Im an ex soil, organic guy. I need help with my EBB & FLOW SOG.

[WestCoastMaster]

I used to grow 8 huge f**kn trees in a 5x10ft room with 2000w HPS, and a 5x5ft veg room with a 600w MH.

I have used Subcools Super Soil, General Organics, Bio Canna, Fox Farm, teas....bla, bla, and bla.

I am used to growing HUGE plants, problem is I am tired of trying to hide trees and I am tired of all those loose crapy buds on the bottom 60% of those trees.

I realize that I AM WAISTING ENERGY!!! BOTH MINE AND $$$ ON THAT 60% of the plant that produces nothing.

0.37GPW. . . I know its sad.

NOW I HAVE An EBB AND FLOW.

I bought a used Turbo Garden from my local hydro shop for $125!!! Great price, its was clean like new, has a 250GPH pump, and 20 5x5 white square pots.
I have been very interested in SOG for some time now. Also interested in all these micro grows, Im tired of my huge grow room so I sold just about it all. I do have some questions pertaining to Ebb and Flow and SOG and I also have never used mother plants.

The Turbo Garden is 2ftx3ft. I plan on using a 400w i have laying around (33.33 WPF). I also have a 600w (100 WPF!!!)... This grow show is going in my spare bathroom, my last one took up the whole garage.

1. I hear to flood 4x a day for 15min. Is this true? Is there a different schedule for 12/12?
2. Mother Plants...? Soil or hydro? How much light? Should the light be fixed up high so she stretches for good long clones? How big of a container? I need at least 25 clones off her at a time.
3. How big should clones be cut? I hear clones rooted in a machine cant be put in rockwool, just hydroton?
4. How long to veg for SOG? WHEN DO I TRIM OFF ALL THE SIDE BRANCHES? I hear around week 2-3 of flower... wont that retard flowering?

STRAINS I HAVE---WHAT SHOULD I KEEP FOR SOG???

Agent Orange------------------------------------------------------------This one will grow super tall if not topped
Critical Kali Mist---------------------------------------------------------I dont like the 3mo flower period at all!
Northern Lights-----------------------------------------------------------?
Blue Berry Gum---------------------------------------------------------?
Fruity Chronic Juice----------------------------------------------------This one is supposed to be good
Strawberry Cough x NYCD Diesel AKA Strawberry D-Lite --------- I hear both these strain are great for SCROG not SOG
Warlock-----------------------------------------------------------------Mine is super branchy
Bubba Kush x Great White --------------------------------------------?
Big Buddha Cheese------------------------------------------------------Seems like it would be okay?

 

[WestCoastMaster]

All help is much appreciated, thanks to all, and happy growing.

 

[MrMeanGreen]

1. I hear to flood 4x a day for 15min. Is this true? Is there a different schedule for 12/12?

Depends on your medium. I use hydroton and I flood every 2 hours for 30mins (lights on) and every 4 hours (lights off).

2. Mother Plants...? Soil or hydro? How much light? Should the light be fixed up high so she stretches for good long clones? How big of a container? I need at least 25 clones off her at a time.

No mothers for me. I take 2 clones from each plant, 4 weeks into flowering. Gives you 4-6 weeks to revert back to veg and tidy them up ready for next crop.

3. How big should clones be cut? I hear clones rooted in a machine cant be put in rockwool, just hydroton?

Only use 2x1" rockwool cubes for cloning then drop them in to hydroton and onto flood table.

4. How long to veg for SOG? WHEN DO I TRIM OFF ALL THE SIDE BRANCHES? I hear around week 2-3 of flower... wont that retard flowering?

Don't veg at all (2-3 days to settle into their new home), it's a sog. If you veg then add flowering stretch..... big plants, not good in a sog.

Hope this helps....

 

[Castor Troy]

i think any kush would be fine.
i am doing a 2x4 tray(x4) under 1000w and 600w. 20 plants per tray, 270 gph pump in each tray. i flood for 3 mins, takes another 2 mins to drain, keep an air pump line going to each res for keeping the mixture turbulent.
i root my clones in the small rockwool cubes. bigger clones the better, they get 2 weeks to pop roots then they get put into flower.
2nd and/or 3rd week when theyre done, or well into their growth spurt, cut the lower 1/3 branches right close to stem.
keep lots of airflow in there.
i would run your mothers with 18/6 light, i find having 24hr light on her, she wont grow as fast, needs dark to grow.
i do hydro, have never tried soil, i dont like the mess.
you will need at least 8 mothers, maybe less if you got a high powered veg light.
check al b fuct's "harvest every 2 weeks" thread, thats where i got my inspiration from.

 

[WestCoastMaster]

Thank you!

1. So do I need to "wash" the hydroton before using it? Is it re-usable?
2. If I make cuttings in rockwool, dont i have to soak the rockwool or something?
3. HOW MANY plants would you want to put on a 2ftx3ft table? Can I use all 17 of these 5in white square pots that came with it? Thats all that will fit -17 . Its the "Turbo Garden".
or could i pack rockwool cubes in real tight and just have a sh*t ton of em in there?
4. What temp should the rez be at? I know there are rez heaters that are cheep but chillers are not...? Its probably going to be too hot.
5. If using hydroton in those pots, how often should it be flooded during light and dark hours? Is it different for rockwool?

Thanks to all +rep

 

[WestCoastMaster]

Well thanks to all who looked at my questions knew the answers and didn't help a brother out. I have 50 clones riding on this. Rent, diapers and formula. Disabled with a brain injury work is not an option.

 

[PetFlora]

I hear to flood 4x a day for 15min. Is this true?


see my journal for full details of my 21st Century DIY F & D

I put germed seeds into Super Starter cubes cut in half they go into a small plastic container with high walls (~3-4"). Thgis goes on the kitchen window sill which faces south so gets decent balanced light. I cover with a humidity dome

Once the tap reaches the bottom (~ 3 days) I move each to a small net pot. This goes into a 1.5" pvc coupler my DIY bubbler (Rubbermaid ToughTote using 45L/hr air pump + 4 large Oxystones. They stay until a ~ golf ball size root develops. I then transfer to either my .9G Air Pots (pre-filled with lava rock). Place the small net pot then fill in with lava rock. It drains fast, and leaves thousands of small pockets that catch miniscule amounts of nutes for the roots feed on and stay moist between 'floods' which is ~ 5 minutes every 30- 45 minutes during veg-early flower. At which time floods are decreased down to 1 per 2 - 4 hours.

I "flood" from the top using pvc + low pessure sprinkler heads. Rez is outboard: a plastic cooler a small low pressure pump + air stones to keep it circulated 24/7

Is there a different schedule for 12/12?

Not a fan. Think about it. The life cycle in nature is rarely 12/12. I use 20/4 until I see 4th leaf set (~ 2 weeks), then drop to 14/10 through veg. Flower at 10/14, though a brief stop (~5 days) at 12/12 should work. The problem with 12/12 from seed is at flower cycle it does not provide a clear cut signal for the plant to transition to flower


How big should clones be cut? I hear clones rooted in a machine cant be put in rockwool, just hydroton? My DIY bubbler works equally as good for clones. However, clonesget no medium. They are placed in rubber stoppers and hang over oxygen rich bubbler. NMN= No Media Needed

 

[Warlock1369]

You can clone in a cloner then go to RW. You just need to be careful. Take you large cube place rooted clone in the hole. Take a 1" cube ripped up and fill the hole and support the clone. Let the roots grow from there and it's good to go. I do it all the time.

 

[Clown Baby]

1. I hear to flood 4x a day for 15min. Is this true? Is there a different schedule for 12/12?
If you've got those pots, I assume you're growing in hydroton. When I used to run flood tables, I flooded for 15 minutes every 3 hours while the lights were on. You don't need to flood while the lights are off. Plants use water for photosynthesis. When the lights are off, there's no photosynthesis, so you don't need to water.

2. Mother Plants...? Soil or hydro? How much light? Should the light be fixed up high so she stretches for good long clones? How big of a container? I need at least 25 clones off her at a time.
That's your call. Having them in soil is a little safer. You've grown in soil, so you should know when you up pot to a bigger container. Having a few mothers means you need less clones per mother. Keep in mind a little LST can help it branch out to give you a few more/stronger clone sites.

3. How big should clones be cut? I hear clones rooted in a machine cant be put in rockwool, just hydroton?A good size for a clone is around 6" and at least three nodes. It really depends on how successful you are with your mothers. You gotta work with what you've got. If you use a clone machine, then yea, just pop it straight into the hydroton pots. Be gentle!
4. How long to veg for SOG? WHEN DO I TRIM OFF ALL THE SIDE BRANCHES? I hear around week 2-3 of flower... wont that retard flowering? IMHO, it's good to give them a week or so to get nice and rooted in the hydroton before going 12/12. You can start lollipopping around then. Remember, you don't have to do it all at once. You can cut a few sucker branches at week 3, some more at week 3, then the rest at week 4. There's no set rule on this, but it's best not to do too much at once.
STRAINS I HAVE---WHAT SHOULD I KEEP FOR SOG???
Strain name doesnt help decide this a whole lot. It really depends on what phenotypes you come up with. A single pack of seeds can produce 10 different plants with 10 different structures (some breeders put out really inconsistent gear). A plant that grows big top colas would be your best bet. and as you know, flower time is a factor. an 8 weeker vs a 13 weeker makes a big difference as far as cycles/year is concerned. Maybe grow a bunch out, take some clones, flower the clones, and pick what you like based on that. Or just go with blind faith. Whatever you choose, cycle a couple new ones in there every once in a while to see if you find something you like more than what you're currently running.

good luck. ebb and flow sog is really efficient, and pretty low maintenance. But I never liked those high plant counts...

 

[WestCoastMaster]

Okay thank you for your responses, Im using Roots coco mix, and bontanicare nutes. Is Liquid Karma okay to use in hydro? my nute batch was nice and almost completely colorless until i added LK. Now its brown and the rez stinks just like a organic substance should but im using Power Grow and Flower. I had a HUGE problem with the pots bobbin around once it flooded the first time. Turned off the pump and struggled to keep em afloat. So I laid a heave steal grate on top of the pots, no more floatn. My rez TEMP is at 85.f, room at 87.f. Two air stones and i'm running it 15min every other hour on a 24/0 right now. Fan/filter going 24/7 on speedster. Ill post a pic later tonight for you all. I literally pieced this hydro EXperiment together with extra grow equipment my soil-op isn't using. A couple of my clones look like sh*t so don't hate, I had plenty of good healthy Kali Mist ones but decided to through them out ( it was a clone massacre ) and stick with these genetics for one more run and keep my favorite for the next. Note i put one clone of every strain i have in a soil 1gal of roots organic to later be transplanted and b my mommy. Oh i'm using a 400w, i figured since the turbo garden is 6sf that 66.66 WPF is plenty of light.

 

[Clown Baby]

Unlike hydroton, Coco has the ability to wick. So you don't have to flood it superhigh. This might help prevent pots from floating around.

 

[WestCoastMaster]

Unlike hydroton, Coco has the ability to wick. So you don't have to flood it superhigh. This might help prevent pots from floating around.

TRUE that, these pots suck i am seeing now, the holes on bottom are not big enough, next time ill use hydroton in 2gal smart pots, didn't use hydroton this time cuz clones were dyeing had no time to wash the clay, the coco was an easy quick fix. Maybe ill decrees the flood hight a few raisers and flood for 30min every 3hr....

 

[adower]

Okay thank you for your responses, Im using Roots coco mix, and bontanicare nutes. Is Liquid Karma okay to use in hydro? my nute batch was nice and almost completely colorless until i added LK. Now its brown and the rez stinks just like a organic substance should but im using Power Grow and Flower. I had a HUGE problem with the pots bobbin around once it flooded the first time. Turned off the pump and struggled to keep em afloat. So I laid a heave steal grate on top of the pots, no more floatn. My rez TEMP is at 85.f, room at 87.f. Two air stones and i'm running it 15min every other hour on a 24/0 right now. Fan/filter going 24/7 on speedster. Ill post a pic later tonight for you all. I literally pieced this hydro EXperiment together with extra grow equipment my soil-op isn't using. A couple of my clones look like sh*t so don't hate, I had plenty of good healthy Kali Mist ones but decided to through them out ( it was a clone massacre ) and stick with these genetics for one more run and keep my favorite for the next. Note i put one clone of every strain i have in a soil 1gal of roots organic to later be transplanted and b my mommy. Oh i'm using a 400w, i figured since the turbo garden is 6sf that 66.66 WPF is plenty of light.

You need to get your res temp down big time. Its WAY to high.

 

[WestCoastMaster]

You need to get your res temp down big time. Its WAY to high.

How do I go about that? I just checked on em and air temp is 101F. I have been dealing with temps like this for 2yrs. Air cooled hoods, CFM twice as much as it needs to be for the space, I can't get temps down. No one out here can unless your runnin a mini split or huge A/C system. Just not possible with out your electricity bill being in the high 300$ @ .11cents per KWH. We all just use Dyna Gro Pro Teckd. It's 8.7% silica, "silica blast" from B.C. Is only like 3.0%.

I heard you could through in some frozen water bottles...? I guess just tie a string on em so you can fish em back out?

IS THERE A REZ CHILLER? Or a way to do this with out sh*tn out a 20 dollar bill everyday or what?


I like the control and options I have with hydro but soil is... Well its soil you don't have to chill it just the ambient air.

PLEASE SOME ONE HELP ME GET MY REZ TEMP DOWN.

BTW where should my Rez temp be at anyway?

 

[adower]

How do I go about that? I just checked on em and air temp is 101F. I have been dealing with temps like this for 2yrs. Air cooled hoods, CFM twice as much as it needs to be for the space, I can't get temps down. No one out here can unless your runnin a mini split or huge A/C system. Just not possible with out your electricity bill being in the high 300$ @ .11cents per KWH. We all just use Dyna Gro Pro Teckd. It's 8.7% silica, "silica blast" from B.C. Is only like 3.0%.

I heard you could through in some frozen water bottles...? I guess just tie a string on em so you can fish em back out?

IS THERE A REZ CHILLER? Or a way to do this with out sh*tn out a 20 dollar bill everyday or what?


I like the control and options I have with hydro but soil is... Well its soil you don't have to chill it just the ambient air.

PLEASE SOME ONE HELP ME GET MY REZ TEMP DOWN.

BTW where should my Rez temp be at anyway?

You can do several things. Water bottles are one but they're a head ache, pulling them out and freezing / re-freezing. You can also buy a chiller. They can be anywhere from $300-$1,000 dollars. I run a 1/2 hp chiller the chills my 55 gal res that feeds the nutes. You will need to run a separate 20 gallon reservoir for your water chiller. This chiller will cool the water in the 20 gallon chiller. Then you will need another pump to pump the water from the chilled reservoir through your coil in the main res with the nutes.

Edit* Make sure your coil is NOT copper. Get stainless steel.

 

[Castor Troy]

Go buy a portable ac on craigslist for 100 bucks or less. Stick the condenser outlet duct out the window and point the cooled air Louvers at your res. Air con will also keep humidity low. It will pull about 7-9 amps.

 

[BUdbuddysmile]

You can do several things. Water bottles are one but they're a head ache, pulling them out and freezing / re-freezing. You can also buy a chiller. They can be anywhere from $300-$1,000 dollars. I run a 1/2 hp chiller the chills my 55 gal res that feeds the nutes. You will need to run a separate 20 gallon reservoir for your water chiller. This chiller will cool the water in the 20 gallon chiller. Then you will need another pump to pump the water from the chilled reservoir through your coil in the main res with the nutes.

To add: Res temps should be between 60-70. I have hit 75 with out any issues but that is where you will run into root problems. 75+ Perfect temp for bacteria and pathogens
I do 3-4 frozen 2L frozen bottles for now lol. They bring it down by 3-4 degrees. I sit between 69-72. Your temps are super high at 85!! I don't think frozen bottles are going to do the trick. Your going to need a chiller.

 

[adower]

To add: Res temps should be between 60-70. I have hit 75 with out any issues but that is where you will run into root problems. 75+ Perfect temp for bacteria and pathnogins

I am suprised he has not had problems. His res temps are 85+ degrees and he has been working like that for two years plus.

 

[WestCoastMaster]

You can do several things. Water bottles are one but they're a head ache, pulling them out and freezing / re-freezing. You can also buy a chiller. They can be anywhere from $300-$1,000 dollars. I run a 1/2 hp chiller the chills my 55 gal res that feeds the nutes. You will need to run a separate 20 gallon reservoir for your water chiller. This chiller will cool the water in the 20 gallon chiller. Then you will need another pump to pump the water from the chilled reservoir through your coil in the main res with the nutes.

Edit* Make sure your coil is NOT copper. Get stainless steel.

I am suprised he has not had problems. His res temps are 85+ degrees and he has been working like that for two years plus.

BRO thank you for the advice, i was thinking about adding another rez of just RO water to keep the main nute rez topped off for if i leave town... Christmas comn up. So i can get a rez chiller used at my hydro store for about 300$ like you said. So i chill a separate 20gal rez... then does it re-serculate with the main one to keep it cool or how does that work?

Chiller with stainless steal tubing..check
another 20 gal rez..check
pump..check

So i guess my question is does it re-serculate with the main rez to keep it cool, or just how does that work, i cant picture it in my head.

I guess it would be a waist of time to try frozen bottles if it only drops a couple degrees.

I have a used A/C from craigslist, it runs off 15 amps, not 9, and i have used it to blow cool air directly into a grow tent while it sat on the concrete floor of my garage. A/C is not an option too much per month, and im going micro/stealth with this, im done with huge ops.

The problem I see here is the Turbo Garden has a flaw. The flood table sits on top of the rez doubling as a lid for it. Its a nice compact design but that in turn puts the rez right under the light. Making it hot. If I had built a ebb an flow like i planned, the rez would have been able to be in another room, thus not under all that heat. Live and learn, maybe i can build a little table for the flood tray to sit on, and make a lid for the rez, separate them...

I would rather chill the nutes. Like i said im trying to go super small and maximize WPF, every one and their dog down here has their damn card and every one grows. the market is flooded. 1oz=$100, if its chronic. Back home 350/oz. I do not condone in selling we are compensated for elec. bill, nute, soil, so on. Its all a donation to our patients, money is compensation.

 

[MrMeanGreen]

If you are growing in coco you do not need to flood every 3 hours, you will drown the roots. Once a day or less as coco retains fluid. Kinda contradicts doing hydro, you would be as well just using pots and water them. You will not get the same results as hydroton or DWC or NFT. The whole point of hydro is to inject masses of air to the roots whilst controlling what you feed them. You stil get that using coco but on a much lower level.