Of course the Civil war and the Confederate flag was not about slavery

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
"There is a terrible war coming, and these young men who have never seen war cannot wait for it to happen, but I tell you, I wish that I owned every slave in the South, for I would free them all to avoid this war."
- Robert E. Lee, before The American Civil War
 

budlover13

King Tut
"There is a terrible war coming, and these young men who have never seen war cannot wait for it to happen, but I tell you, I wish that I owned every slave in the South, for I would free them all to avoid this war."
- Robert E. Lee, before The American Civil War
Personal prospective. He was following orders. He was a military man. He didn't want to die or lead others to death. And he said nothing to whether he would free slaves because they deserved to be free. He said he would do it to avoid a war. He would give up his own personal wealth, to avoid fighting. This quote speaks nothing of his feelings upon slavery nor the cause for the war. Kinda like someone saying "i'd give up my computer, smart phone, car, and microwave if we could stop this senseless violence." imo.
 

budlover13

King Tut
Now, if you can provide further evidence of his anti-slavery views, we can view the evidence and possibly determine his stance on the subject.
 

budlover13

King Tut
it's not about lee's stance on the subject, it's about what role slavery played in causing the civil war. you said it best yourself.
But he didn't say it WOULD avoid the war. He said he would free the slaves he hypothetically owned at a great financial loss, if he didn't have to lead troops into battle. It sounds more like a major sacrifice on his part financially to spare lives than a rebuke of slavery.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
But he didn't say it WOULD avoid the war. He said he would free the slaves he hypothetically owned at a great financial loss, if he didn't have to lead troops into battle. It sounds more like a major sacrifice on his part financially to spare lives than a rebuke of slavery.
he did not make a "would - if" statement, he said he would "free them all to avoid this war".

again, his personal views on slavery ARE NOT RELEVANT, what is relevant is whether or not slavery was an overwhelming factor in:re why they went to war. based on the quote of the de facto head of the confederacy, you'd have to say that was the case.
 

budlover13

King Tut
he did not make a "would - if" statement, he said he would "free them all to avoid this war".

again, his personal views on slavery ARE NOT RELEVANT, what is relevant is whether or not slavery was an overwhelming factor in:re why they went to war. based on the quote of the de facto head of the confederacy, you'd have to say that was the case.

"I would free them all to avoid this war."

"I would kill my firstborn to avoid this war."

"I would take a dick in the ass to avoid this war."


"I would lick UB's sweaty balls to avoid this war."


ALL but one of these statements was within his power to do. Well, two unless you are THAT old ;)

So what did he really say?

"I would end global warming if it would avoid this war."

"I would save Trayvon if it would avoid this war."

"I would bitch-slap Snookie if it avoided this war."

IMO, he was speaking to a hot topic of the time. A PART of the reason the war was fought. Not "the" main contributing factor.

There were several reasons for the Civil War. Slavery was a part of that. And was used as propaganda, just like the other causes.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
"I would free them all to avoid this war."

"I would kill my firstborn to avoid this war."

"I would take a dick in the ass to avoid this war."


"I would lick UB's sweaty balls to avoid this war."


ALL but one of these statements was within his power to do. Well, two unless you are THAT old ;)

So what did he really say?

"I would end global warming if it would avoid this war."

"I would save Trayvon if it would avoid this war."

"I would bitch-slap Snookie if it avoided this war."

IMO, he was speaking to a hot topic of the time. A PART of the reason the war was fought. Not "the" main contributing factor.

There were several reasons for the Civil War. Slavery was a part of that. And was used as propaganda, just like the other causes.
so if slavery wasn't "the" main contributing factor, what ranked higher?

please answer this trap question.
 

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
"There is a terrible war coming, and these young men who have never seen war cannot wait for it to happen, but I tell you, I wish that I owned every slave in the South, for I would free them all to avoid this war."
- Robert E. Lee, before The American Civil War
I see your point, maybe he was caught up in the same type of social mentality that we have today. He really meant, I wish there were no slaves.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I see your point, maybe he was caught up in the same type of social mentality that we have today. He really meant, I wish there were no slaves.
"i would free them all to avoid this war"

clearly he thought one thing would prevent the other. he was the de facto head of the confederacy, not davis.
 

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
Yes, I believe he wanted to avoid war at all costs.
But at the same time he says, "I wish I owed every slave." At that point of the conflict freeing the Slaves was off the table.

I know nothing of the statement so I could be taking it out of context.
 

budlover13

King Tut
Yes, I believe he wanted to avoid war at all costs.
But at the same time he says, "I wish I owed every slave." At that point of the conflict freeing the Slaves was off the table.

I know nothing of the statement so I could be taking it out of context.
That's what i've been TRYING to get across but it seems that sometimes people project their opinions through random quotes ;)
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Well, as causes go, there was a MAJOR "Don't Tread on ME" attitude
you have got to be kidding me.

the southern states bullied the federal government for the fugitive slave act. it was the largest federal power grab in history until that time. most presidents were from the south before the civil war.

taxation, so-called illegal trade with England
show me the desperate pleas from robert e. lee citing these things as possibly preventing the war then. should be easy, as those were more major contributors than slavery, right?

states rights, etc.
how big was the south on states' rights? so big that they forced other states into submitting to their largest ever federal power grab. doesn't matter that the northern states treated those black people who fled to freedom as people, the south still viewed them as slaves, so submit to our bigoted will or else.

just hilarious.
 

budlover13

King Tut
you have got to be kidding me.

the southern states bullied the federal government for the fugitive slave act. it was the largest federal power grab in history until that time. most presidents were from the south before the civil war.



show me the desperate pleas from robert e. lee citing these things as possibly preventing the war then. should be easy, as those were more major contributors than slavery, right?



how big was the south on states' rights? so big that they forced other states into submitting to their largest ever federal power grab. doesn't matter that the northern states treated those black people who fled to freedom as people, the south still viewed them as slaves, so submit to our bigoted will or else.

just hilarious.

What i find hilarious is how you continue to claim to know the thought process he was having. i'm not saying he didn't believe it WOULD end the war. But simply believing it doesn't make it so.

A lesson you'd be well-advised to learn.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
The war was over slavery. Lincoln wasn't focused on it, but he wasn't leading a major revolt, he was combating one. The revolt was economic in motive and slaves were a huge economic resource.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Civil War had very much to do with slavery.

Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens in 1861, declared that slavery was "the immediate cause of the late rupture and the present revolution."
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
What i find hilarious is how you continue to claim to know the thought process he was having. i'm not saying he didn't believe it WOULD end the war. But simply believing it doesn't make it so.

A lesson you'd be well-advised to learn.


Simply believing it does not make it so - words to debate by.
 
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