samsonite17
Member
Also, do you guys think that I can scrap the light rails. I would rather not use them if I don't need them. 600w is supposed to cover a 6x6 area right? So 2 should be fine for 12 plants?
New grower, I need help with lighting.
- Thread starter samsonite17
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PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Well its a weird room layout so this is my suggestion.....first I absolutely agree about keeping them TRAINED against one side of the wall (It's imperative that you can reach them/no doubt)......Now the lighting(this will be controversial to some) run three evenly spaced 330w philips energy advantage CMH http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmallstart.htm vertically hung with horizontal reflectors facing the plant side wall/ these ONLY run on magnetic MH ballasts(get remote ballasted/ put them outside of the room through a hole/etc.).....you will be drawing less watts than two 600w.... and 330w puts out way more par/umol per watt than a 600w hps/mh whatever...so three of these will crush that space and CMH bulbs are easier to cool......good luck
somebody1701
Well-Known Member
I looked into light rails and they looked like they were expensive, a pain in the ass to install, and take up room which you don't have much of vertically. So I definitely would not go with light rails. I mean, for the prices I saw, you could just buy two more 600w lights for close to the same price.
Given those very slight differences in cost between the 250s and the 400s, I would go with 600W too. If they are dimmable, that would let you run them at lower power producing less heat if that became an issue.
The problem you face is that most reflectors throw light furthest towards the long side. So to get even decent linear coverage you would need to put the light so that the short sides of the reflector was pointing towards the closest walls which isn't possible in your room given that it's only 2ft wide. If there were any reasonably priced LEDs, I would suggest those because the 240W (actual draw is 135) Blackstars I have would be great for your space. But they cost way too much per watt, IMO -- $280 a piece -- and you would need 5 or 6 at least.
If you went with 250s (which match the 2ft width of your room), you would need one every 2 to 2.5 feet so you are looking at a ton of lights there too. 600s you would need to put one every 3 to 3.5 feet. So you would need 4 or 5.
Even with a vertical SCROG going up one side and your lights on the opposing wall, since it's so narrow, not sure your lights will be far enough away. I've just read about vertical lighting so I really don't have a good idea on how well that would work in your space. I think that's what PSAUGRO is suggesting.
So, after writing all this, I would definitely go with 2 or 3 dimmable 600 watt HIDs for my flower area and one for my veg area.
I think you need to plan on venting the lights too unless you live on a glacier.
Given those very slight differences in cost between the 250s and the 400s, I would go with 600W too. If they are dimmable, that would let you run them at lower power producing less heat if that became an issue.
The problem you face is that most reflectors throw light furthest towards the long side. So to get even decent linear coverage you would need to put the light so that the short sides of the reflector was pointing towards the closest walls which isn't possible in your room given that it's only 2ft wide. If there were any reasonably priced LEDs, I would suggest those because the 240W (actual draw is 135) Blackstars I have would be great for your space. But they cost way too much per watt, IMO -- $280 a piece -- and you would need 5 or 6 at least.
If you went with 250s (which match the 2ft width of your room), you would need one every 2 to 2.5 feet so you are looking at a ton of lights there too. 600s you would need to put one every 3 to 3.5 feet. So you would need 4 or 5.
Even with a vertical SCROG going up one side and your lights on the opposing wall, since it's so narrow, not sure your lights will be far enough away. I've just read about vertical lighting so I really don't have a good idea on how well that would work in your space. I think that's what PSAUGRO is suggesting.
So, after writing all this, I would definitely go with 2 or 3 dimmable 600 watt HIDs for my flower area and one for my veg area.
I think you need to plan on venting the lights too unless you live on a glacier.
samsonite17
Member
OK thanks for the input guys. Do you guys think that 2 600w hps is ok for flowering the 12 plants? I would prefer not to use three simply because of the energy cost, but I can if that is the best option. Also can I get by without doing a scrog grow? Or would you guys recommend it?
And about training the plant, what exactly does that mean? Does that just mean putting a rope or string around the base of the plant to keep it closer to one wall?
And about training the plant, what exactly does that mean? Does that just mean putting a rope or string around the base of the plant to keep it closer to one wall?
cues
Well-Known Member
I mentioned the light mover because of the energy costs.
It might take a couple of grows to pay for itself but.............That's my attitude to growing as when I started I had more money than sense (not the case now!) but at least I bought all the kit (hydro etc) when I could afford it. Now I struggle with paying for the nutes and electric hence I've downgraded watts (use my old veg light) but am trying to keep the amount of smoke I get the same.
Training could take on several guises but I would go for wire mesh (2" holes). Not sure what it's called (get mine off a builder mate)
Scrog or not? My first grow (600hps) was not. Got 10oz. Second (scrog) got 16oz. Now, with a bit more experience, I am dissapointed to have only pulled 6oz off a 250w U-scrog grow. The only problem is that during late veg/stretch you need to be prepared to spend half an hour a day in there training.
My next step is hopefully to go vertical but I am determined to nail this to a GPW first.
Scrog isn't hard. You soon get a feel for it. It's just about tucking the fan leaves behind the screen and pulling the tips out to the next hole every couple of days. Within a week you'll be doing it blindfolded.
The only thing hard about it is judging when to stop training/flip to 12/12. That's what we're here for. Just post a pic when ready and we can all help.
The trouble with flipping is it varies between strains but once you get a strain nailed (I have yet to do this, I keep changing), sorted.
P.S. Biggest tip by far. Learn to clone. Practise on house/garden plants. Clematis is a good one.
It might take a couple of grows to pay for itself but.............That's my attitude to growing as when I started I had more money than sense (not the case now!) but at least I bought all the kit (hydro etc) when I could afford it. Now I struggle with paying for the nutes and electric hence I've downgraded watts (use my old veg light) but am trying to keep the amount of smoke I get the same.
Training could take on several guises but I would go for wire mesh (2" holes). Not sure what it's called (get mine off a builder mate)
Scrog or not? My first grow (600hps) was not. Got 10oz. Second (scrog) got 16oz. Now, with a bit more experience, I am dissapointed to have only pulled 6oz off a 250w U-scrog grow. The only problem is that during late veg/stretch you need to be prepared to spend half an hour a day in there training.
My next step is hopefully to go vertical but I am determined to nail this to a GPW first.
Scrog isn't hard. You soon get a feel for it. It's just about tucking the fan leaves behind the screen and pulling the tips out to the next hole every couple of days. Within a week you'll be doing it blindfolded.
The only thing hard about it is judging when to stop training/flip to 12/12. That's what we're here for. Just post a pic when ready and we can all help.
The trouble with flipping is it varies between strains but once you get a strain nailed (I have yet to do this, I keep changing), sorted.
P.S. Biggest tip by far. Learn to clone. Practise on house/garden plants. Clematis is a good one.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Yes trained up against the side of the wall(like a trellis)....you need to get to the plants!!, even doing this it will be hard to reach them during flowering.....you have no option but to run the bulbs vertically for your room type....running three-four 330w allstart cmh bulbs vertically in cool tube reflectors will work in your width dimensions. You can try bare bulb first, but like somebody1701 said it probably will be too close for comfort....the cool tubes will work even without drawing the heat from the reflectors directly / it will passively escape out of the top of the tube through convection.....YOU WILL need a massive exhaust fan to keep your temps in check/ no question.....good luck
samsonite17
Member
OK for right now can somebody help me with my setup for the seedlings/veg station. So I am going to make the first part of the room the veg/seedling area. There is 2 feet along the wall and then a pipe. I thought that this would be good for seedlings. The roof is 7 feet tall. How many rows would I be able to make to grow the seedlings?
Then on the other side of the pipe would be the veg area. I think that I can probably grow 12 plants (12 in flowering and 12 in vegging and some seedlings all at the same time). So how much room do I need for vegging? It would be on two tiers (maybe 3 if you guys think there is enough room). How long do they usually grow to before people flower them (I'm growing mostly black widow)?
I would say that I need around 10 feet of wall space to flower (I can put 12 plants by putting two on the far side of the wall so that I can still water them). So I would have about 5 ft of space for the vegging area. So could I fit 6 plants on each row?
And should I use HID for vegging? Or would there not be enough room?
I can just use cfls for seedlings right? How many cfls and what wattage should I use for the seedlings?
Then on the other side of the pipe would be the veg area. I think that I can probably grow 12 plants (12 in flowering and 12 in vegging and some seedlings all at the same time). So how much room do I need for vegging? It would be on two tiers (maybe 3 if you guys think there is enough room). How long do they usually grow to before people flower them (I'm growing mostly black widow)?
I would say that I need around 10 feet of wall space to flower (I can put 12 plants by putting two on the far side of the wall so that I can still water them). So I would have about 5 ft of space for the vegging area. So could I fit 6 plants on each row?
And should I use HID for vegging? Or would there not be enough room?
I can just use cfls for seedlings right? How many cfls and what wattage should I use for the seedlings?
samsonite17
Member
I am planning on germinating my seeds today so I want to be able to set up this area pretty quickly. So any advice would be greatly appreciated. Do most people just use cups for the seedlings?
samsonite17
Member
Thanks for the response. Any advice on the seedling/vegging room. I think I am going to buy lights tomorrow for the seedlings, so what do you guys think that I should buy?
samsonite17
Member
So I have 3 t5 2' 14w fixtures for 18 plants. Is that enough? And I looked at vertical growing. Is there a reason that you can't use a reflector on a vertical grow? Since my lights would only be facing one side, it seems like it would be a lot more efficient.
And for the screen, I would put that vertically, rather than horizontally right?
And for the screen, I would put that vertically, rather than horizontally right?
samsonite17
Member
And how long should I wait before putting the seedlings under a mh light?