Need Some Help: Stumped

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Unusual0n3

Active Member
This is my first grow and my first post-- which I hate writing because I prefer answers through research rather than hand-outs, but here I am, truly and humbly stumped.

There are five plants, two are WW and three are bag. Each strain is showing a unique set of symptoms.

Symptoms manifested early in the grow for each... older leaves yellowing for both, then the WW start to curl upward and die from the tips inward. The bag plant older leaves would grow increasingly yellow and get brown spots uniformly across the affected leaves.

I smartened up and got a PH meter, which showed 5.5. After a lot of reading and trips to the spa store, I decided on wood ash (1/4 teaspoon per gallon) to bring it up. It's held steady at 6.8ish without further treatment.

The problem continued.

After a lot more reading and comparing my leaves to pictures on the "sick plants" page, I figured it was a magnesium deficiency. I treated with epsom salt (1/4 tsp per gallon) for one watering.

The mag treatment was 6 days ago and the problem continues.

Two days ago I transplanted all from 1 gallon to 5 gallon pots.

THere aren't any signs of pests. Though I admit I haven't bought a magnifying glass yet.

Soil Mix:
5 gallon
1 part perlite
2 parts Scott's potting soil
1 part Miracle Grow Organic soil mix
1 fistfull of bloodmeal
1 fistfull of bonemeal

Every third watering I use fish emulsion tea.
Twice I've used a 200ppm 8-16-8 fert. (Monty's Joy Juice)

I'm growing under a 430 watt HPS about 2 feet from plant tops.
Temp varies from 75-80 at mid plant level. Humidy is dry, usually around 40%.

Please help me diagnose these problems.:confused:
 

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mogie

mogie

Well-Known Member
Do you have a fan to blow air directly on your plants. Do you have both fresh air being pulled in and stale air being sucked out. I ask because almost looks like a fungus problem related to lack of proper venting.

Contributed by: Smokey D Dope

How do I add ventilation to my grow area?
There are a couple of considerations to observe when planning your ventilation, they’re pretty simple concepts; but they are often overlooked.

· First, remember that warmer air will naturally rise to the top of any container, and that cooler air will naturally settle towards the bottom.
· Also remember that when ventilating any space, the volume (VOLUME, in cubic feet or cubic meters... [L x W x H]) of air that goes IN, also has to come OUT.
· You can’t expect to ventilate a grow space by simply forcing air in, and not providing an exhaust vent.

Since the object is to remove as much warm air as possible, and replace it with cooler air, it will be most efficient to place the exhaust as close to the top of the space as possible, and place the intake as close to the bottom as possible.


Should I place the fan in the exhaust, intake or both?
The fan should be placed in the exhaust, and the intake should be a simple hole (or light trap, if light getting out is a concern).
This type of system is known as an Active Exhaust, Passive Intake System.
Mounting the fan in the exhaust, sucking air out of the room accomplishes a couple of things...

· Since the exhaust is at the top of the area, the fan will suck the hottest air out of the area first.
· The fan is actually lowering the air pressure inside the area. Any incidental pinholes or leaky seams will simply draw air in. If the fan were blowing IN, those pinholes and leaks would allow potentially smelly air OUT.


How big should the passive intake be?
It should be slightly larger than the exhaust. Remember, the volume of air being blown out, will be replaced through the intake. Using a bigger intake hole allows the incoming air to be at a lower velocity (speed), which minimizes mixing up of the air in the area. It will also allow the fan to operate more efficiently.


How big should the fan be?
Fans are rated in either cubic feet (CFM) or cubic meters per minute in North America. In Eurpose, metric fans are rated in m3/hr - cubic metres per hour (m3/hr).

That means a 70CFM fan will move 70 cubic feet of air in one minute.
Your fan should be big enough to move the volume of your area 2 to 3 times every minute. A 70 CFM fan would be adequate for a 35 cubic foot area, and would be optimal for roughly a 23 cubic foot area.

· To figure your area’s cubic volume, multiply (in feet) the length by the width by the height.


What if I have more than one fan? Should I use one to blow air in and one to suck air out?
Not if the object is to provide as much ventilation and cooling as possible.

· If you have two 3-inch diameter fans, and you mount one in the intake, and one in the exhaust, you have a total intake area of one 3-inch hole and a total exhaust area of one 3-inch hole.
· If you use both fans as exhausts, you have TWO 3-inch exhausts and two 3-inch intakes (actually, two 3.3 inch intakes. They should be bigger than the exhausts, remember?).
· Twice as many holes, twice as much airflow.


Enhanced Blower Mods

Timer Options
If you find that the "Lights off" temps are lower than you'd prefer, you can simply run the fan from the same timer as the light by using a multi outlet power strip connected to the timer. Plug the lights and the fan into the power strip, and the fan will turn on/off with the lights. If you're using more than one fan, you could connect some or all of them, remembering that the more fans you have running, the lower the temps will be.
* SAFETY NOTE: The timer must be able to handle the additional electrical load, or an additional timer must be used. SAFTEY FIRST.

Sound Suppression
Making the ventilation system quieter can be an important consideration, and it's important to remember that the air moving through the intakes and exhausts make noise, as well as the fan itself. Some of the fan noise from vibration can be overcome by mounting the fan in a non-rigid manner. The fans can me mounted using rubber grommets to help dampen the vibration. Self-adhesive foam rubber window insulation can also be used. In some installations, it can be mounted by threading a bungee cord through each mounting hole, then attaching the other ends of the bungee cord to the exhaust hole.

· Generally, air moving through ductwork or tubing can become noisy, particularly if the air has to move at a higher velocity. More, larger diameter intakes and vent tubes will generally be quieter than fewer, smaller diameter intakes and vents. The fans also don't have to work quite as hard.
· Finally, although popular and easy to use, flexible "Accordion" type hose, commonly used to connect clothes dryers to external vents are not always the best choice, as they cause a great deal of drag, (making the fans work harder) and generally air flowing through them is noisier than smoother ductwork.

Filtering\Odor Control
Connecting a Carbon scrubber is a good method of controlling the odor that can be a dead giveaway to an otherwise stealthy installation. A carbon scrubber is simply an expansion chamber (box) into which the smelly air from a flower chamber is pumped. The chamber has a large exhaust vent, which is covered by an activated carbon air filter. The chamber must be big enough to provide a damping effect of the incoming air. If too small a scrubber is used, the fan will not be capable of pushing air through the filter. Here, you actually want the exhaust vent to be considerably bigger than the intake.

· There are also several DIY Odor killers available, which work to varying degrees to provide an "Odor Cover-up."
· Remember, the term "Low Odor Strain" is relative.
· Even the low odor strains generally still stink pretty badly near the end of flowering.
 
U

Unusual0n3

Active Member
mogie said:
Do you have a fan to blow air directly on your plants. Do you have both fresh air being pulled in and stale air being sucked out. I ask because almost looks like a fungus problem related to lack of proper venting.
Click to expand...

Holy cats. Could it be that simple?

I don't have any vent fans. I keep the closet door ajar with a ceiling fan going. I figured that would be enough because the force of the ceiling fan noticably moves the plants.

But... my roommate occupies that bedroom (room with 2 closets, logical place to grow) and who the hell wouldn't close the door a tad with a dwarf star shining from the closet when they are trying to sleep?

Thanks for your reply, Mogie.

Time for a keyhole saw, a map and a plan.
 
mogie

mogie

Well-Known Member
I know this sounds simple and it is. I know this well because it happened to me. Nearly wiped out my crop. But I had to learn the hard way (they were in flower).

Now I have plenty of air flow. Probably a little overkill but it's better then not enough. Think cheap fans, even computer fans will help. Check rollitups frequently asked questions for the do it yourself sections. Helpful hints on money saving ideas.
 
F

FallenHero

Guest
ive had problems that look exactly like yours. my problem could have been one of two things:

too much phosphorus too early

ph off balance

i'm leaning towards ph. they got better when i fixed it.
 
FilthyFletch

FilthyFletch

Mr I Can Do That For Half
Hahah I know exactly what it is from.I did this on a few early grows in life and have stayed away from the culprits ever since.The blood and bone meal are your culprits.Its just too much if you dont have a defiency need for it.I did it to some plants I grew along time ago 3 times and learned.The plants get a wilty yellow that starts to dry the leaves and they get a curl look then the crispy brown like burnt look to them.Id bet if you get them out of that soil gently rinse them and move them to a simple soil like Miracle Grow moisture control and then just nurse them with no feed just plain ph balanced water for 2 weeks you ll see improvement come in and in about a month bad leaves should drop and nice new green leaves will come in.Just water them give them light and a light breeze.I now never use blood or bone meal just for the fact its touchy stuff and kills pretty easy.Give it a try and I bet it solves the issue..
 
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FallenHero

Guest
i used none of those, same problem, leaves identical to what mine had looked like
 
mogie

mogie

Well-Known Member
I had the problem. After about 3 weeks took a leaf with me when I visited son of chong. Took him about 15 seconds. Then he asked about my ventilation. I was guilty of having none except for a oscilating fan. Fungas nearly wiped out everything. Intense spraying salvaged about 1/3 of the crop. Installed inline fan, permanent door vent and upgraded oscilating fan. Just adding ventilation solved the problem.
 
U

Unusual0n3

Active Member
VictorVIcious said:
Why do you have a 430watt hps 2' above the plants? are you trying to stretch them ?
Click to expand...
Initially for caution. Heat has been a problem throughout this grow.

Early on the lights were set at 10" and signs of heat stress put the fear in me.

I plan to get a fan for the light and vent it out a seperate exhaust port-- hopefully that will allow a more efficient light placement.
 
U

Unusual0n3

Active Member
Thank you all for the replies.

It was the ventilation.

I wound up with one viable WW female.

The other female, from unknown stock, was apparently an outdoor variety which unchecked would have grown itself thrice around the grow room. I think it may be a sativa variety of some sort.

It's tied up in the corner and still growing a half inch a day while it flowers.

One WW was male (seeds!) and the rest hermie. May they rest in pieces.

Heat retention is still a problem. Either a revamp of the exhaust or vent on the light is needed.

- Hydrofarm light (has the glass cover) with factory drilled holes for fan attachment.

I'm grateful for any suggestions.

P.S.
The pics are of WW in 5th week of flower.
 

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