you have to pay $13.50 to vote in pennsylvania

Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
\ No, They claimed at the time that Republicans were commiting election fraud. The current pattern of abuse is widespread and obviously a concerted effort to reduce the number of votes at the cost of the poor, the elderly and students. The evidence is overwhelming. Beyond that, there is no explaination as to why these laws are being enacted so close to this election.
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The evidence is NOT overwhelming. You haven't proven your case. You may think you have, but that's only because you've already made up your mind. Voter ID is long overdue.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
I don't have to prove your statements wrong, it's you who must prove them correct. My doubt makes YOUR contentions suspect.
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That isn't how it works. I made a statement and you doubt it is correct - you are going to have to show us why you doubt it. I don't have to prove my correctness unless you show us something other than your "doubt". I gave you my numbers and I posted a portion of one of the Brennan reports on ID. Your turn.
 
MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
And that is the point - his opinion, being in the position he is in, matters. He is giving voice, he is specifying what we all are attempting to prove. We see evidence of misconduct with reference to voting in that state and he just happens to have the same opinion that we do. I consider that confirmation that our observations are correct. I can read - and he knows that PA voted Obama in 08 and it polls for obama with about the same percentage as the percentage forecast to be nullified by these new laws. You don't think this gives any credence to our argument?
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None.

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canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
1) You just did. 2) ???? 3)You're claiming your assumption proves your assumption. Not logical. 4)His statement didn't say any folks were turned away, just the opposite. They didn't know they would be turned away, the ones who did show up weren't turned away. It is entirely possible, and much more likely, they were just not inclined to vote.
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Well I'm lost.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
None.

............
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So two guys in positions to know, say something that agrees with what the evidence indicates and that has no bearing on the veracity of our statement. How do you determine what is real and valid MuyLoco? What exactly would it take to have you believe that Republicans are attempting to subvert the race?
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Yes, illegal names should be purged, but we know that Florida did more than that. O'keef's videos are altered in order to present falsehoods. He is a questionable "reporter" and has a penchant for the outlandish in favor of good solid journalism. I know you folks like to cling to that sort of thing (and in fact we folks enjoy Micheal Moore type antics as well as the next guy but I wouldn't use Moore as a basis for any of my aguements).
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"we know that Florida did more than that." Do we? I think not. We've heard claims from the Democrats, but they were unable to show a single instance of votes being suppressed. Of course there were plenty of votes that went uncounted and were destroyed, but it was at the demand of Al Gore's army of lawyers, not at the hands of Republicans. They didn't care to bring those up, did they?
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
The evidence is NOT overwhelming. You haven't proven your case. You may think you have, but that's only because you've already made up your mind. Voter ID is long overdue.
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If Id was "long overdue" because of a theoretical possiblity of widespread voter fraud, then why enact laws on the eve of this already contentious presidential election, futher, why laws enacted only by Republicans?

I will ask you the same question Red, what do you need to be convinced?
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
"we know that Florida did more than that." Do we? I think not. We've heard claims from the Democrats, but they were unable to show a single instance of votes being suppressed. Of course there were plenty of votes that went uncounted and were destroyed, but it was at the demand of Al Gore's army of lawyers, not at the hands of Republicans. They didn't care to bring those up, did they?
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Voter roll purges in Florida is case in point.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Bud, we had a fit last time because they attempted to commit fraud, we are having a fit this time for the same reason. Republicans have established a pattern of such fraud. You are saying that because such a pattern has been established it should be perpetuated.
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This is your argument? That Republicans are guilty because Republicans are guilty? I lived in Florida and I saw plenty of vote fraud, all done at the hands of the Democrats. That is the reason I switched from Democrat to Republican.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
The evidence is NOT overwhelming. You haven't proven your case. You may think you have, but that's only because you've already made up your mind. Voter ID is long overdue.
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I don't think Iv ever agreed with this guy before but God damn people, Voter ID is total common-sense in all countries except Yanky land.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
There is no fraud You know it I know it Several republicans are on record saying it is about suppressing votes So How about being honest and acknowledging it is what it is
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There quite obviously is fraud. "you know in your heart that I'm right and you're wrong" Lame to the extreme. Several? One is more like it. And that was just his motive, he doesn't speak for everyone, no matter how many times you say he does. You have no idea what honesty is. Do you think no one remembers how you fabricated a fake "search result" trying to connect me to Stormfront. You're a fucking liar and everyone here knows it.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
There quite obviously is fraud. "you know in your heart that I'm right and you're wrong" Lame to the extreme. Several? One is more like it. And that was just his motive, he doesn't speak for everyone, no matter how many times you say he does. You have no idea what honesty is. Do you think no one remembers how you fabricated a fake "search result" trying to connect me to Stormfront. You're a fucking liar and everyone here knows it.
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Awesome
Then list all the cases of vote fraud in the last decade
 
MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
So two guys in positions to know, say something that agrees with what the evidence indicates and that has no bearing on the veracity of our statement. How do you determine what is real and valid MuyLoco? What exactly would it take to have you believe that Republicans are attempting to subvert the race?
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A few Republicans saying or even if every fucking Republican came out and said the exact same thing, wouldn't change my mind on the common sense of ID verification to vote. If one or all of them think a "happy coincidence" would be less Democratic voters, that's their opinion. I've always felt it was the height of absurdity that all I ever had to do was say my name and address to vote. That's public information, any idiot on the street can obtain that info.

I don't care how they do it, I don't care if people have to go to the unbelievably difficult journey to the closest issuing office, I just know it makes sense. While there may be some who find it a nuisance, I say to them, tuff shit. You have to get your ass to a polling station to vote on a weekday, so getting to the DMV is no more of a burden than the act of voting itself. The argument that it is too much of a burden for some, yet those same people somehow find a way to get their asses to the polling center. The same people who can't get to the DMV are part of the extremely large percentage of the citizens who don't vote anyways.

With that said, I go back to my earlier posted quote, requiring proof of the RIGHT to vote, does not take away that right.
 
Grandpapy

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
None.

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Where can I get 13 dollars for this ID?
Right now my expenses are $22.00 per day
note, does not include 37.60 per day for meds that I haven't been able to purchased in 5 months.
I have not been able to work since Jan.
I have been living with a friend since Jan. who is very under standing and helps out whenever possible but nether of us have a car.
I'm about 40 miles from town so a taxi is out of the question, hitchhiking in a wheelchair is just too.... well you get it.
But willing to except a ride.
I was taught it was my duty to vote but for the life of me I cannot figure out why they make it so hard.
As a Boy Scout we would help elders and disabled to the poles.
Why are they throwing up hurdles in front elderly and disabled???
Why would they not consider me important enough to vote?
I paid my taxes when I was able to make money.
Seeing how I have been voting for 35 years, does that not count?
When did the land of the free become home of the slave?
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Out of context Non. I believe that "I know you folks" had something to do with O'keef and I added that "we folks" like Moore. It was intended to be a wry sort of point on equivelence between the two and the tendancy for us all to trust those that should not be trusted. Non, your post makes some sense, but laws are most often enacted after a problem is encountered and more than likely the laws that govern populations of people provide for time in which to comply. Furthermore, in some states, what most would consider acceptable ID has been rendered otherwise. There are large numbers of people on one of the states who will not know that they are unable to vote until they show their ID, Id that has been acceptable for their entire voting lives and are told that that ID is no longer valid. This alone would tend to negate your argument. I don't know that Obama has offered a "free pass" for illegal immigration. Yes, owning a firearm is a right and ID should not be required to posess it, but it may be in order to purchase - even so, I do not agree with those laws. Other than that single example, we use ID for transactions between ourselves and private businesses, they, along with other transactions with government entities are not rights. Vagrancy laws demanding that individuals on the street carry ID were long ago struck down as unconstitutional. The point is not that ID is a good idea for voters, the point is that the infliction, the weilding of ID requirements by Republican run states is obviously a ploy in order to alter this election. The arguments that you make would be reasonable in a situation where an election were not pending and those without "proper" Id were not so obviously democrat leaning.
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There is ALWAYS an election pending. You assume this is a ploy to alter the election, you have yet to prove it. Saying it is obvious merely indicates you are predisposed to believe it. Your assumption that those without ID are predominately Democrat leaning indicates you hold Democrats in low regard. You might want to reexamine your reasoning on that.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Uncle Buck sir..... If he is talking about the same ruling I am, there is no appeal as it was a SCOTUS case. They found that a state requring voter ID was not an undue burden on the population in spite of the facts surrounding the case.
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Trying to talk logically with a person who's favorite pastime is walking around the neighborhood with his pants full of shit is a waste of time.
 
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