raised christian, have some faith, but feel so fake in church...

[themanwiththeplan]

i believe in God (and generally a higher being and believe in some form of a continuation of existence upon death...just for the record) however i firmly do not believe in churches.

I really think the churches ideals are a bit twisted and off base with reality. for example they shun the idea of condoms (preggo/std risks) and don't teach young ones about sex or anything of the sort. their stance is "just dont do it till you married so theres nothing to learn here" and what happens? kids get out of the church lifestyle...end up having sex and getting preggo or stds because they werent educated on the topic.

idk how many teens i met in high school who came from catholic schools and ended up either one or the other within their first year in the public school system.

its not just their stance on sex for pleasure and pre marital sex...thats just a prime example.


lets not forget all the scammers out there who profit off of God. A lot of churches are crooked and the prime goal is making money off of your guilt.

lets not get too deep into the sex scandals where little boys (and less often but also girls) get molested by supposed holy members of society but thats another beef i have.

I feel some of those in the church setting are more messed up than the rest of us but were supposed to go to church every week and listen to them preach all these things they dont follow themselves?

If i didnt write what i put at the beginning of this message you'd swear i dont believe in god but i actually really honestly do. i just dont agree with those in control of god's forums around the world (or at least around the u.s.a)


i dont think you have to go to church to have a relationship with god. the relationship you have with god is within your soul and not within the four walls of a building.

amen?

 

[Zaehet Strife]

It's okay to disagree, I still love you. Your premise contains a tautology. Supernatural ideas can only be believed (perceived as true) if one believes. You are separating belief from the act of perceiving something as true. We can not separate the act of believing from accepting something as true if they mean the same thing. If we are to preserve your premise, then belief must mean something more. So, we must expand on the definition of belief. When we do, I think we see belief is intended to be a result of evidence, and that faith serves to delude rather than enlighten, with enlightenment being the goal of belief. So, supernatural ideas can only be percieved as true if one deludes themselves, while natural law is free to be believed. Belief is an action. What action is performed when we accept gravity? The act of knowing? Knowing is being familiar with information, or the result of capturing enlightenment through reasoning and experience, instinct, or intuition. Instinct and intuition do not involve beliefs, and I can be familiar with information without believing it. (knowing how to ride a bike) If I gain enlightenment through reasoning and experience, I believe it.

Your premise seems to force my conclusion, unless you can offer a definition of belief that agrees with faith, yet means something more than simply accepting something as true. Faith being motivation to accept something in the absence of any other reason, or in the face of doubt.

These are the sorts of interesting conversations we can have when everybody behaves as adults. True discourse is valuable. I have realized more about the world and myself in our last few exchanges than an entire thread from Chief has ever taught me.

Love you too bro, i understand now, and have learned a lot too. This was an awesome exchange of ideas, and sound reasoning. I can't give you another definition... i was using the word in the wrong way, i appreciate the way you helped me figure that out. Means a lot man, thanks again.

Plus rep if i had any more i could give you.

 

[cannabineer]

I'm a bit crestfallen that my bid to enter the exchange failed. cn

 

[420IAMthatIAM]

I havent been to church in a while...but i spoke to a friend about this. I felt i was the only one until.

My presence is the only real part ive consistantly brought to a church and even that i seem to alter to the best of my ability to blend in the most i can. Impressing people, especially ones with importance within the church, with "newfound discoveries of improvement" within myself have become my goal. I raise my hands and sing to the music to appear to have a more intense relationship with god. I pay attention to sermons on the outside, while inside thoughts of anything else take place. I have put more effort in impressing the church and its body then i have trying to impress my mother. Im sick of being what you want. My feelings have driven me to rebel, I would rather easily lie and be praised by everyone than to actually share my own sick and twisted feelings and be "that guy". I have been in and out of several churches and although i have met some awesome people with many churches in the right direction, i feel the church is not a positive place for me. Especially having a chameleon like personality to be able to blend in to many different environments. Church is too easy and good to be "played" I dont want that game in my cupboard anymore, i feel guilty under God. I truly long and desire the needs and wants of god, even though my faith has been wilting slowly for years. chime in haters, fakers, lovers, christians, jews, REAL church goers, etc.

Anyone else feel like this? similar? contrary? lets hear about it

http://youtu.be/3ejarAo6QhE

 

[Heisenberg]

I'm a bit crestfallen that my bid to enter the exchange failed. cn

Sorry, I took your post to be spectator commentary. You have such a humble way of presenting yourself.

 

[cannabineer]

Sorry, I took your post to be spectator commentary. You have such a humble way of presenting yourself.

I appreciate the compliment! cn

 

[NetGuruINC]

I havent been to church in a while...but i spoke to a friend about this. I felt i was the only one until.

My presence is the only real part ive consistantly brought to a church and even that i seem to alter to the best of my ability to blend in the most i can. Impressing people, especially ones with importance within the church, with "newfound discoveries of improvement" within myself have become my goal. I raise my hands and sing to the music to appear to have a more intense relationship with god. I pay attention to sermons on the outside, while inside thoughts of anything else take place. I have put more effort in impressing the church and its body then i have trying to impress my mother. Im sick of being what you want. My feelings have driven me to rebel, I would rather easily lie and be praised by everyone than to actually share my own sick and twisted feelings and be "that guy". I have been in and out of several churches and although i have met some awesome people with many churches in the right direction, i feel the church is not a positive place for me. Especially having a chameleon like personality to be able to blend in to many different environments. Church is too easy and good to be "played" I dont want that game in my cupboard anymore, i feel guilty under God. I truly long and desire the needs and wants of god, even though my faith has been wilting slowly for years. chime in haters, fakers, lovers, christians, jews, REAL church goers, etc.

Anyone else feel like this? similar? contrary? lets hear about it

You guys needs to check out "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsh. What ive learned is that there is NO SUCH THING as right and wrong, we create whats right and whats wrong with our own consciousness. GOD does not judge you on your daily activities, he is simply an observer. Believe it or not, we all chose to come here to earth (long story read the book) to "experience" what our consciousness already knows. Hitler went to heaven, I know it sounds crazy as hell, but he did. Every jewish person that died in the holocaust chose to experience that life before even coming to this earth. Now I know thats gonna touch alot of people in either the right or wrong way, but it is truth.

There is NO SUCH THING AS RIGHT AND WRONG. When people say "God is always forgiving" or "God is always good" people dont take it literally. It's like letting your kids out in the backyard to play, if the kid slips and falls, or bumps his knee, kids always cry like its the end of the world right? But the parent doesnt trip because the parent knows its just a little boo boo, and your in the safety of the backyard of our home.

This is what I mean when I say GOD is simply an "observer", he is watching us play, and watching us cry when we fall and bump our knee. People ask all the time "If there is a GOD then why doesnt he help innocent people?". Well there is your answer, because NOTHING bad can ever happen to us, we think "death" is a tragedy, and we cry like a little kid who has a boo boo. And its actually the best experience you will ever have on earth.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

Heis, i found this and thought i was relevent to the conversation we had.

 

[Heisenberg]

Heis, i found this and thought i was relevent to the conversation we had.

View attachment 2306209

Nicely said. I would add also that faith greases the wheels of pseudoscience, allowing people to accept logical mistakes and propaganda as evidence. My mother looks around the world can can not fathom it's complication arising by any other means than intention, religion then offers her an explanation which accommodates. That explanation then gives her motivation to reject explanations and to ignore criticism, religion then rewards that motivation by assigning it pride.

Accepting a belief also means accepting it's dispositions. If I accept that Jesus is divine, then I also accept that any criticism of his words is wrong. If I accept that faith is required to get into heaven, I also accept that anything trying to dispel my faith is dangerous to my going to heaven.

 

[Heisenberg]

You guys needs to check out "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsh. What ive learned is that there is NO SUCH THING as right and wrong, we create whats right and whats wrong with our own consciousness. GOD does not judge you on your daily activities, he is simply an observer. Believe it or not, we all chose to come here to earth (long story read the book) to "experience" what our consciousness already knows. Hitler went to heaven, I know it sounds crazy as hell, but he did. Every jewish person that died in the holocaust chose to experience that life before even coming to this earth. Now I know thats gonna touch alot of people in either the right or wrong way, but it is truth.

There is NO SUCH THING AS RIGHT AND WRONG. When people say "God is always forgiving" or "God is always good" people dont take it literally. It's like letting your kids out in the backyard to play, if the kid slips and falls, or bumps his knee, kids always cry like its the end of the world right? But the parent doesnt trip because the parent knows its just a little boo boo, and your in the safety of the backyard of our home.

This is what I mean when I say GOD is simply an "observer", he is watching us play, and watching us cry when we fall and bump our knee. People ask all the time "If there is a GOD then why doesnt he help innocent people?". Well there is your answer, because NOTHING bad can ever happen to us, we think "death" is a tragedy, and we cry like a little kid who has a boo boo. And its actually the best experience you will ever have on earth.

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You see, I read another book, and it said nothing Neale Donald Walsh says is true. I now have as much evidence against your theory as you have for it.

 

[mindphuk]

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You see, I read another book, and it said nothing Neale Donald Walsh says is true. I now have as much evidence against your theory as you have for it.

Neal Donald Walsh doesn't offer his own opinion, he is only explaining the facts as god told him.

 

[2180628097]

good thread,ty
I am a tad bit religious,but I believe living a spiritual life is where it is at for me.I could post my opinion but that will not help anything.I will post my experience and let it stand for itself.
24 years ago my head was full of crap.i was very angry and screwed up.i felt my childhood religion had failed me.The preachers conception of God,Jesus,or whatever did not work for me.I felt like a hopeless loser,and yes,a fake.
Here is a major problem I had
I was judging my insides by their outsides.Make sense?They appear to be happy,or have a great relationship with God ,but inside I felt like crap.I was comparing me to them.That is a game I cannot possibly win.I quit doing it.

One day a lady friend with whom I had talked too had a great idea.She said to me,why don`t you set all that stuff aside and start over with your own conception of God or a loving Creator?Wow,I had never thought of that,and I did not know I could.So,I tried.I did several exercises to help me get those old ideas out of my head.I got a piece of paper,and on the left side I wrote my old conception of God down.I drew a line down the middle of the page.On the right side,I wrote down all the things I wanted my conception of my creator to be.You know,the good stuff.I cut the paper in half on the line,discarding the left side.I folded up the right side and when I thought about praying or God,I used the right side of the page for help.It gradually worked,helping me to replace the old ideas that did not work for new ideas that did work.
a example of the things on my left side which did not work
judgemental
harsh
unforigivng
did not like me
did not do anything for me
kept score
up in the clouds watching
etc

on my right side my new things looked something like this

loves me
forgiving
wants to help me
does not keep score
is always there
is inside me
etc

so,that helped me start on a new relationship with my Creator with my own conception ,not some preachers.
In the past 24 years,I have come to believe the spiritual life is about relationships
between you and me
my Creator and me
and me and me

the best way I have found to find happiness is to harm no one but to try to help anyone who crosses my path daily,with no strings attached,and no judging.
Happiness comes from right living,not from a Church on Sunday morning.
I try to live right,daily.If something bugs me,I try to take care of it asap,freeing my mind to be happy today.
To me,my Creator has all Power,and if He/She/It truly does love me,I have no fear about anything in life.I just do what is set in front of me today.
I consider what other people do and Churchs do is "none of my business".My business is to keep close to my Creator and help others,and that provides self confidence and happiness for me,and Independence from this world.

Is it worng to smoke a little?I do not think so.
My creator made this world and al that grows in it.it is here for a reason.

I hope this helps you find your journey thru life more pleasant somehow

Tommy

I havent been to church in a while...but i spoke to a friend about this. I felt i was the only one until.

My presence is the only real part ive consistantly brought to a church and even that i seem to alter to the best of my ability to blend in the most i can. Impressing people, especially ones with importance within the church, with "newfound discoveries of improvement" within myself have become my goal. I raise my hands and sing to the music to appear to have a more intense relationship with god. I pay attention to sermons on the outside, while inside thoughts of anything else take place. I have put more effort in impressing the church and its body then i have trying to impress my mother. Im sick of being what you want. My feelings have driven me to rebel, I would rather easily lie and be praised by everyone than to actually share my own sick and twisted feelings and be "that guy". I have been in and out of several churches and although i have met some awesome people with many churches in the right direction, i feel the church is not a positive place for me. Especially having a chameleon like personality to be able to blend in to many different environments. Church is too easy and good to be "played" I dont want that game in my cupboard anymore, i feel guilty under God. I truly long and desire the needs and wants of god, even though my faith has been wilting slowly for years. chime in haters, fakers, lovers, christians, jews, REAL church goers, etc.

Anyone else feel like this? similar? contrary? lets hear about it

 

[GreatwhiteNorth]

Nice post.

Welcome to RIU.

 

[newbyy]

well church or no church you can do what you want. if you don't want to go to the church. then do not

 

[2180628097]

Nice post.

Welcome to RIU.

thank you greatwhitenorth
I appreciate the welcome

 

[cannabineer]

Numbers, this is not a swipe, but it does sound to me like you created your own concept of a Creator à la carte. My question is ... what qualities that are beyond your choice and influence do you ascribe to a Creator, how, why? cn

 

[carl.burnette]

I usually dont reply to these sorts of thread but your entry really hit me.

I have had a similar revelation the past year or so.

My fathers a pastor so I've been in the church for years but it never really hit home at all. Once he retired I stopped going to church. Then about a year ago I started reading my bible. I mean REALLY reading it. Starting from scratch. No preconcieved notions or prejudices (well, as open minded as I can be I guess.. you still have notions & whatnot) & Holy Hallejuya did my eyes get opened.

I have read my bible more in the past year than I did the entire rest of my life. I read it starting with the Gospels & re read them. probably 10 times in the first 6 months. I learned for myself not just listening to dad & the rest of the gang & I discovered a few things like MY WALK is not the same as anyone else's walk. There are FAR Less rules than churches teach etc.

Its been an incredible journey so far & looking forward to the rest of it. My father thinks I'm backslidden like crazy but I KNOW my walk is closer now than ever.

I have no idea whats next. I dont pretend to know everything or even that what is right for me is right for everyone. The fact is I now know that I DON'T KNOW what's right for others.

Anyways, I really don't want to get into a big debate with people calling me names (don't really care to tell you the truth) but it would be nice to talk to other Christians that may have had similar experiences.

For myself, I believe that the bible is the word of God but I don't know if its totally accurate in the details (human translation & all that) but I think it certainly teaches the basics that can be understood. Love your God with all your heart & all your mind & all your soul & love your neighbor at least as much as you love yourself. Everything else is window dressing.

In the church we heard all the rules but I read the bible & Jesus never told anyone to go & become a Jew or to follow the Jewish laws. If we all just followed the basics the world would be a much better place.

Anyways.. too deep a conversation to be had at work. Might continue this later.

Cya

Forgot to mention I am in my 40's, not a rebellious teenage

 

[2180628097]

Numbers, this is not a swipe, but it does sound to me like you created your own concept of a Creator à la carte. My question is ... what qualities that are beyond your choice and influence do you ascribe to a Creator, how, why? cn

what i did was start from scratch like carl mentioned in his post.I had preconceived ideas etc that wasn`t working.I basically had to clear my head and open my mind.
It was just a starting point and that exercise was a reasonable starting point for me to start out with.
Qualities beyond my choice?
Grace which is love and power.Power for me to live happily today and direction in my life.I get a lot of direction in my life today,I no longer feel lost or unloved.
I feel I have a purpose in living today and feel like I am not a wart on the face of humanity anymore.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

We absolutely must leave room for doubt or there is no progress and no learning. There is no learning without having to pose a question. And a question requires doubt. People search for certainty. But there is no certainty. People are terrified — how can you live and not know? It is not odd at all. You only think you know, as a matter of fact. And most of your actions are based on incomplete knowledge and you really don't know what it is all about, or what the purpose of the world is, or know a great deal of other things. It is possible to live and not know.

 

[polyarcturus]

organized religion is a bane of human civilization. the belief in a higher power is not.

with that said all "churchs" should be shut down and places of worship should be the homes of the believers, or a place purchased or leased directly by the collective believers, with no one leader, religion is much like a dictatorship from what ive seen.