just ate my first magic mushrooms...

monkeybones

Well-Known Member
You are wasting your time if you do not case, your flushes will be sparse and you won't get as many mushrooms.
i'm still not convinced that's the case if your fruiting chamber has tonnes of air exchange and 95%+ humidity

that is the environment which the casing is there to provide. i know it provides additional nutrients but that is a factor with an obvious outcome... and i'm thinking more along the lines of mushroom health than yield.

i can see why in a poor fruiting chamber environment, a casing would yield better results

but are casing layers doing something, besides providing additional nutrients, which a really good FC can't do for cubensis? please elaborate
 

monkeybones

Well-Known Member
You don't have to be the driver :)

It's fun having a sober driver when you're tripping at night. It feels so weird in a car. My favorite time to do this is christmas with all the lights and stuffs. Never went 140mph... but I have drove an ATV through some trails on a high lsd dose in the middle of the night. Fun stuff watching the trees fly by you. And yes, I did wreck into a tree at one point. Only going about 5 mph, but felt like 100 :)
fair enough. being the passenger could be fun.

but it kind of makes me think of tripping on a roller coaster or something. i figure it would just be really scary more than anything. i suppose it depends on the type of person

This has been my experience as well. Also I've had more than a couple batches of shrooms make me puke hard. Never had that happen with good ole Lucy.
i guess i'm just the organic type :weed:
 

morfin56

New Member
i'm still not convinced that's the case if your fruiting chamber has tonnes of air exchange and 95%+ humidity
You will be convinced if you do a side by side grow of 2 cased and 2 not.
I did and I was proud of the results.

More flushes, bigger flushes, more dense mushrooms, all in all it is way better then an uncased substrate.

I see were canndo is going with all his information, PF tek gives a horribly bad name to casings.
PF tek: don't case it is a waste of time. Bulk subs: case that shit!
 

monkeybones

Well-Known Member
More flushes, bigger flushes, more dense mushrooms, all in all it is way better then an uncased substrate.
see, this just seems like a necessary by-product of giving the substrate more nutrients and also making the humidity and air exchange basically automatic

but i can't argue with experience without any myself. i'll case my big substrate that i have colonizing, to get the most use i can out of it.

and fruit the bitty tupper-ware container i inoculated without a casing so i can hurry up and get on with the first trip already :P
 

DaSprout

Well-Known Member
Good job on the thread Mankey. I didn't think that it would turn into a good discussion piece. But it has. On prior posts. I have told people to start off with the pcorn tek, go with a transfer, and do a monotub. This way they could actually get a look at what was happening with the whole lifecycle thing. And also practice with their own personal sterilization techniques. Blah blah blech. In the end I would have to say that casing is the easiest, and better way to end off with. Canndo has posted some great methods to use to ensure a really good outcome. I have also done what Morphin has suggested and do them both side by side. My cased ones were easier to manage. And they last longer. I started off with a case. I should have started with a straight mono. Just so that I could see how things become what they will be. Basically so that I could see what's happening beneath the casing layer.

Good luck there boyos.
 

stonestare

Active Member
You'd most likely crash and die.
That would be a stupid move if you really tried that.
I have done it many times and I still do it today. I have been tripping for 20 years and I am comfy with it. Its alot like smoking weed at first its overload then you learn to function while you are trashed. My car is well built and if something happens I will just go off into a field. I do it at night for that reason I do not want to get another person involved. Yes my car has 5 point harness and a roll cage that is nhra certified so if I loose it I will walk away
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
i'm still not convinced that's the case if your fruiting chamber has tonnes of air exchange and 95%+ humidity

that is the environment which the casing is there to provide. i know it provides additional nutrients but that is a factor with an obvious outcome... and i'm thinking more along the lines of mushroom health than yield.

i can see why in a poor fruiting chamber environment, a casing would yield better results

but are casing layers doing something, besides providing additional nutrients, which a really good FC can't do for cubensis? please elaborate
Firstly, your casing layer supports microbes that enhance your fruiting - in the case of other sorts of mushrooms, they might not fruit at all without the presence of those ancilary microbes, of course the mushroom you want will fruit in sterile conditions but they grow better in the presence of certain bacteria.

Secondly, the musrhoom tends to grow in the extents - at the very outside of things and in irregular places on the casing. This, you will find in many species, that the micro climates and nooks of the casing layer support primordia far better than other places. If you grow mushrooms on the substrate alone you are attempting to grow on what would be otherwise "overlay" or interwoven mycelia. The primordia tend not to like such relatively hardened layers of mycelia and will grow sparsely.

What you are doing when you introduce a casing layer is entraining the mycelim to grow roughly parallel, this is the ropey growth you may see in very favorable conditions - rhyzomorphic growth that has the most chance of primordia formation. I have seen cases where in good rhyzomorphic mycelia, there were literaly 50 pins per square inch. This is rarely possible on substrate alone


When you pick your mushrooms you tend to take some of the underlying material with the "roots" of the mushroom. Some varieties are tenatious, some not so much but all of them leave less damage to the casing as it would to the substrate. The casing also tends to protect primordia that are primed for a second flush where you will see that when growing on substrate, the mycelia has to start from scratch every time.

Of course there is the water content, that can be adjusted to just below field level before every flush, giving the mushroom the optimum amount of liquid each flush.

Well made casing has very little nutrient value, if it did not, the mushroom would treat it as it does substrate and overlay it as well - this is a mistake many make and this may be the source of the debate over casing vs not casing. A well cased and cared for casing will yield abundant fruit even in no fruiting chamber at all because only the very top loses moisture.

If your casing becomes contaminated, unless the contamination occurs at the boundary of the casing and the substrate, you can scoop the contamination out and cover the hole with a basic substance like soda or salt and you will still get a decent yield. This is much harder to do with substrate alone. I have managed to get huge yields from well cased straw - and I mean huge, where the caps won't open correctly because they are so close to each other - sometimes 3 or 4 to the square inch. I was able to pick them all and get a second flush that is about the same density 5 days later. I have never managed to get that many with substrate alone and I have never seen pictures of such a thing.

What you are doing is a race - you are racing contamination that is inevitable. You can get a few mushrooms per flush from non-cased, and then wait 7 or 8 days to do it again, perhaps 7 times. Or you can properly orchestrate your cased substrate - growing your mycelium through 3/4 inch (or more, I've gone as much as 2 inches) - takes a week or two but it takes a week or more in order for the substrate only crowd to force their flush. If you properly orchestrate your pin set you will be astounded at what you get for the work. If you have a deep enough substrate layer (4 - 9 inches) you will not see an abort - every pinhead will finish and as I said your yield will be huge. Someone posted a picture of a fruiting room with what looked like a hundred squares of substrate in here recently. I asked why he wanted to work that hard. He could have gotten the same yield he did with far less than half the substrate and in far less time if he had made larger substrate masses and cased them and orchestrated his pinset with light, drop in temperature (yes I know, they say it doesn't matter - it does), and fresh air exchange. Believe me.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
see, this just seems like a necessary by-product of giving the substrate more nutrients and also making the humidity and air exchange basically automatic

but i can't argue with experience without any myself. i'll case my big substrate that i have colonizing, to get the most use i can out of it.

and fruit the bitty tupper-ware container i inoculated without a casing so i can hurry up and get on with the first trip already :P

A good casing layer has very little nutrient in it. I know of many people who think casing is no good because they wind up with overlay on their casing, effectively giving their grow no more advantage than if they had not cased at all. Orchestrate your pin sets, grow your mycelium to just below the surface - an eighth of an inch. Take care because some strains tend to coast, if you see some beginning to overlay beat it down with some spray and drop your temperature as much as 10 degrees below your growing temp. Hit that thing with light THE SAME DAY, and do your fresh air at the same time. give it 3 days of that cold temp then bring it right back up. If you do this correctly you will be the envy of everyone on this site.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
see, this just seems like a necessary by-product of giving the substrate more nutrients and also making the humidity and air exchange basically automatic

but i can't argue with experience without any myself. i'll case my big substrate that i have colonizing, to get the most use i can out of it.

and fruit the bitty tupper-ware container i inoculated without a casing so i can hurry up and get on with the first trip already :P
Clear your mail
 

monkeybones

Well-Known Member
you've more than convinced me.

I have never tried psilocybin before, so maybe you can understand why my curiosity led me down the impatient road of fruiting the substrate naked

I feel confident that despite this I can be prepared with grain jars to put the knowledge you have imparted to good use before I run out of mushrooms from the tray I am fruiting right now

for what it is worth, I do have the chamber set up with FAE, 99% humidity and between 72 and 74.5 F. also it is getting sunlight from a window, and a lamp at night. it may not produce en masse like a cased substrate might, but hey man. i'm not growing to pay the bills you know?

perhaps there are things i can learn from watching the uncased substrate form pins and fruit which I would not learn from the cased substrate - perhaps a glimmer of good from the situation

i really appreciate you taking the time to outline all of the benefits of the casing layer. it blows my mind that you could have 50 primordia per square inch. i especially like that the casing layer preserves these primordia between flushes
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
you've more than convinced me.

I have never tried psilocybin before, so maybe you can understand why my curiosity led me down the impatient road of fruiting the substrate naked

I feel confident that despite this I can be prepared with grain jars to put the knowledge you have imparted to good use before I run out of mushrooms from the tray I am fruiting right now

for what it is worth, I do have the chamber set up with FAE, 99% humidity and between 72 and 74.5 F. also it is getting sunlight from a window, and a lamp at night. it may not produce en masse like a cased substrate might, but hey man. i'm not growing to pay the bills you know?

perhaps there are things i can learn from watching the uncased substrate form pins and fruit which I would not learn from the cased substrate - perhaps a glimmer of good from the situation

i really appreciate you taking the time to outline all of the benefits of the casing layer. it blows my mind that you could have 50 primordia per square inch. i especially like that the casing layer preserves these primordia between flushes

Sunlight is dangerous, keep the lamp and lose the direct sunlight. You only need to give your mushrooms a little bit of light, they say 12/12 but that really isn't necessary, you can trigger fruiting in as little as a few milliseconds, but if you want to train your mushrooms to grow in a certain direction, you will want to give them an hour or two.

One more thing - for others who are reading. Why would a person who works valiently to produce the most, best, and purest marijuana, using every technique at his disposal want to do less when he grows mushrooms? Were I to say "I have this thousand watt light, I have a 4 x 5 tray and all the nutrients I need, but because I am not really much of a smoker, I'm only going to grow two plants to 20 inches and give them about 8 hours of light a day through flower, you might not say it but I am sure you would think - now what is the point of his grow at all?
 

atidd11

Well-Known Member
Canndo. Can i case with compressed coir. Idoń have notjing else to use. I have some soil that mixed? I was thinking maybe microwave it for 5 minutes to kill everything so theres no nutrients
 

monkeybones

Well-Known Member
One more thing - for others who are reading. Why would a person who works valiently to produce the most, best, and purest marijuana, using every technique at his disposal want to do less when he grows mushrooms?
three reasons;

i want to eat some cubes, really bad, really really bad. i didn't want to try marijuana my first time this bad

also, i am unconcerned with final weight for this tray

and, to a lesser extent.. it's not a very fair comparison. there is a whole lot more money wrapped up in MJ cultivation




i'm fine with you making an example of me. however it would be a better one were i doing it out of sheer laziness, or apprehension towards change and learning
 

stonestare

Active Member
Hey do with it as you want. When yo want more weight case it you are right BUT you can damn sure not case it and get a hand full. It is your garden and tip toe through the tulips as you please were just trying to overload you on your first grow. Hang in there you have learned alot and your about to get through your first run with a thousand times more knowledge than you thought you had.I need to get going I have a zombie concert coming up in Oct and I am about to run out of mushies, that will be a 10 gram eat in the parking lot then go in at 4 pm when the gates open and walk my ass right to the front of the stage being glad for that rail because I am going to be one tore up duck!!!!
 

monkeybones

Well-Known Member
thanks man. hope you enjoy that concert

you're right, I not only learned more than I expected to but have accomplished more than I expected to my first time around

I hoped canndo wouldn't be offended that I didn't case my substrate, and was mortified when I saw how elaborate of an explanation he had written on casings, just 1 day after I popped my substrate into the FC without one.

but it's not like the lesson went to waste. this is my first and will be my last uncased bulk substrate, and that is because I now have a (pseudo)comprehensive knowledge of why they're there. thanks to canndo.

I dunno man, straight out questioning the point of my whole project because I didn't go all out. yowies

when I first came into this subforum asking about 'shrooms, I didn't even know you could grow them yourself

I am fortunate to have online acquaintances who are willing to take the time to teach me a thing or three
 

Trippy Mayne

New Member
some wild picked panaeolus olivaceus

got help identifying them at shroomery.org

downed about 15 grams of wet fresh ones

i'll let you guys know how it goes... kinda nervous :shock:
Tell me how that goes you'll be high as fuck and trippin balls at the same time please do let us know
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Canndo. Can i case with compressed coir. Idoń have notjing else to use. I have some soil that mixed? I was thinking maybe microwave it for 5 minutes to kill everything so theres no nutrients
Some people grow on coir. You won't kill nutrients in a microwave or anywhere else, and 5 minutes in a microwave will not kill contaminants.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
thanks man. hope you enjoy that concert

you're right, I not only learned more than I expected to but have accomplished more than I expected to my first time around

I hoped canndo wouldn't be offended that I didn't case my substrate, and was mortified when I saw how elaborate of an explanation he had written on casings, just 1 day after I popped my substrate into the FC without one.

but it's not like the lesson went to waste. this is my first and will be my last uncased bulk substrate, and that is because I now have a (pseudo)comprehensive knowledge of why they're there. thanks to canndo.

I dunno man, straight out questioning the point of my whole project because I didn't go all out. yowies

when I first came into this subforum asking about 'shrooms, I didn't even know you could grow them yourself

I am fortunate to have online acquaintances who are willing to take the time to teach me a thing or three


I'm not offended, Just trying to instruct others. You will be in awe soon enough, and your new ally will show you the way.
 
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