ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
You are a brave soul for even setting foot there
Attention Ron Paul supporters
- Thread starter MellowFarmer
- Start date
budlover13
King Tut
Bravery and foolishness is a VERY fine line
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
So with all due respect, given American consumers buy primarily imported goods.
You want to put tariffs on imports and you don't see how that fucks the consumer? So you think it'll make jobs in America?
Why do you think Harley Davidson are failing AGAIN? Consumers refuse to pay the higher prices for domestically produced goods, by putting tariffs on the imports ultimately you're just making even less choice for the consumer and forcing them to pay higher prices for everything. What's the point in increasing spending power on one hand making jobs and decreasing it on the other by charging tariffs on imported goods?
The US imports far too much now, I don't know what the solution is (how do you "fix" uncompetitive wages without reducing living standards?) and I see the pitfalls to free trade, but protectionism is fail-sauce and in complex modern economies will only cause hardship on the consumer.
You want to put tariffs on imports and you don't see how that fucks the consumer? So you think it'll make jobs in America?
Why do you think Harley Davidson are failing AGAIN? Consumers refuse to pay the higher prices for domestically produced goods, by putting tariffs on the imports ultimately you're just making even less choice for the consumer and forcing them to pay higher prices for everything. What's the point in increasing spending power on one hand making jobs and decreasing it on the other by charging tariffs on imported goods?
The US imports far too much now, I don't know what the solution is (how do you "fix" uncompetitive wages without reducing living standards?) and I see the pitfalls to free trade, but protectionism is fail-sauce and in complex modern economies will only cause hardship on the consumer.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
CHICAGO, Jul 20, 2012 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Fitch Ratings has upgraded the Issuer Default Ratings (IDRs) of Harley-Davidson, Inc. (HOG) and its Harley-Davidson Financial Services, Inc. (HDFS) and Harley-Davidson Funding Corp. (HDFC) subsidiaries to 'A-'. The Rating Outlooks for HOG, HDFS and HDFC are Stable. See below for a complete list of ratings. The upgrades reflect the motorcycle manufacturer's leading position in the U.S. heavyweight motorcycle segment, its robust cash liquidity position, high EBITDA margins and low operating company (OC) leverage. Demand for Harley-Davidson motorcycles remains strong in the U.S., with dealer sales growing consistently since early 2011, while outside the U.S. the company continues to see positive growth trends in emerging markets. Demand in Europe is likely to weaken, however, as a result of the region's challenging economic conditions. Nonetheless, HOG's cost structure continues to improve as a result of its significant restructuring actions, which are nearing completion, while HDFS continues to experience good asset performance and funding access. Although the OC's restructuring program will result in somewhat higher expenses through the remainder of 2012, over the long term the changes will provide it with significantly greater manufacturing flexibility and lower operating costs.
Harrekin why do you Fail so much?
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
To be honest it's been a few years since I looked into HD, so I stand corrected, they turned their shit around.
DukeAnthony my question for you is... why can't you type anything of your own? I'd rather have an intelligent conversation with a few mistakes than read your walls of bullshit C/P.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
I would love to have a conversation
problem with that is
Without citation and in my own words. I am accused of being full of shit
So it is a lose/lose situation isn't it
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Ever heard of providing a link? That way people who wish to can read your opinion in a succinct fashion and research further should they wish.
Either way, tariffs are a dumb idea, unless you're rich or don't buy imported goods. Like I said, anyone have an iPhone? iPad? Imported PC? TV? Car? Motorbike? Food?
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
It's harder to ignore text
doncha think?
BTW
tariffs are a stupid idea I agree
We can do like europe and have VAT
right?
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
VAT is shocking, ours is 23% (or 13.5% for services). It just robs the consumer tho, it's basically a tariff on EVERYTHING!
bedspirit
Active Member
Here's a link to an interesting article on why globalism has been a disaster for the U.S. It's a site that tends to lean to the right. I chose to share it because I sense that the fear of globalism is becoming a bipartisan issue. This one has to do with the transfer of wealth from the U.S. to foreign countries which ends up being spent purchasing our public goods. It's broken down into a top ten list:
#1 Globalism has merged the U.S. economy with economies that allow slave labor wages.
#2 U.S. companies make bigger profits by sending jobs overseas.
#3 Globalism has allowed foreign countries to dominate a whole host of industries that used to be dominated by the United States.
#4 Jobs and manufacturing infrastructure are being lost at an astounding pace and they are not going to come back.
#5 Workers without good jobs can't buy houses or cars.
#6 If American workers don't have jobs they aren't paying taxes.
#7 Instead of receiving taxes, the government must pay out money to our unemployed workers instead.
#8 As jobs and businesses leave our shores, many of our once great manufacturing cities have been transformed into hellholes.
#9 The United States ends up borrowing back most of the money that it sends overseas every single month.
#10 Foreign countries are using up some of the wealth that we send them every month to buy up our infrastructure.
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/how-globalism-has-destroyed-our-jobs-businesses-and-national-wealth-in-10-easy-steps
I know everyone loves the amount of cheap shit that is available, but as our economy tanks, as inflation decreases the value of the dollar, and as households bring in less and less dollars, those items may not seem so cheap anymore.
I'm not married to the idea of tariffs, but I think we should engage in some form of protectionism.
#1 Globalism has merged the U.S. economy with economies that allow slave labor wages.
#2 U.S. companies make bigger profits by sending jobs overseas.
#3 Globalism has allowed foreign countries to dominate a whole host of industries that used to be dominated by the United States.
#4 Jobs and manufacturing infrastructure are being lost at an astounding pace and they are not going to come back.
#5 Workers without good jobs can't buy houses or cars.
#6 If American workers don't have jobs they aren't paying taxes.
#7 Instead of receiving taxes, the government must pay out money to our unemployed workers instead.
#8 As jobs and businesses leave our shores, many of our once great manufacturing cities have been transformed into hellholes.
#9 The United States ends up borrowing back most of the money that it sends overseas every single month.
#10 Foreign countries are using up some of the wealth that we send them every month to buy up our infrastructure.
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/how-globalism-has-destroyed-our-jobs-businesses-and-national-wealth-in-10-easy-steps
I know everyone loves the amount of cheap shit that is available, but as our economy tanks, as inflation decreases the value of the dollar, and as households bring in less and less dollars, those items may not seem so cheap anymore.
I'm not married to the idea of tariffs, but I think we should engage in some form of protectionism.
Moses Mobetta
Well-Known Member
Every day I drive by vacant buildings where thousands of good paying jobs used to be. They moved to Mexico, Phillipine Islands, India, Pakistan and other countries. Something should have been done long ago to keep these jobs here. In many cases we were told that the people in these countries would make similar wages and then buy things made here. That didn't happen, the factories closed, the foriegn workers became exploited and the jobs show no sign of returning. You make good points with this Bedspirit.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Ironic that it's always been primarily the US that has pushed globalisation.
All those countries you "free the shit out of" stealing your jobs?
Cry me a river while you screw the taxpayers with more costs and remove more money from the economy.
I guess democracy isn't a solid export afterall?
All those countries you "free the shit out of" stealing your jobs?
Cry me a river while you screw the taxpayers with more costs and remove more money from the economy.
I guess democracy isn't a solid export afterall?
bedspirit
Active Member
You didn't read the article, did you. Every month we move 50 billion dollars from the U.S. to the manufacturers of those imported goods. That's every single month. I know it would break your fucking heart to pay a little more for an American made product, but at least that money would actually stay here. In this country. In this economy.
The real irony is that your idea of keeping money in the economy actually does the opposite. It moves money out of the economy to what ever country produced that cheap shit you're buying.
exactly what the fuck does this mean?
is that a typo? What does it mean to free the shit out of jobs? And what do you mean by "your" jobs? They're not "our" jobs? What fucking country do you live in?
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
I'm Irish so I can honestly say more taxes on the populace is not what your country needs.
You's will be Europe 2.0 soon, wait and see.
Even if there were manufacturing jobs in the US, you's still didn't build it tho
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
You dont build a manufacturing plant overnight
Something the Free marketeers totally ignore
No the Free market will not step in every time there is a need. The upfront investment can deter a startup from ever getting off the ground.
bedspirit
Active Member
So you don't live in the U.S.? Goddamn it. Here I was trying to figure out what part of the US you could possibly be living in to not see how devastating our trade policy has been. I just assumed you were very young and didn't remember what it was like before we started down this path. All I can tell you is that it was better before and I doubt very much that you'll find many Americans arguing that point.I'm Irish so I can honestly say more taxes on the populace is not what your country needs.
You's will be Europe 2.0 soon, wait and see.
Even if there were manufacturing jobs in the US, you's still didn't build it tho
bedspirit
Active Member
I agree in general, but you'd be surprised how quickly a plant can move when there is proper motivation. You might recall in the early 2000's a lot of food processors moved to China and a few years later, there were numerous reports of tainted food coming from China. I was working at an international shipping port that also rented out space to food processors. Within a few months of those reports, the ones we lost all came scrambling back looking to rent space.
I was talking to one of the owners who said the plant they built in China was state of the art, but the problem was the workers were uneducated and had extremely bad hygiene. Sure, they built it, but somehow building it wasn't enough. They needed an educated population and a more sophisticated infrastructure to successfully operate. Imagine that.