100% coco-peat for germination

[keebod.dobeek]

Hello,

I've been growing trees in 100% coco-peat till now without any issues. The pot would be real light, and easy to move around as coco-peat is very light compared to soil. Apart from that there wont be earthworms or any critters interested in living inside it, so no worries while working with it without any gloves on hands. This tree business is because of my interest in the art of bonsai.

Anyway, my doubt was about how good is 100% coco-peat in regards to cannabis plant? Very low rate of germination with bagseed tests, as most get rotten away. Coco-peat holds moisture on sunny days for at least 3 days, and fourth day onwards the topmost layer would slightly start drying, and no watering is required for at least 7 days as just the topmost layer is what dries and just a centimeter down there would be that dark colored coco-peat which is wet.

I used those ice tray like things which come in black color for the germination test. These are specifically made for germination of veggies like chillies, tomatoes, eggplants and so on. We don't have those canna professional series kinda high-end coco stuff here, but coming from a place thats named after the coconut trees, I never felt brands do matter as its the same coconut tree's coconut's shell/husk is torn apart and the fibres are whats chopped/powdered to make those coco-peat blocks.

I put one 6 kilogram block of cocopeat in a real tall laundry bucket filled with water, waited till it transforms into that fluffy texture once water is absorbed. Then took sufficient amount of it and filled the seed planting trays.
Took a matchstick and made 1cm holes on all the filled tray holes, and dropped the seed in it, covered it with the cocopeat around the hole. You know just pushing around the hole will get it covered. Used a dropper and dropped water till it starts draining down the holes below the trays. Thats it. No watering after that.

Even after a week when the seeds don't pop out, I was irritated, and poked out the seeds with a matchstick, and saw all were rotten! Not really all, but most of them. Some where just dark, and with a slight press would emit pus like stinky gooey substance.

Anyone ever tried germination in 100% coco-peat? What is the correct process to germinate with 100% cocopeat?

By the way, the following is the weather:


That humidity being 95% is my concern. Its monsoon here, and that high humidity might be why even after seven days, the top never dried up like it would on a sunny day. How should I approach germination with pure coco peat?

Thank You.

 

[george xxx]

Hello,

I've been growing trees in 100% coco-peat till now without any issues. The pot would be real light, and easy to move around as coco-peat is very light compared to soil. Apart from that there wont be earthworms or any critters interested in living inside it, so no worries while working with it without any gloves on hands. This tree business is because of my interest in the art of bonsai.

Anyway, my doubt was about how good is 100% coco-peat in regards to cannabis plant?


Anyone ever tried germination in 100% coco-peat? What is the correct process to germinate with 100% cocopeat?

By the way, the following is the weather:
View attachment 2307718

That humidity being 95% is my concern. Its monsoon here, and that high humidity might be why even after seven days, the top never dried up like it would on a sunny day. How should I approach germination with pure coco peat?

Thank You.

Actually coco is quite good if you have coco nutes. Without coco nutes there are many problems. When I germed in coco I sprayed with water 3 times a day for 2 days and had sprouts.
You really should reconsider some of your ideas on coco. Coco is not just coco. Some needs washed some does not. Some is ground to a fine power some has a lot of thread like fiber. The very fine ground can form a soggy mat that tends to resist water penetration. Quickly turns to a rotting stink if drainage is insufficient.

My first try with coco was my last outdoor plant. Had me start cussing myself and doubting my ability to even fill a pot correctly. I had transplanted a seedling into coco the day before and left it sitting on a table on my back deck. The next morning it looked rather dry and very light. I poured a cup of water in and it a hole formed that the water ran into. My thought was what a dumb fuck can't even fill a pot right any more. Now i'm thinking just add more water and move some coco into the hole. I was slowly pouring more wter in when the plant started shaking. I put the cup down and just stared in disbelief. Then I had to step away from plant something wes erupting from the soil.
3 or 4 seconds later a toad the size of a golf ball hopped out onto the table. I know toads jump but up 4 steps to the deck then up on table and into pot There was no mess or sign of anything digging in pot. So how did a toad get into my pot and make me think I was having issues I'm getting too old for such surprises.

 

[keebod.dobeek]

Hello George,

The cocopeat I'm using is the one that needs 15-20 minutes immersion in water to be used as it comes in hard pressed block manner.
Like this:


I did not know that it isn't made up of just coconut husk/fiber When I spoke to the manufacturers(yes they are located 3km from my home) they said its mostly coconut, and ignored mostly doesn't mean entirely

The version I have drains very well. It just takes few seconds for the water to reach down and drain out from big pots. This drain is just the 'excess water' though. I mean, there obviously is a saturation point, an amount that exceeds the fluffy coco's water holding capacity. The orange color becomes dark brown when it has water in/on it. If i use my fist and press a handful of that, more water would drip away though thats not mentioned in the instructions. I'm not sure if you are speaking about those high grade Canna brand cocos which I highly doubt is even available in India.

My assumption that cocopeat is 100% coconut fibre was based on the fact that its maintained by the Coir Board, which is a govt. organisation that deals with coconut tree derived products. Kerala, the name of the state where I'm from literally means "land of coconuts". "Kera" is coconut in the local language.

The nutes I have been using for the trees(mainly ficus longifolia, ficus retusa, ficus benjamina, schefflera, cryptomeria japonica, etc) is a water soluble NPK rated at 25:10:15 as a lot of nitrogen is required for the leaf growth. Without this nutrient, the tree will be growing at a very low pace as the cocopeat is said to be almost an inert medium, and expects some sort of nutrient to be provided. I was thinking about using this same water soluble nutrient, or its liquid form made for hydroponics by the same coco people.

The nutrient is rather a long way to go unless I at least succeed in germinating in coco which isn't happening as the seeds are rotting away.

The hole situation happens with me on a regular basis whenever I pour water with a mug while standing as that water pressure is more than sufficient to move the cocopeat here and there. Never experienced a frog though

 

[Vindicated]

I prefer one gallon Smart Pots, but when im growing a bunch I like to use empty paper towel rolls. I cut the roll in half and use aluminum foil to seal the bottom.

Then I get my coir brick and let it soak in a big tub. I just use tap water. After soaking I fill up the cut rolls and set them aside.

I grab my seeds, do a quick five minute soaking, then I roll the seed in White Shark myco inoculant, and sow.

After that I put the rolls under my lights which in my case is a single 200w CFL inside my closet.

My ac runs all the time and the room is usually 70°F but humidity is low. I've never had mold or rotting problems with pure four. I do have mold problems with Jiffy peat pellets.

 

[monkeybones]

during my first grow, I planted 3 plants in coco and 2 in peat.

it didn't really make any difference.

in organics, coco is just a more PH balanced alternative to peat

 

[keebod.dobeek]

@Vindicated

"white shark myco inocculent" is a root stimulant. This again is a branded item. So, can I go with any available rooting hormone powder? None of those big brand items you get will be available here.

The one I use for getting more trees from a single one I buy from the nursery is Root-o-max, which is a black powdery thing. The hardwood/softwood cutting from the parent tree is taken, the bottom bark scraped off, would be rolled in the powder, and planting it in soil/coco would make it sprout in less than a weeks time. The ingredient is something like Indole-3 Butyric Acid and Humic Acid. In the bonsai world, this is called as 'Rooting from Cutting', and I hope its the same as 'cloning' in the MJ world.

I'm in a tropical monsoon place and the humidity will always be in the 90-95% range. It's also a coastal area. So the wind from the ocean surface might also be an adding factor to this high humidity. Temperature would always be in the range of 27-33 degree celsius. And sunlight always 12-12.5 hours. Sunrise at 6 in the morning, and sets at 6:30 in the evening

Neopeat Grow Disc is the alternative I would have here for jiffy's peat pellet. ( http://www.neopeat.com/agro.htm#GrowDisc )
Rockwool I believe would be out of question though I am really curious to see it as I could never imagine wool or thread made out of rock!

 

[keebod.dobeek]

@monkeybones

Well, my doubt was regarding 'how to prepare the coco for seed planting so that it will not make the seeds rot'

The fluffed up coco is anyways damp. Like if we take some and rub on a black painted wall or floor, we can see water-wetness!
So, do we have to water once like we do in soil after the seed is placed in it?

 

[monkeybones]

@monkeybones

Well, my doubt was regarding 'how to prepare the coco for seed planting so that it will not make the seeds rot'

The fluffed up coco is anyways damp. Like if we take some and rub on a black painted wall or floor, we can see water-wetness!
So, do we have to water once like we do in soil after the seed is placed in it?

i would do a mixture of about 6 parts coco, 2 parts perlite, 2 parts vermiculite

or something to that effect

this will provide adequate drainage and much better conditions for roots

don't expect coir to rot. it takes it very very very long to bio degrade.

but inadequate drainage could easily lead to the plant 'rotting' or dying off

 

[monkeybones]

you can get away without the vermiculite, in that case substituting it with 1 extra part of both coco and perlite

 

[Vindicated]

@Vindicated

"white shark myco inocculent" is a root stimulant. This again is a branded item. So, can I go with any available rooting hormone powder? None of those big brand items you get will be available here.

The one I use for getting more trees from a single one I buy from the nursery is Root-o-max, which is a black powdery thing. The hardwood/softwood cutting from the parent tree is taken, the bottom bark scraped off, would be rolled in the powder, and planting it in soil/coco would make it sprout in less than a weeks time. The ingredient is something like Indole-3 Butyric Acid and Humic Acid. In the bonsai world, this is called as 'Rooting from Cutting', and I hope its the same as 'cloning' in the MJ world.

I'm sorry, the correct name is Great White Premium Mycorrhizae and it's made by Plant Success. Regardless of what the manufacturer claims, it's not really a "root stimulant" and does nothing to speed up the rooting process. I use it because it allows me to inoculate a sterilized medium like coco coir with live beneficial organisms. I only use coir during the first three to four weeks, after which I always transplant outside in my garden. By inoculating during the "cloning" process I am insuring that the beneficial organisms have the best possible chance of taking hold. If you plant and inoculate later, many times the organisms that are already present in the soil will out compete the organisms your inoculating.

Idole-3 Butyric Acid is a true rooting stimulant. I use it when I have in on hand but I've done find without it too. The typical 'cloning gels' like CloneX contain Idole-3 Butyric acic but also add a few extra things (e.g. B12) which I don't really like. So I usually opt to buy a rooting stimulate that contains Idole-3 and nothing else. Root-o-max sounds really good. And yes, Rooting from Cuttings is the correct time. Only cannabis growers say cloning, everyone else uses the correct term.

 

[keebod.dobeek]

@monkeybones

Perlite/Vermiculite is again out of question. Well, third world country Or just my bad luck.

But found something else to use to go in between coco grains. Its just a nature destruction thingy though. River Sand!
Looks like this:


Thats usually used in a cheap aquarium setup. If rinsed multiple times, until the water runs off crystal clear, it can be used in an aquarium to grow plants.
Anyway, I've used that 30% with the remainder 70% coco peat. The seed did not rot this time! Thank You!

 

[keebod.dobeek]

@Vindicated

The description of the Root-O-Max says its not just a root growth stimulant, but also supplies some essential microbes required during that initial plant growth initiation phase. Might be, might not be what you said, but it somehow worked! The seed did not rot as I mixed river sand as a substitute for perlite at a 30% ratio based on the post by 'monkeybones' and now the cocopeat top layer dries by the end of the day

My intention too is an outdoor grow. I'm having monsoons here and the rain is pretty torrential though by now(august mid) it should have ended!
Planting seed directly out in the rain is pointless. Just as pointless is to keep a tiny seedling outside. So, the plan is to make it reach till around 4-5 true leaf nodes and then transplant it outdoor.

I would happily use this 70/30 ratio of cocopeat/river-sand mix as my soil in the growbag(smart-pot equivalent i guess) that I use outside. I now have a nutrient doubt.
Canna Professional is what I liked as I saw its banner at the Hanf Parade, Berlin! But it will not be available here anyway.

So, the question is if my foliar feed fertilizer can be used as a hydroponic fertilizer?
It has macros in the ratio of 25:10:15, and the trace elements like Fe, Mg, etc too. It is 100% soluble in water, and obviously thats mandatory to be used in the hand mister.
This doubt is because the description says it is to be used for foliar application and for arial roots(ficus trees have a lot of them).

Can general npk + trace elements kinda water soluble ferts be used for fertigation like this?

 

[patlpp]

I had the same problem. rotten seedlingdingers after 6 days of nothing. Remedy: Washed the living crap out of the coco. I let it soak in 6.5 ph water overnight. Problem solved. I think even though you may give the coco a courtesy leech, there still is residual salts. Just a theory but it worked for me. ALso, ever since I stopped the paper towel method, i have had 100% germination. My thought is the less you mess with the precious little baby, the less likely of disaster! I still get nervous using 1st generation coco on seedlings. (by 1st generation I mean never-grown-in coco). In such cases I resort to Jiffys.

Those N-P-k's look pretty good. What caught my eye was the lower K levels which is ideal for coco with the potassium and all in the coco naturally.

 

[keebod.dobeek]

@patlpp

Thank you for the reply.

I don't use the paper towel method as well. I put the seeds in a class of water, and that glass would be covered with a bigger light-proof container by keeping it upside down. This whole thing would then be inside a wooden cupboard/shelf. Within 4-5 hours, the seed would be down, and within around 10-12 hours at least few of the seeds would have cracked. Not like the taproot out or anything. Just a crack, and we can see white color inside

The coco I get are in big 8-10 kilogram blocks so, all can never be used at a time. So, they are in the big tall laundry container filled till half of it with water. No chlorine issues here as the water is from the house 'well'.
As coco doesn't rot, I keep the remaining coco in that water always, till whenever I need it to fill another pot, at which time I would take handful, squeeze the water, and fill pots.

That NPK I'd mentioned is for the growth stage till initiation of flowering(only regular vegetables tried till now).
There is another fertilizer we should use after that which are in the ratio 10:15:25. I did not mention this as my current stage is germination and vegetative growth

 

[patlpp]

I think both those ratio's will be just fine. Or you could find a way to dilute your veg N ratio down a bit by adding in a bloom booster for your flower time

 

[keebod.dobeek]

Well, my doubt was if 'water soluble NPK fertilizer could be used as hydroponic-fertilizer/coco-nutrient' or only specific 'for coco grows' kind of fertilizers should be used?

What is the npk ratio of bloom booster? I can only find its equivalent, not the original brand

 

[patlpp]

Well, my doubt was if 'water soluble NPK fertilizer could be used as hydroponic-fertilizer/coco-nutrient' or only specific 'for coco grows' kind of fertilizers should be used?

What is the npk ratio of bloom booster? I can only find its equivalent, not the original brand

Coco nutes compensate for the higher potassium and the mag absorption. With the lower then normal K in your fert, it is well suited.
a booster would be a supplement with little to no N in it. 0-10-10 , 0-4-5 and so forth. Just something to make N less dominant for bloom.

 

[monkeybones]

@monkeybones

Perlite/Vermiculite is again out of question. Well, third world country Or just my bad luck.

But found something else to use to go in between coco grains. Its just a nature destruction thingy though. River Sand!
Looks like this:
View attachment 2312920

Thats usually used in a cheap aquarium setup. If rinsed multiple times, until the water runs off crystal clear, it can be used in an aquarium to grow plants.
Anyway, I've used that 30% with the remainder 70% coco peat. The seed did not rot this time! Thank You!

you just won't get the same results. that looks like it's going to compact your soil even more

you can get a bag of each of what I mentioned for under $10. if you gotta break the bank, you'll still be thankful you did

i have a hard time believing you're posting from a computer on the internet in a 3rd world country, and you can't buy some soil amendment

 

[monkeybones]

last I checked aquarium gravel was more expensive than a bag of perlite

 

[keebod.dobeek]

@monkeybones

It is not because I don't want to spend money! What can I do if the nurseries I had asked don't have them? :O
The third world aspect was not about my expense or anything, it was about the unavailability of quality products.