about the same price adn the pack can last a month.

Organic is SUPER CHEAP!
 
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