Astir Grow Led Panel Project...
- Thread starter stardustsailor
- Start date
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
The links were way too cool!Hmmm....
First things,first....
-Even if we knew everything about every wavelength of light,still it would be the worst option ,to supply these wavelengths ,using
different actinic leds ...(Monochromatic)....Most of them are unefficient and/or heavily dependant on Tj for effective operation...
Not to mention the spectral 'mixing' ( homogenizing ) difficulties and compromises...
-CO[SUB]2[/SUB] does not actually break into C & O[SUB]2[/SUB]...In,fact with the use of radioactive-isotopes ,we know that is the water that breaks (Photolysis)...
It has been proven that the O[SUB]2 [/SUB]evolved in PS originates from H2O, not from CO2.
-Resonance...Mhhh ...
The excitation energy in antenna pigments is transferred to the reaction center by fluorescence resonance
energy transfer, a non-radiative process with up to 95 to 99% energy transfer efficiency.
Let's see what other we know...
Light is funneled to two photosystems with the red-absorbing reaction center pigments P680 and P700
The light funnel consists of antenna pigments that absorb different colors of light.
By having P680 and P700 absorbing such long-wavelength/low-energy light, evolution has provided a pathway for photosynthesis to harvest virtually the entire visible spectrum!
"Emerson went on to study the effect of wavelength on photosynthesis. This kind of plot is sometimes called an "action spectrum", it shows how effectively various wavelengths drive photosynthesis. Superimposed on this plot we see the quantum yield as a function of wavelenth of the photons. In both sets of curves, you can see that photons of green wavelength are less efficient than those in blue and red wavelengths. Photons with wavelength beyond 700 lack sufficient energy to drive photosynthesis! Recall that blue wavelengths have higher energy than red wavelengths. This fact tells us that whatever pigments are involved in photosynthesis, they apparently have a minimum energy required to excite an electron that is found in a red photon. "
http://plantphys.info/plant_physiology/light.shtml
http://plantphys.info/plant_biology/photopart.shtml
Also.....
Shade Adaptations and Light Concentrating Mechanisms
Columnar superficial palisade cells allow efficient capturing of light despite the sieve effect (which arises
from gaps between chloroplasts that reduce absorption compared to chlorophyll in solution). Light
channeling may also divert light through the vacuole or the cell wall areas to facilitate transmission into
deeper layers of the leaf. The spongy mesophyll in the leaf interior has many reflecting interfaces which
cause light scattering and increase the probability for light absorption. Leaves of plants living in the
understory in dim light may have focusing mechanisms (convex epidermal cells) that focus the light
onto the chloroplasts. Trees have elaborate branching structures of leaves, which tend to maximize overall
light absorption by the plant. Plants competing for light in the understory may receive up to 50% of their
light as sunfleckstransient sun exposuresand can often rapidly ramp up PS and stomatal opening
during these brief events. Light reaching the understory is least depleted in the far red wavelengths compared to blue or red etc.
Many plants alter their leaf angles to track the position of the sun (solar
tracking), including alfalfa, cotton, soybean, lavatera, and lupine.
This is a blue light response, which is often controlled at the pulvinus found at the junction of the blade and the petiole,
and such leaves are called diaheliotropic. Such plants are often competing in short growing seasons.
Plants in deep shade often acclimate, but the plant (or at least the shade-adapted leaves) may not be able
to survive if the habitat becomes sunny, due to photoinhibition.
Here are general properties and tendencies of shade leaves compared to sun leaves:
have more total chlorophyll per reaction center
tend to be thinner, with thinner palisades
have less rubisco and less xanthophyll (which is photoprotective)
have higher ratio of PSI to PSII (3:1 compared to 2:1), or have more antenna chlorophyll in PSII. These
adaptations enhance light absorption and energy transfer to make better use of the relatively more
abundant far red light.
have lower rates of respiration (dark respiration) and lower Light Compensation Point
have lower maximum PS rates (saturation) that sun plants
.............................................................................................................................................
As for the relation Power to Efficency ,for leds...
The most efficient led dies are the 1 Watt chips..
The lower current,that drives a led ,the higher the efficiency,converting electricity into light!!!
Do not expect 3-5-10 Watt leds to be more efficient than 1 Watt led...
Instead, 10 x 1 Watt leds are far more powerful (and efficient) than 1 x 10 Watt led...
Plus ,the heat from multiple dies gets more easily dissipated ...
A 10 Watt led ,concentrates a lot of heat in a very small area...
Difficult to cool ,keep working efficiently and have a long operational(service ) life...
Probably,you save some money when buying...Nothing else...(Although ,asian 1 Watt leds cost less than .5$ ,per piece....)
Worth to give it try ,though....
Specs....
Asian leds ,also have data sheets....
But they do not 'fall' exactly ,on the sheets specs...
At least,not all of them..(the leds..)...
..
Although,the asian led makers, have already developed
plenty of methods( e.x. thicker phosphor layer-more quantity of phosphor) to make their leds more 'uniform' ,
regarding spectra, & output power( better quality of mirror,silicone,protective lens & better dies,ect)
Is this the current state of the art understanding?
"The bonding pattern in the ring system is resonant" Hmm, wonder if we can do something with this??
The antenna pigments, also have some possibilities for manipulation or optimization.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like this data is based on O2 production. (which is cool and as good a way as any, to measure what they are doing.)
What are the effects of different spectrum or mixes of spectrums of light on root growth, leaf growth, bud growth.....etc? Can we steer the plant through light manipulation? (well ya!!) but.....
For example, wouldn't it be just great, if you could hit your clones with just the right external stimuli, to just grow roots? To be able to modulate the stretch at the beginning of flower?
Just say'in.
I did learn all kinds of stuff from the links. It kind of left me with the feeling of how to tune a v8 for max power at max rpm(rarely do we run our cars at full blast), but all good stuff!
I agree with you, heat sinks are forever and diodes are throwaways. They are better fuses than fuses! Do passive cooling if you can.
What's the reliability index of a fan vs a chunk of aluminum?
agios
Member
guod
Well-Known Member
in theory below 1K, lets say +/- 1k for ease
no, but it is a good Way if you start a Design!
Leds: 48W; Fans: 2W
.....almost NEVER!.....
going to the limit..
http://ledsmagazine.com/features/4/8/1
..
Thermal design
With increasing power there is increased thermal load and more heat to dissipate. Higher temperatures of the LED light sources can result in reduced lumen maintenance and shorten useful life. When designing a new system, a heat sink should be selected with sufficient cooling capacity to keep the die junction below 125ºC.
If designing around an existing heat sink the maximum operating current for a given heat sink design is the lower of (1) The maximum rated current for the LED light source, or (2) The current to maintain the LED die junction temperature below the maximum specified temperature. LEDs generally must be operated at or below a junction temperature of 125°C.
-------------
What Cree says...
http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/products/xlamp/arrays-directional/xlamp-xml-easywhite
..
At just 4 watts of power, XM-L EasyWhite LEDs deliver up to 340 lumens at an operating temperature of 85°C in warm white (3000 K) in a single component. The XM-L EasyWhite LED is available in 2-step color points, which is the industrys tightest LED-to-LED color consistency offering, replicating the uniformity of incandescent light bulbs. Available in high-CRI options, XM-L EasyWhite LEDs are binned at 85°C to provide a single bin per color temperature.
my limit is more 60°C. and not for lifetime, more for the 630nm LEDs, they loose a lot at higher temps.
a nice Video over Simple Thermodynamics...in leds
part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs1HRvjZRKI&feature=related
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Nice info,indeed...
Well ,I still believe ,though,that passive cooling is much better than active cooling...
But....
That's just my belief...
48Watts ? ...Nice....
Can I ask what is your actual led arrangement (wattage/colors) ?
Well ,I still believe ,though,that passive cooling is much better than active cooling...
But....
That's just my belief...
48Watts ? ...Nice....
Can I ask what is your actual led arrangement (wattage/colors) ?
Jahulath
Member
Lol I agree with both of you, Sailor is totally right about Passive cooling as it is the most robust solution within limits but this is like saying that we should use silver for the wires in our homes because it has the highest conductivity... Guod has made a very elegant active cooling design and as you can see he has been through the same design process because he spent a lot of time thinking about disaster recovery. This is why he will not accept that Passive is the "Only" way. Nor should he because a good disaster recovery plan will make his panel last as long as the Astir design BUT Guod can probably make two for the price.
Personally (for what it's worth) in a PC active cooling is definitely the best by a long way. Passive becomes rather impractical because one is always at the mercy of ambient temperatures and with a handful of heat sources in a box these are generally higher than room temps. The basic dynamics are more or less the same, you have heat sources (LED Fan Pump etc) all packed into a box (cab or tent - less so room) and so the ambient temps in your grow room will rise.
Sailor if you haven't already scanned Guod's creations then bro you is missing a trick
Guod if you haven't approached Sailor about marketing your ideas then ditto. Just my 2 pennies worth but keep this dialogue going cos I am learning a LOT.
Thanks guys, peace.
PS: if you can tell me how to calculate thermal resistance into something I can comprehend like watts of heat that would be super awesome - I am a bit stuck by
Personally (for what it's worth) in a PC active cooling is definitely the best by a long way. Passive becomes rather impractical because one is always at the mercy of ambient temperatures and with a handful of heat sources in a box these are generally higher than room temps. The basic dynamics are more or less the same, you have heat sources (LED Fan Pump etc) all packed into a box (cab or tent - less so room) and so the ambient temps in your grow room will rise.
Sailor if you haven't already scanned Guod's creations then bro you is missing a trick
Guod if you haven't approached Sailor about marketing your ideas then ditto. Just my 2 pennies worth but keep this dialogue going cos I am learning a LOT.Thanks guys, peace.
PS: if you can tell me how to calculate thermal resistance into something I can comprehend like watts of heat that would be super awesome - I am a bit stuck by
RθJ-C
15 that is apparently my white LED design.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the very informative reply........I did a little reading on 660nm's role on c3 plants and it sounds like their are some generalizations in regards their specific requirements/ but yes you are correct
...so through all your research, you are suggesting an all white led panel (knna suggested their use years ago/cree xp-g nw) will cover most of the absorption rates of our beloved c3 plant?still have my doubts for flowering...yeah I've seen some growers struggle with finishing pure sats under leds/not recommendedHa.. was foolish to say "penetration" but it's one of those words thrown around by the led industry/sorry for the bs regurgitation......yes more watts with a single-point light source are easy to distinguish it's greater output..........and I've always believed multiple lower wattage panels are better suited for an indoor growing environment/even with HID!.....but it's incorrect to think that a 1watt led will be able to have the intensity/"throw" of 3-5w leds even with multiple light sources.. most of us aren't growing one plant and surrounding it with panels. Even with a well maintained canopy primary lens angle and led output are real factors in determining a successful yield as much as the proper wavelength/ mj can adapt to most light sources obviously...
Hans (the panel I own) did years of research on cannabis http://www.ledgrow.eu/ and found that adding 2 660nm (philips lumiled deep red) had very favorable results on root development as opposed to fr 710-730 under a controlled test..........I personally saw that late flowering stalled under the panel, but that may be due to the pheno I grew...........who knows, either way I love what your doing here........when are these panels expecting consumer release?????you talk about them being upgradeable, so they are modular??
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Penetration to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment (diffuse light???)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment (diffuse light???)
This is what I'm talking about!
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
"...you are suggesting an all white led panel (knna suggested their use years ago/cree xp-g nw) will cover most of the absorption rates of our beloved c3 plant?..."
[QUOTE]Equal-energetic spectrum ("white" light) or a spectrum similar to curve of the action spectrum of photosynthesis have been proposed for use as a universal spectra for plants growing under lamp lighting. The first might be chosen because of consideration of phylogenesis of plants, the second - because of research familiar to you (McCree, 1972; Inada, 1976). Either of these options could be accepted as a temporary compromise for initial research. I do not believe that we have to copy illumination of plants in natural conditions for use in controlled environment growing. For example there's no need to grow some species of plants under alternative light dark periods. Our research showed that productivity of some plants (radish, wheat) can be increased under continuous irradiation (Tikhomirov et al., 1976; Lisovsky et al., 1987). Also, we should not strictly aspire to duplicating morphophysiological characteristics of field grown plants. Thus, for example, we achieved a very large radish productivity when we sharply changed its photomorphogenesis (Tikhomirov et al., 1976). This is true for increasing cucumber productivity too. However, if we accept this concept, we must know where and how we should deviate from natural conditions to increase productivity of plants grown in controlled environments.
( From NASA Research team. http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.3 Tikhomirov/Tikhomirov text.htm )
[/QUOTE]
All the artificial lights used for plant illumination ,up till now,were/are different 'shades' (temperatures) of white light...
Why leds should be different ?
Why should be mix of monochromatic(actinic) leds ?
Nasa research team ,suggested that they are a lot that we are not aware of ,regarding other wavelengths ,except blue & red..
We do not know everything about the relation,between light & plants.....
Using just red & blue as primary wls is not the way...
White light is the right way....
Or at least, proven to work ,just fine...
Yes.
I suggest that all one needs, are only the 3 basic white leds ...
(Cool-Neutral-Warm ).
Nothing else..
Maybe just a bit of 620-640 red...But just a bit....
...
...
".....but it's foolish to think that a 1watt led will be able to have the intensity/"throw" of 3-5w leds even with multiple light sources.. most of us aren't growing one plant and surrounding it with panels. Even with a well maintained canopy primary lens angle and led output are real factors in determining a successful yield as much as the proper wavelength/ mj can adapt to most light sources obviously..."
At the end of this grow ,we will now how foolish is .......
No.Neither powerful leds are needed ,neither lenses....
All you need is what leds have to give you....
Multiple light sources...
Many of them...
All you need ,are many small-powered leds....
Otherwise you 'return back',to the 'philosophy' of single-point lighting...
(That's foolish...)
And no....I could have grown more plants with just 2 panels....
The yield would be approx. the same...
No matter if it was one plant (big) or ten (smaller ones)....
More yield needs more panels...
Simple enough....
In led growing it is not the raw mean power that 'counts'...
'Cause they give you the ability to be everywhere...
Moreover you don't need that much power...( It can have opposite from desired effects..)
You need their good spectum and (again ) the ability to be placed ,wherever they are needed...
So what you really need is numbers...
A lot of leds...
That's how they work....
Trying to make a single-point light source with leds (by using power-consuming lenses or powerful but unefficient-really-leds ),
it's like buying a Ferrari to carry around (tow) your boat, when going for fishing...
You have other artificial light sources ,for single-point illumination....
And for sure, they do the job ,better than leds....
As for my current grow....
I would have never believed anyone,if he/she was to tell me ,that the plant ,inside my tent,
having suffered so much(I wish you could see the grow from the beggining ...)in the recent past , flowered up to 5th week like that,
under 44 Watts of leds(now 66 )...
It has 5 more weeks to go....With 66 Watts,from the end of 5th(flowering) week ....
Almost only with white leds...(Mainly warms )
Already,just by looks ,it has (at least) 20-25 gr (if dried) of buds...At 70cm height...With a really bad "past" & present...
(I managed to burn away almost all the old fan leaves and the new ones don't seem so healthy...F#*&ing Tween 20....)
I have 11 of these 22 Watt panels....
Eager to put them in use pretty soon...
And anything less of 240 gr will be unacceptable....
Soon...
[QUOTE]Equal-energetic spectrum ("white" light) or a spectrum similar to curve of the action spectrum of photosynthesis have been proposed for use as a universal spectra for plants growing under lamp lighting. The first might be chosen because of consideration of phylogenesis of plants, the second - because of research familiar to you (McCree, 1972; Inada, 1976). Either of these options could be accepted as a temporary compromise for initial research. I do not believe that we have to copy illumination of plants in natural conditions for use in controlled environment growing. For example there's no need to grow some species of plants under alternative light dark periods. Our research showed that productivity of some plants (radish, wheat) can be increased under continuous irradiation (Tikhomirov et al., 1976; Lisovsky et al., 1987). Also, we should not strictly aspire to duplicating morphophysiological characteristics of field grown plants. Thus, for example, we achieved a very large radish productivity when we sharply changed its photomorphogenesis (Tikhomirov et al., 1976). This is true for increasing cucumber productivity too. However, if we accept this concept, we must know where and how we should deviate from natural conditions to increase productivity of plants grown in controlled environments.
( From NASA Research team. http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.3 Tikhomirov/Tikhomirov text.htm )
[/QUOTE]
All the artificial lights used for plant illumination ,up till now,were/are different 'shades' (temperatures) of white light...
Why leds should be different ?
Why should be mix of monochromatic(actinic) leds ?
Nasa research team ,suggested that they are a lot that we are not aware of ,regarding other wavelengths ,except blue & red..
We do not know everything about the relation,between light & plants.....
Using just red & blue as primary wls is not the way...
White light is the right way....
Or at least, proven to work ,just fine...
Yes.
I suggest that all one needs, are only the 3 basic white leds ...
(Cool-Neutral-Warm ).
Nothing else..
Maybe just a bit of 620-640 red...But just a bit....
...
...
".....but it's foolish to think that a 1watt led will be able to have the intensity/"throw" of 3-5w leds even with multiple light sources.. most of us aren't growing one plant and surrounding it with panels. Even with a well maintained canopy primary lens angle and led output are real factors in determining a successful yield as much as the proper wavelength/ mj can adapt to most light sources obviously..."
At the end of this grow ,we will now how foolish is .......
No.Neither powerful leds are needed ,neither lenses....
All you need is what leds have to give you....
Multiple light sources...
Many of them...
All you need ,are many small-powered leds....
Otherwise you 'return back',to the 'philosophy' of single-point lighting...
(That's foolish...)
And no....I could have grown more plants with just 2 panels....
The yield would be approx. the same...
No matter if it was one plant (big) or ten (smaller ones)....
More yield needs more panels...
Simple enough....
In led growing it is not the raw mean power that 'counts'...
'Cause they give you the ability to be everywhere...
Moreover you don't need that much power...( It can have opposite from desired effects..)
You need their good spectum and (again ) the ability to be placed ,wherever they are needed...
So what you really need is numbers...
A lot of leds...
That's how they work....
Trying to make a single-point light source with leds (by using power-consuming lenses or powerful but unefficient-really-leds ),
it's like buying a Ferrari to carry around (tow) your boat, when going for fishing...
You have other artificial light sources ,for single-point illumination....
And for sure, they do the job ,better than leds....
As for my current grow....
I would have never believed anyone,if he/she was to tell me ,that the plant ,inside my tent,
having suffered so much(I wish you could see the grow from the beggining ...)in the recent past , flowered up to 5th week like that,
under 44 Watts of leds(now 66 )...
It has 5 more weeks to go....With 66 Watts,from the end of 5th(flowering) week ....
Almost only with white leds...(Mainly warms )
Already,just by looks ,it has (at least) 20-25 gr (if dried) of buds...At 70cm height...With a really bad "past" & present...
(I managed to burn away almost all the old fan leaves and the new ones don't seem so healthy...F#*&ing Tween 20....)
I have 11 of these 22 Watt panels....
Eager to put them in use pretty soon...
And anything less of 240 gr will be unacceptable....
Soon...
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Oh yes....
I forgot to mention about roots and 660nm leds....
Yes,they make the roots grow like crazy...
In favor of shoots..
It changes dramatically and drastically the root/shoot ratio...(used to have 4x 660 per panel...)
If you are growing for roots ,that's fine...
-I heard that placing them over broken bones ,promotes healing.-
But,I grow for buds (flowers)....
I care more about the " shoot" part of the ratio...
Don't know for clones though...
660 leds do a lot of other 'things',too ....
Not necessarily in favor of plant growth...
My tests and experiments showed that ,especially mj doesn't like them,at all....
Every time,all my plants ,said to me : " What da fak iz dat ? No way,mate..Take dat red shit away..."
I forgot to mention about roots and 660nm leds....
Yes,they make the roots grow like crazy...
In favor of shoots..
It changes dramatically and drastically the root/shoot ratio...(used to have 4x 660 per panel...)
If you are growing for roots ,that's fine...
-I heard that placing them over broken bones ,promotes healing.-
But,I grow for buds (flowers)....
I care more about the " shoot" part of the ratio...
Don't know for clones though...
660 leds do a lot of other 'things',too ....
Not necessarily in favor of plant growth...
My tests and experiments showed that ,especially mj doesn't like them,at all....
Every time,all my plants ,said to me : " What da fak iz dat ? No way,mate..Take dat red shit away..."
puffenuff
Well-Known Member
Good 630's will cover enough of the +660nm range. My 6500k plus 630nm vegged and flowered wonderfully.but then again, so do the 470+630 lights. Then again, so do the panels with r/b/g/y/w. I don't think mj is as picky as some are saying. I don't think there is a magic recipe of nm configurations to grow the best mj possible, but I do feel like there are wrong spectrums that can be used.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Yes ,you are right,about the spectrums...
Mj and generally all of the C3 plants adapt easily to different lights....
At least for photosynthesis ....
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.4 Prikupets/Prikupets text.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.1 Geiger/Geiger text.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.1 Geiger/Geiger text.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.5 Bugbee/Bugbee text.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/2.3 Ballare/Ballare Text.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/2.4 King/King text.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/5.1 Deitzer/Deitzer text only.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/5.11 Bula/Bula text.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/8.1 Guidelines/Guidelines text.htm
But...
There is the 'economic' part of every spectum selection..
Which is more efficient ,concerning yields / energy consumed ( gr / kWh )
And there are ,BIG differences amongst various choises of spectrums and leds....
Moreover you have photomorphogenesis,phototropism,circadian cycle,terpene-cannabinoid biosynthesis ..To name a few...
And yes...They depend almost ABSOLUTELY on given spectrum....
And yes....660 nm leds ,belong to the 'wrong' choises of leds....
Along with greens,ambers,yellows and far-reds....
For various reasons,each one of them.....
Jahulath
Member
Dude, you have 11 of these panels? Thats like a $1000 of aluminum right there. I'm not convinced this product is going to sell too well - people buy bells, whistles, and specification in my experience (as a consumer) so this will be seen as a fairly low powered solution by the average joe and kinda expensive with it, you may get lucky with some serious (and I mean serious!) advertising and if you can get some good "Show Grows" in places like this then you will be on the road but beware - you don't want to end up trying to sell these:
The Zalman "Silent and Fanless PC Case" it is an amazing bit of kit, you can essentially run a PC without fans (Well nearly if I remember right) they work really good too. The problem is that for the price of one of these you could buy 30 PC cases or two high spec gaming rigs AND you are still at the mercy of ambient temps so if you live next door to Gastanker you are shit out of luck (meant with respect and affection Gas).
I don't mean to piss on your parade (and genuinely all of this is said to be helpful) but it's an important thing to think about before you find you've blown all ure cash on prototypes!
Just one more question - how many CPU fans have you actually seen actually fail and stop turning (Not anecdotal - you personally) I think I've seen one in 10 years of working,building,fixing,owning.
OMFG look what you posted whilst I was writing that - you are undoubtedly the man Sailor! If it's ok with you I'll add them to my useful research links.
The Zalman "Silent and Fanless PC Case" it is an amazing bit of kit, you can essentially run a PC without fans (Well nearly if I remember right) they work really good too. The problem is that for the price of one of these you could buy 30 PC cases or two high spec gaming rigs AND you are still at the mercy of ambient temps so if you live next door to Gastanker you are shit out of luck (meant with respect and affection Gas).
I don't mean to piss on your parade (and genuinely all of this is said to be helpful) but it's an important thing to think about before you find you've blown all ure cash on prototypes!
Just one more question - how many CPU fans have you actually seen actually fail and stop turning (Not anecdotal - you personally) I think I've seen one in 10 years of working,building,fixing,owning.
OMFG look what you posted whilst I was writing that - you are undoubtedly the man Sailor! If it's ok with you I'll add them to my useful research links.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well..I'm not planning to be a businessman or ..rich ,by them....
11 panels cost about 600€ ( approx. 790$ ).....
And no....It's not a product yet...
It's custom,hand-made,still under development and under constant change...
And if and when it's going to be a product ,is not going to be for everyone...
Not all people have the ability or the will to grow with 'surrounding' illumination..
But there are some...And still on waiting list...
And believe me...
Already ,there are many -x00- ,that have tried to place an order...
Some members here can back-up my claim!
You see ,I'm not the only one that is testing them....
There are 4 or 5 groups of growers(yes,correct..Groups,not individuals ) that they are testing them also....
Amazed by how good they are....
And still they are at their 'birth' stage...
Some people don't like the noise of fans...
Others they hate them...For many reasons....
(Personally ,I have long hair and some really awful experiences with fans!!!
...)And a computer's fans ,probably they don't work for 24 or 12 hours ,every day,at full speed....
For many years,in a row...
...
I know...
I have pc fans for circulating air in my tent....
Awful piece of equipment...Noisy & dirty ,but can't do without 'em...
So...When I have the opportunity not to put a fan,I always use that opportunity....
The less moving parts,the better...
No matter the cost...
Jahulath
Member
Fair enough 
I've lived with PC noise for so long I actually miss it when it's off (yeah I know it's a sickness) and can vouch for the insane longevity of them even with gallons of greasy pipe smoke in the air 
years yes - many years no, not at 100% efficacy. Also Euros would mean you probably don't deal with heat like here? It is a great looking product, a bit of scratching around will show you that I also support passive but sadly my pocket doesn't and nor does my thirst for power lol. It will also show you not to pay me too much heed, nothing but a well meaning nerd.
Peace bro.
I've lived with PC noise for so long I actually miss it when it's off (yeah I know it's a sickness) and can vouch for the insane longevity of them even with gallons of greasy pipe smoke in the air years yes - many years no, not at 100% efficacy. Also Euros would mean you probably don't deal with heat like here? It is a great looking product, a bit of scratching around will show you that I also support passive but sadly my pocket doesn't and nor does my thirst for power lol. It will also show you not to pay me too much heed, nothing but a well meaning nerd.Peace bro.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Oh,no-no-no...
What you say(write,actually) is correct...
Your thoughts haven't any 'flaws'....
But,then again....
Everything is a matter of choise...
How well ,our choise will fit to our needs...
For ex. 5 of these will cost about 390 $ (approx) ...
But then you have 110 Watts of led ,divided in 5 panels ,with passive cooling...
If they are going to give you an average yield of 100 gr....
I think ,it's a good deal....
Where I live we deal with over 40° C(in shade) during summertime...
( Somewhere in Southern Europe....
In a poor country with really loooong history in mj cultivation....
We 've been cultivating mj ,for over 2000 years...
And some of our wild 'landstrains' ,are really dynamites .... )
Have you heard about a wild landstrain called Aragonian ?
What you say(write,actually) is correct...
Your thoughts haven't any 'flaws'....
But,then again....
Everything is a matter of choise...
How well ,our choise will fit to our needs...
For ex. 5 of these will cost about 390 $ (approx) ...
But then you have 110 Watts of led ,divided in 5 panels ,with passive cooling...
If they are going to give you an average yield of 100 gr....
I think ,it's a good deal....
Where I live we deal with over 40° C(in shade) during summertime...
( Somewhere in Southern Europe....
In a poor country with really loooong history in mj cultivation....
We 've been cultivating mj ,for over 2000 years...
And some of our wild 'landstrains' ,are really dynamites .... )
Have you heard about a wild landstrain called Aragonian ?
Jahulath
Member
Sorry never heard of that one - only the lizard people in Skyrim (Argonians lol) I've been a few places in Europe, Spain was probably my favorite closely followed by Italy, France was a bit erm... French. I have a plan to make myself a 220w panel for $100 - I'm a spot over budget and still have some bits to get (switches mainly) but I can also cheat because stuff like PC fans (in fact pretty much anything you can find on a computer desk) are free to me. Ain't no way I can cool those bad boys passively but it'll be irrelevant on account of the jet engine exhaust in my cab.
Ta leme.
Ta leme.