The US Election of 2012 defies logic

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
The US Presidential Election 2012

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This is a US election that defies logic and brings the nation closer towards a one-party state masquerading as a two-party state.
The Democratic incumbent has surrounded himself with conservative advisors and key figures — many from previous administrations, and an unprecedented number from the Trilateral Commission. He also appointed a former Monsanto executive as Senior Advisor to the FDA. He has extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, presided over a spiralling rich-poor gap and sacrificed further American jobs with recent free trade deals.Trade union rights have also eroded under his watch. He has expanded Bush defence spending, droned civilians, failed to close Guantanamo, supported the NDAA which effectively legalises martial law, allowed drilling and adopted a soft-touch position towards the banks that is to the right of European Conservative leaders. Taking office during the financial meltdown, Obama appointed its principle architects to top economic positions. We list these because many of Obama's detractors absurdly portray him as either a radical liberal or a socialist, while his apologists, equally absurdly, continue to view him as a well-intentioned progressive, tragically thwarted by overwhelming pressures. 2008's yes-we-can chanters, dazzled by pigment rather than policy detail, forgot to ask can what? Between 1998 and the last election, Obama amassed $37.6million from the financial services industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. While 2008 presidential candidate Obama appeared to champion universal health care, his first choice for Secretary of Health was a man who had spent years lobbying on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry against that very concept. Hey! You don't promise a successful pub, and then appoint the Salvation Army to run it. This time around, the honey-tongued President makes populist references to economic justice, while simultaneously appointing as his new Chief of Staff a former Citigroup executive concerned with hedge funds that bet on the housing market to collapse. Obama poses something of a challenge to The Political Compass, because he's a man of so few fixed principles.
As outrageous as it may appear, civil libertarians and human rights supporters would have actually fared better under a Republican administration. Had a Bush or McCain presidency permitted extrajudicial executions virtually anywhere in the world ( www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AMR51/047/2012/en ), expanded drone strikes and introduced the NDAA, the Democratic Party would have howled from the rooftops. Senator Obama the Constitutional lawyer would have been one of the most vocal objectors. Under a Democratic administration however, these far-reaching developments have received scant opposition and a disgraceful absence of mainstream media coverage.
Democratic and, especially, some Republican candidates, will benefit massively from new legislation that permits them to receive unlimited and unaccountable funding. This means a significant shift of political power to the very moneyed interests that earlier elections tried to contain. Super PACs will inevitably reshape the system and undermine democracy. It would be naïve to suppose that a President Gingrich would feel no obligations towards his generous backer, Sheldon Adelson, one of the country's most influential men. Or a President Santorum towards billionaire mutual fund tycoon, Foster Freiss. (Santorum emerged as the most authoritarian candidate, not the least for his extreme stand against abortion and condom sales.) Or a President Paul, whose largest single donor, billionaire Peter Thiel, founded a controversial defence company contracting to the CIA and the FBI. Last year it was caught operating an illegal spy ring targeting opponents of the US Chamber of Commerce. In our opinion Romney, despite his consistent contempt for the impoverished, is correctly described as the weather vane candidate. He shares another similarity with Obama. His corporate-friendly health care plan for Massachusetts was strikingly similar to the President's "compromise" package. The emergence of the Tea Party enables an increasingly extreme GOP to present itself as middle-of-the road — between an ultra right movement with "some good ideas that might go a bit too far" and, on the other side, a dangerous "socialist" president.
The smaller non-Tea parties provide the only substantial electoral diversity — virtually unreported — in their Sisyphean struggle against the two mountainous conservative machines. Identity issues like gay marriage disguise the absence of fundamental differences and any real contrast of vision. Since FDR, the mainstream American "Left" has been much more concerned with the social rather than the economic scale. Identity politics; issues like peace, immigration, gay and women's rights, prayers in school have assumed far greater importance than matters like pensions and minimum wages that preoccupy their counterparts in other democracies. Hence the appeal of Ron Paul to many liberals, despite his far-right economics.
Our earlier assertion stil holds: that Ron Paul may yet emerge as the last person left standing at the Republican convention. His tenacious supporters are unnerving GOP headquarters by grasping control of the party apparatus in a growing number of states, and suing the National Party Chair and various state parties for the right to vote freely at the convention — in other words, the right to vote for Ron Paul. With Paul as presidential candidate, the Republicans could expect something that Romney wouldn't deliver: a significant crossover vote from Democrats.
If Romney succeeds in his struggle to consolidate party support but goes on to lose the election, it would hardly be devastating for mainstream Republicans. During a second term of Obama, they would no doubt continue to frame the debates.
The Tea Party leader will be included here when one is selected.
This chart may alter if new policy positions emerge during the campaign. For further information on the chart, please see our FAQs, especially these ones.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
it only defies logic if you believe that Republican and Democrat mean radically different ideas. most Republican leaders and Democrat leaders agree on the broad strokes of their individual schemes.

Republican NeoCon : all people controlled by a plutocracy of the moneyed elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

Democrat Socialists : all people controlled by an intellectual elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

The Money Trust and the Bankers : all people controlled by a plutocracy of the moneyed elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

Plain Old Socialists: all people controlled by a plutocracy of the politcally correct elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

The Corporatists: all people controlled by a plutocracy of the moneyed elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

The Fascist Socialists: All people controlled by the Dear Leader, the Dear Leader knows best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

The Hardline Religious Left: all people controlled by the church. the church knows best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks. and send them some sweet young girls

The Hardline Religious Right: all people controlled by the church. the church knows best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks. and send them some smooth young boys.

The Race Baiters: All people are controlled according to their race. The Racial Purity Council (Al Sharpton,, Morris Dees and Jesse Jackson) knows best, and honkeys should STFU and get back to their menial tasks. and send them some white women

The White Supremicists:
All people are controlled according to their race. The Racial Purity Council (David Duke, Robert Byrd and Uncle Ruckus) knows best, and darkies should STFU and get back to their menial tasks. and sing us some nice work songs.

[video=youtube;kkO9NcWzK9g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkO9NcWzK9g[/video]

You presume that bush and obama had different ultimate goals, and this is incorrect. their goals are the same, just with a different flavour jelly filling.

when your goal is control, the right man for the job is the same asshole no matter which particular agenda you are pushing. thats the flaw in your premise.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
it only defies logic if you believe that Republican and Democrat mean radically different ideas. most Republican leaders and Democrat leaders agree on the broad strokes of their individual schemes.

Republican NeoCon : all people controlled by a plutocracy of the moneyed elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

Democrat Socialists : all people controlled by an intellectual elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

The Money Trust and the Bankers : all people controlled by a plutocracy of the moneyed elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

Plain Old Socialists: all people controlled by a plutocracy of the politcally correct elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

The Corporatists: all people controlled by a plutocracy of the moneyed elite. the elite know best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

The Fascist Socialists: All people controlled by the Dear Leader, the Dear Leader knows best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks.

The Hardline Religious Left: all people controlled by the church. the church knows best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks. and send them some sweet young girls

The Hardline Religious Right: all people controlled by the church. the church knows best, and the plebs should STFU and get back to their menial tasks. and send them some smooth young boys.

The Race Baiters: All people are controlled according to their race. The Racial Purity Council (Al Sharpton,, Morris Dees and Jesse Jackson) knows best, and honkeys should STFU and get back to their menial tasks. and send them some white women

The White Supremicists:
All people are controlled according to their race. The Racial Purity Council (David Duke, Robert Byrd and Uncle Ruckus) knows best, and darkies should STFU and get back to their menial tasks. and sing us some nice work songs.

[video=youtube;kkO9NcWzK9g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkO9NcWzK9g[/video]

You presume that bush and obama had different ultimate goals, and this is incorrect. their goals are the same, just with a different flavour jelly filling.

when your goal is control, the right man for the job is the same asshole no matter which particular agenda you are pushing. thats the flaw in your premise.
and your fix to this problem is ????
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
and your fix to this problem is ????
our constitution, as written and properly amended (which means the 16th and 17th amendments are invalid) the elimination of the illegal federal reserve program, and elimination of most of the "New Deal" the "Great Society" and obamacare.

we would then have a federal government whose sole power is derived from the states and the people.
taxes would be levied to fund the government by the states, not by the unassailable power of distant washington.
any power not expressly delegated to the congress would be reserved to the people and the states
senators would be selected by state governments, not by the plebiscite so states would once again have a seat at the table rather than be simple servants to the mighty imperial bureaucracy
states would be able to succeed or fail based on their own efforts and ideas,, and upon failure, the state would be reformed by the people, not eternally floated by the benevolent hand of federal departments of whatever.
our "army" would once again be a small professional corps of officers and non-coms charged with ensuring militia readiness, rather than a massive bureaucracy charged with policing the world.
our navy would receive propper oversight from congress to ensure they can perform their mission (protecting US ships from pirates,, and being ready to defend the nation while the militia is called up)
the coast guard would secure our coastal borders, and the militia and marine corps would train on our land borders to ensure that border security was a top priority
no more DEA EPA FDA USDA FBI CIA ore any other alphabet soup agency unless the congress empowers it (with constitutional authority they actually have) and funds it with visible and understandable taxes
no income tax on persons, only corporations (non-person entities) which can e taxed based on their lack of civil rights, and the many benefits they gain through incorporation (like immortality and limited liability)
Tarriffs to protect US industries and farms from cheap slag dumped by foreign merchants to depress our economy
no more debt financing


its all right there in the constitution once you push past all the crap layered on by the courts, lawyers, assholes, grasping politicians, selfserving corporate entities, and faceless mandarins since the 1900's.

the "fix" is repairing our broken system using the original schematics and diagrams left by the founders of this nation, with the help of the states and the people, not by continuing to do more of the same shit that broke the country in the first place.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Where's this said cotton paper?
it's the constitution. it's a common misconception that the declaration of independence and the constitution were written on hemp paper, but in fact only a few of the printed circulars of the declaration were printed on hemp paper. most of the drafts and final copies were written on rag paper,, which was predominantly cotton (in england it would have been linen rag, but the colonies dont roll like that)
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
it's the constitution. it's a common misconception that the declaration of independence and the constitution were written on hemp paper, but in fact only a few of the printed circulars of the declaration were printed on hemp paper. most of the drafts and final copies were written on rag paper,, which was predominantly cotton (in england it would have been linen rag, but the colonies dont roll like that)
I thought the first draft was written on Jefferson's hemp paper?
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
The graph is where it belongs now.
those silly graphs are as worthless and interweb IQ tests and horoscopes. the questions are so nebulous,, and the available responses are so few that nobody can throw down an accurate answer to anything.

the creator's bias plays more importance in how you are aligned than anything else.
 

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Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
those silly graphs are as worthless and interweb IQ tests and horoscopes. the questions are so nebulous,, and the available responses are so few that nobody can throw down an accurate answer to anything.

the creator's bias plays more importance in how you are aligned than anything else.
Every test I've taken labeled me a free market anarchist.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Every test I've taken labeled me a free market anarchist.
theres no such animal as a free market anarchist. anarchy precludes markets, there are only robbers and the robbed.

having a market requires a meeting place free from the threat of violence where possessors of marketable materials can display and trade their goods without fear of immediate robbery. Most markets also feature an accepted medium of exchange, such as coins, notched tally sticks,, or other currency,, because you may want my corn but i may not want to trade directly for 15 live chickens,, or a stack of buffalo hides, so i trade for a representative of the value, and move on over to the blacksmith's to get a new plow,, which he would be unlikely to trade for a bunch of corn, but he may desire charcoal from the woodcutter, who would have no use for a plow, but has a hankering for fried chicken.... without a sufficient level of stability (usually provided by some form of overarching authority, such as a tribal chief's warriors, a liege lord's war band, or a walled city state) no market can exist.

thus anarchy and anarchists preclude markets.

you are probably totting up a remarkably low tolerance for authority figures, taxes, and structure, this makes you a libertarian, not an anarchist. anarchism and it's many delightful sub-genres have become the re-branding of marxism, with less exhortations to proletarian revolution and more insistence on total liberty without restraint save the ones you put upon yourself,, which would necessarily devolve into an authoritarian and eventually (they hope) socialist/marxist state which could then evolve into true communism and the workers paradise.

mountain men, frontiersmen, trappers, traders, traveling tinkers and gypsies are all very much the heroic model that the new gritty re-boot of marxism tries to capture, but in reality it attracts people who do not and could not tend to their own survival under the conditions anarchism creates, thus ensure the demand that SOMEBODY do SOMETHING to fix the anarcho-whateverism,, resulting in,, of course, a marxist socialist totalitarian state "For The Children" when somalia finally gets it's shit in order, it will most likely become a moslem socialist revolutionary state, like iran, or pre-invasion iraq. (bet you didnt know that iran was a socialist state didya? so was iraq under the bathists, and so remains syria for the duration of the current regime)
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
My stoner ass forgot to ask where you got cotton from? Your hemp comment side tracked me. I always thought it was animal skin parchment?
check the library of congress website, they discuss the rag paper (which at the time was predominantly cotton in the new world) made from a mixed bag of worn cloth fibers, which results in a strong soft durable paper which was far less expensive and far more useful than parchment (finely scraped and cured lambs hide) parchment also is notorious for it's reluctance to hold inks, which is why after the invention of rag pulp paper parchment became a toy for the church and the wealthy while serious business was done on paper made from hemp, spinner's castoffs (short fibers that cannot be spun into thread for cloth) and even worn out clothing (hence the name rag paper) Hemp paper at the time was rather uncommon despite what you may have heard, as the machine for manually braking the stalks to extract the useable fiber was not invented till 1815. (invented by thomas jefferson would you believe!) making hemp too expensive for anything but the immediate needs of sailing ships, and spent hemp from sailing vessels (ship rag, junk and oakum) was unsuitable for paper as it was invariable impregnated with tar,, pitch and oils to prevent rot at sea.

the national archives documents are in fact handwritten manuscripts drawn on parchment, but the editing copies and all the original drafts were written on paper which came from a variety of sources. the lithographs which were the copies sent to the individual colonies for their ratification were printed (more like stamped) predominantly on rag paper which are the most common original copies of the declaration and constitution found in libraries both public and private as well as museum collections. the rag paper was made primarily from cotton, while the linen which was more popular in europe was scarce in the colonies.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes,

An authority or regulatory body need not be government. Such things can be free market in nature. Government leads to inefficiency and apathy.

A good example is lifeguards. There is this private company and government endorsed Red Cross were examined. The private company does random audits of all lifeguards, but mostly their own. The longer a Red Cross lifeguard had been certified, the lazier they became and would not pass even a Red Cross audit. While the private company had higher audit scores always well above passing, with well fewer failing. The reason is these privately certified lifeguards had a higher level of confidence and the certification company would bear some of the responsibility if their lifeguard was neglegent and would alter their certification methods unlike the Red Cross.

Private regulatory entities can also be replaced by a competitor who would like that role. It would be like adopting another country's DMV, say France. Have you ever been to a California DMV? I would take the French version if it meant shorter lines, not arrogant employees, and was ran like a real business. Ever notice how the "employees" have an entitlement attitude?

I see replacing those services with private ones as essential. What choice do you have if you don't like our current DMV? Our current DMV is counter-intuitive to a free market. Even threat of it's replacement would've fixed it, but now the only solution is replacement. But now you can't do that as easily with government or at all.

The silly arguement against what I suggest is corruption and syndicates. But what is going on now? What we have is fucking rosey, and not corrupt bullshit? Even though we have dispensaries, a war machine comes and overturns with force what the free market wants. A vice isn't a criminal act, but you can commit them on or because of one. Just like with non-vices, a crazy spouse, for example, become delusional or jealous and harm or kill their partner. Getting rid of vices and treating them like criminal offenses solves nothing and makes the situation worse. Government and religion never understand this no matter the evidence.
 

BA142

Well-Known Member
Gary Johnson isn't that far right IMO. He's more of a centrist.....fiscally conservative and socially liberal
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I have found that if I answer the questions honestly the graph tends to be spot on. The problem comes when it is required that someone else answer for the politician in the graph. We can't really know how they would answer so I am distrustful of graphs prepared for others.
 
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