you have to pay $13.50 to vote in pennsylvania

[ChesusRice]

Here is how I interpret the militia clause.

Suppose that, instead of weapons, 2A was referring to books and the amendment was written: "An educated populace being necessary to a prosperous society, the right of the people to own and read books shall not be infringed". I would not interpret that that to mean that only educated people have the right to own and read books. I would not interpret that to mean that I have to have a library card to own and read a book. I would not interpret that to mean that all of my books must be kept in the library only to be checked out when the governor allows it.

Similarly, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.", does not mean that you must belong to a militia to keep and bear arms. The militia clause simply gives a good reason why people should be allowed to keep and bear, so that the people are accomplished in the use of arms, that's what "well regulated" means, if the need ever arises for the people to defend the security of the free state.

Bottom line no matter how you slice it
Everyone has a right to have firearms
EVERYONE
that includes felons
If you are too dangerous to be trusted with a gun
They should of never let you out

 

[ChesusRice]

Please show your source of information..... This is directly from the US GOV travel website

Since March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children – have been required to present a valid passport or passport card for travel into Mexico. While documents are not routinely checked along the land border, Mexican authorities at immigration checkpoints approximately 20 to 30 kilometers from the border with the U.S. will often conduct vehicle and document inspections and will require valid travel documents and an entry permit or Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM). All U.S. citizens entering by land and traveling farther than 20 kilometers into Mexico should stop at an immigration checkpoint to obtain an FMM, even if not explicitly directed to do so by Mexican officials. Beyond the 20-30 kilometer border zone, all non-Mexican citizens must have valid immigration documents (FMM, FM2, FM3 or FME) regardless of the original place of entry. Failure to present an FMM when checking in for an international flight departing Mexico can result in delays or missed flights as airlines may insist that a valid FMM be obtained from Mexican immigration authorities (Instituto Nacional de Migración, INM) before issuing a boarding pass.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

You need a valid Passport to get into the USA
Not mexico
and You NEED a tourist card if you plan to stay more than 72 hours or travel more than 20 kilometers
all you need to get a tourist card is
A credit card

 

[ChesusRice]

[h=3]Crossing the Border into Tijuana[/h]Crossing into Tijuana is really easy. If you're coming from the parking lots, just walk through a couple of metal turnstiles and you're in. Coming from the San Diego trolley, use the pedestrian bridge to get to the other side of the road and enter through the turnstiles. Our our handy Tijuana map will show you the way, or use our pictorial, step-by-step guide that shows you what to do every step of the way.
http://gocalifornia.about.com/od/casdmenu/a/tijuana_going.htm

 

[nontheist]

You need a valid Passport to get into the USA
Not mexico
and You NEED a tourist card if you plan to stay more than 72 hours or travel more than 20 kilometers
all you need to get a tourist card is
A credit card

Please show your source that says you do not need an ID to get past the border zone?

If you're driving, taking the bus or walking into Mexico, you can get a tourist card at the border inspection station/immigration office after showing your id or passport proving your US citizenship. You'll need to go to a bank to pay for the card (about $20) -- it will be stamped to show that you've paid. You will then return to the border immigration office to have the card stamped -- the stamp shows that you are in the country legally.

 

[ChesusRice]

Please show your source that says you do not need an ID to get past the border zone?

If you're driving, taking the bus or walking into Mexico, you can get a tourist card at the border inspection station/immigration office after showing your id or passport proving your US citizenship. You'll need to go to a bank to pay for the card (about $20) -- it will be stamped to show that you've paid. You will then return to the border immigration office to have the card stamped -- the stamp shows that you are in the country legally.

its 27 bucks
It is not mandatory
and you NEED a credit card to purchase it

 

[cannabineer]

Here is how I interpret the militia clause.

Suppose that, instead of weapons, 2A was referring to books and the amendment was written: "An educated populace being necessary to a prosperous society, the right of the people to own and read books shall not be infringed". I would not interpret that that to mean that only educated people have the right to own and read books. I would not interpret that to mean that I have to have a library card to own and read a book. I would not interpret that to mean that all of my books must be kept in the library only to be checked out when the governor allows it.

Similarly, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.", does not mean that you must belong to a militia to keep and bear arms. The militia clause simply gives a good reason why people should be allowed to keep and bear, so that the people are accomplished in the use of arms, that's what "well regulated" means, if the need ever arises for the people to defend the security of the free state.

I tend to concur. "Well-regulated" meant "in good tune"; in this instance, it meant that the shooter could hit at what [he] aimed.
Militia, in the parlance of the time, meant able-bodied sorts who could carry a weapon into combat. Not organized so much as organizable.
Interestingly, not all copies of the Bill of Rights have that confusing, annoying first comma. Without it, it is clear to me that the preceding clause justifies and does not restrict. Jmo.

Gotta go check to see if canndo has answered; I hope so. cn

<edit> so far ... "no canndo".

 

[Grandpapy]

Please show your source that says you do not need an ID to get past the border zone?

If you're driving, taking the bus or walking into Mexico, you can get a tourist card at the border inspection station/immigration office after showing your id or passport proving your US citizenship. You'll need to go to a bank to pay for the card (about $20) -- it will be stamped to show that you've paid. You will then return to the border immigration office to have the card stamped -- the stamp shows that you are in the country legally.

Just another tax, just another number assigned, for another gov. agency.

lets see,
SS#
Passport#
Voter ID#
Drivers license#
CC#
I don't know if this is enough.

I would think, opps, sorry, I shouldn't think that gov. agencies share info.

 

[ChesusRice]

Please show your source that says you do not need an ID to get past the border zone?

If you're driving, taking the bus or walking into Mexico, you can get a tourist card at the border inspection station/immigration office after showing your id or passport proving your US citizenship. You'll need to go to a bank to pay for the card (about $20) -- it will be stamped to show that you've paid. You will then return to the border immigration office to have the card stamped -- the stamp shows that you are in the country legally.

Here is a step by step guide into walking into Tijuana
WITH PICTURES
Notice the lack of anyone asking for identification
http://www.ericrench.com/MEXICO/TIJUANA/BORDER/BWALK/index.htm

 

[canndo]

Here is how I interpret the militia clause.

Suppose that, instead of weapons, 2A was referring to books and the amendment was written: "An educated populace being necessary to a prosperous society, the right of the people to own and read books shall not be infringed". I would not interpret that that to mean that only educated people have the right to own and read books. I would not interpret that to mean that I have to have a library card to own and read a book. I would not interpret that to mean that all of my books must be kept in the library only to be checked out when the governor allows it.

Similarly, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.", does not mean that you must belong to a militia to keep and bear arms. The militia clause simply gives a good reason why people should be allowed to keep and bear, so that the people are accomplished in the use of arms, that's what "well regulated" means, if the need ever arises for the people to defend the security of the free state.

You are ignoring the obvious. No other amendment has an explaination for its existance at all. It does not say "a well educated populace beinng necessary to the welfare of the state, the right to free speech shall not be abridged.

one should surmise that it was done on purpose and if so, the initial clause was not put there for background informational reaons but directly modifies the second clause in some way.

 

[nontheist]

its 27 bucks
It is not mandatory
and you NEED a credit card to purchase it

Bullshit, caught lying again. You can travel within the 12 miles(20 kilometers) of the freetrade zone in Mexico that's it, once you reach the border zone you cannot do anything else without a passport or US ID AND Official notarized birth certificate . If you go past this point without it and get detained for any reason they can officially shove a burrito in your ass. So sure you can visit the first 12miles in Mexico but you cannot cross the end of the border zone without ID.

TOURIST PERMITS:
All foreign tourists must obtain a tourist permit before traveling beyond the border zone. For those traveling into Mexico at Nogales, permits are available at the customs and immigration checkpoint at kilometer 21. For those entering Mexico at any other point in Sonora, the permit must be obtained at the border port of entry. Officers at the immigration checkpoints south of the border zone may ask to see a permit but cannot issue them.



To obtain a permit, you must have either a passport alone or a birth certificate and a driver's license. U.S. military id and voter id may also work in combination with a driver's license, although some traveler&#8217;s have reported problems using these two. The tourist permit costs 170 pesos per person (about $15) and must be paid to one of 27 banks listed on the form. Pay this whenever possible after entering Mexico's interior. The permit is also required if you are going to stay more than 72 hours in Mexico's border zone(12 mile freetrade zone), except in Puerto Penasco where the time limit does not apply.

 

[beenthere]

You are ignoring the obvious. No other amendment has an explaination for its existance at all. It does not say "a well educated populace beinng necessary to the welfare of the state, the right to free speech shall not be abridged.

one should surmise that it was done on purpose and if so, the initial clause was not put there for background informational reaons but directly modifies the second clause in some way.

And I would argue that if the explanation for it's existence was specific, it would read "the right of the militia to carry and bear arms" instead, it deliberately states the right of the people.

 

[cannabineer]

You are ignoring the obvious. No other amendment has an explanation for its existence at all. It does not say "a well educated populace being necessary to the welfare of the state, the right to free speech shall not be abridged.

one should surmise that it was done on purpose and if so, the initial clause was not put there for background informational reasons but directly modifies the second clause in some way.

I present this not knowing how you feel about Volokh, but he does argue that the justifying/operative clause construction has been used for some State versions of the First Amendment.
He also does a good job of demolishing the real threat to the 2nd Amendment, a non-individual or "collective" interpretation of "the people". Jmo. cn

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/common.htm

 

[ChesusRice]

Bullshit, caught lying again. You can travel within the 12 miles(20 kilometers) of the freetrade zone in Mexico that's it, once you reach the border zone you cannot do anything else without a passport or US ID AND Official notarized birth certificate . If you go past this point without it and get detained for any reason they can officially shove a burrito in your ass. So sure you can visit the first 12miles in Mexico but you cannot cross the end of the border zone without ID.

TOURIST PERMITS:
All foreign tourists must obtain a tourist permit before traveling beyond the border zone. For those traveling into Mexico at Nogales, permits are available at the customs and immigration checkpoint at kilometer 21. For those entering Mexico at any other point in Sonora, the permit must be obtained at the border port of entry. Officers at the immigration checkpoints south of the border zone may ask to see a permit but cannot issue them.



To obtain a permit, you must have either a passport alone or a birth certificate and a driver's license. U.S. military id and voter id may also work in combination with a driver's license, although some traveler&#8217;s have reported problems using these two. The tourist permit costs 170 pesos per person (about $15) and must be paid to one of 27 banks listed on the form. Pay this whenever possible after entering Mexico's interior. The permit is also required if you are going to stay more than 72 hours in Mexico's border zone(12 mile freetrade zone), except in Puerto Penasco where the time limit does not apply.

AND I SAiD YOU DONT NEED A ID TO GO INTO MEXICO
ARE YOU REALLY TOO STUPID TO READ YOUR OWN WORDS?

AND TO GET A TOURIST CARD ALL YOU NEED IS A CREDIT CARD
ThATS IT

YA DUMBFUCK

 

[beenthere]

AND I SAiD YOU DONT NEED A ID TO GO INTO MEXICO
ARE YOU REALLY TOO STUPID TO READ YOUR OWN WORDS?

AND TO GET A TOURIST CARD ALL YOU NEED IS A CREDIT CARD
ThATS IT

YA DUMBFUCK

Speaking of dumb fucks, the link you provided is 7 yrs old my friend. I just got back from Mexico and can tell you without a doubt you cannot cross the Mexico/US border to get back into the United States without a passport. That law changed in 2010, five years after your dumbfuck link!

So our own government requires any US citizen re-entering the country to purchase a passport!

 

[nontheist]

AND I SAiD YOU DONT NEED A ID TO GO INTO MEXICO
ARE YOU REALLY TOO STUPID TO READ YOUR OWN WORDS?

AND TO GET A TOURIST CARD ALL YOU NEED IS A CREDIT CARD
ThATS IT

YA DUMBFUCK

The border is 12miles thick in Mexico, your not officially over until you pass that point, so once you "cross the border" you need all legal identification. Keep trying, you fail on so many levels and apparently cannot read. Please show me from an official website the requirements for a Tourist card, its time to put this to bed (Ill give you a hint its a lot more than a credit card).

 

[Grandpapy]

Here http://www.nmborder.com/travel_mexico.html

 

[desert dude]

You are ignoring the obvious. No other amendment has an explaination for its existance at all. It does not say "a well educated populace beinng necessary to the welfare of the state, the right to free speech shall not be abridged.

one should surmise that it was done on purpose and if so, the initial clause was not put there for background informational reaons but directly modifies the second clause in some way.

This is the standard anti-gun stalking horse and has been for much of the last 50 years or so. It is utter rubbish. Fortunately, there is no longer any need to argue the point, it has been decided by SCOTUS in Heller and McDonald.

 

[beenthere]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

"Since March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens &#8211; including children &#8211; have been required to present a valid passport or passport card for travel into Mexico."

 

[ChesusRice]

Herehttp://www.nmborder.com/travel_mexico.html

and grandpappys link
again shows you do not need ID to cross into Mexico

 

[ChesusRice]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

"Since March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children – have been required to present a valid passport or passport card for travel into Mexico."

And your link says this
Since March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children – have been required
to present a valid passport or passport card for travel into Mexico. While
documents are not routinely checked along the land border, Mexican authorities
at immigration checkpoints approximately 20 to 30 kilometers from the border
with the U.S. will often conduct vehicle and document inspections and will
require valid travel documents and an entry permit or Forma Migratoria Multiple
(FMM). All U.S. citizens entering by land and traveling farther than 20
kilometers into Mexico should stop at an immigration checkpoint to obtain an
FMM, even if not explicitly directed to do so by Mexican officials. Beyond the
20-30 kilometer border zone, all non-Mexican citizens must have valid
immigration documents (FMM, FM2, FM3 or FME) regardless of the original place of
entry. Failure to present an FMM when checking in for an international flight
departing Mexico can result in delays or missed flights as airlines may insist
that a valid FMM be obtained from Mexican immigration authorities (Instituto
Nacional de Migración, INM) before issuing a boarding pass.