Regular or Femenized?

[Opm]

i disagree.. there is no hermie trait, the only reason it forms male stamen is the introduction of a chemical.. i can google who it works, but it has something about the chemical halting the formation of female pistils and growing male stamens.. it's the chemical making the male bits, not genetics...

That's like saying I can spray you with a chemical and you will grow a leaf. The biological instructions have to be there in the first place to do it. The chemical just triggers it.

 

[Trousers]

Here is how this works (in really simplistic terms) Plants are bred for certain traits. To make those traits dominant parents (male and female) are selected both having that trait and bred. Their offspring are then sorted by that trait and the a male and female with the desired trait are bred together. This is done for many generations to assure that a higher and higher percentage of those offspring express that trait. After they get a stable breed with dominate traits they are looking for. they hermie the plant to get those feminized seeds. Now you grow that plant and it hermies on you because the last step of that breeding selected the hermie gene as dominant. This percentage is small but it is HIGHER than a non feminized because it hasn't been bred for that trait inadvertantly or not.

So your assumption is false.

You are wrongly assuming that stress can be passed on to the next generation. It can not.
What is the "hermie gene" you are talking about?
Do you mean with an X and a Y chromosome?

 

[Opm]

You are wrongly assuming that stress can be passed on to the next generation. It can not.
What is the "hermie gene" you are talking about?
Do you mean with an X and a Y chromosome?

Not stress, the hermie gene.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_aK7dTNS1qkC&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=hermaphrodite+gene+cannabis&source=bl&ots=A-FkDA39x1&sig=HbWBEz2V6a-0JW7bWcHt96hBTos&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FghrULuNLIeoyAGFi4H4CQ&ved=0CGEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=hermaphrodite%20gene%20cannabis&f=false

 

[nick88]

Be aware that feminized seeds can be unstable and too much stress to the plant can cause them to hermie. The non-fem'd seem to take a lot more stress.

Ben using fem seeds from MOC for the last cpl yrs both indoor and outdoor. Have never had 1 hermie. All depends on the genetics of strain not whether its feminized or not, and the over all health of the plant at time of stress

 

[Trousers]

That was an interesting read, thanks for the link.
It doesn't help your argument. I said pretty much what they did, in simpler terms.
If a plant has XX or XXXX chromosomes, it is not a hermaphrodite. It can be stressed into producing male flowers, but the resulting seeds, if crossed with a plant that was XXXX, will be feminized. Those plants would have XXXX chromosomes.
If you get genetics that are XXXY you could of course get a hermaphrodite. I did not say anything counter to that.

I agree with the summary where they say you can't reject epigamic or genetic thought when talking about sex determination. They both influence sex.
at the same time, if you stress an XXXX, it can not produce offspring that have a Y chromosome unless the plant it is crossed with has a Y in there somewhere.

Some varieties are more likely to have hermaphrodites.

If you take a variety that is not likely to have hermaphrodites, how does making feminized seeds from that make it more likely to produce hermaphrodites?
It doesn't make any sense, especially after reading that article.

By removing the Y chromosomes it would seem like you would be less likely to have non-stress induced hermaphrodites than with regular seeds.

 

[nick88]

Here is how this works (in really simplistic terms) Plants are bred for certain traits. To make those traits dominant parents (male and female) are selected both having that trait and bred. Their offspring are then sorted by that trait and the a male and female with the desired trait are bred together. This is done for many generations to assure that a higher and higher percentage of those offspring express that trait. After they get a stable breed with dominate traits they are looking for. they hermie the plant to get those feminized seeds. Now you grow that plant and it hermies on you because the last step of that breeding selected the hermie gene as dominant. This percentage is small but it is HIGHER than a non feminized because it hasn't been bred for that trait inadvertantly or not.

So your assumption is false.

Who told you the seedbanks get fem seeds by stressing plants til they hermie? That has got to be the craziest shit i have ever heard. They produce fem seeds by chemically treating the seeds.

 

[Trousers]

I produce feminized seeds by spraying female plants with colloidal silver. The sprayed branches produce male flowers. The resulting seeds are feminized.

I have never heard of treating seeds to produce feminized seeds.

 

[nick88]

I produce feminized seeds by spraying female plants with colloidal silver. The sprayed branches produce male flowers. The resulting seeds are feminized.

I have never heard of treating seeds to produce feminized seeds.

My bad, i knew the fems were made using colloidal silver, just thought they treated the seeds with it.

 

[Straightjacket]

If a plant is not stressed and shows flowers of both sexes, that is a hermaphrodite.
A feminized seed does not have male chromosomes, so it can't really be a hermaphrodite. A natural hermaphrodite will have both X and Y chromosomes. A plant that is from feminized seeds will not have the Y chromosome that produces males.
If you stress a plant that is the result of a feminized seed and it shows pollen sacks, the pollen will create feminized seeds.

If you get seeds made from a plant that naturally turns into a hermaphrodite without being stressed, the resulting seeds will be either male, female or hermaphrodite.

Can I download me a chromozone viewer on the internet or somethin? It would save me a lot a time if I could just git a look at them there chromazones.

 

[Opm]

Who told you the seedbanks get fem seeds by stressing plants til they hermie? That has got to be the craziest shit i have ever heard. They produce fem seeds by chemically treating the seeds.

They don't spray the seed with anything. They spray the plant with gibberellic acid which is a growth hormone to get it to seed itself.

 

[Opm]

That was an interesting read, thanks for the link.
It doesn't help your argument. I said pretty much what they did, in simpler terms.
If a plant has XX or XXXX chromosomes, it is not a hermaphrodite. It can be stressed into producing male flowers, but the resulting seeds, if crossed with a plant that was XXXX, will be feminized. Those plants would have XXXX chromosomes.
If you get genetics that are XXXY you could of course get a hermaphrodite. I did not say anything counter to that.

I agree with the summary where they say you can't reject epigamic or genetic thought when talking about sex determination. They both influence sex.
at the same time, if you stress an XXXX, it can not produce offspring that have a Y chromosome unless the plant it is crossed with has a Y in there somewhere.

Some varieties are more likely to have hermaphrodites.

If you take a variety that is not likely to have hermaphrodites, how does making feminized seeds from that make it more likely to produce hermaphrodites?
It doesn't make any sense, especially after reading that article.

By removing the Y chromosomes it would seem like you would be less likely to have non-stress induced hermaphrodites than with regular seeds.

They used to call them female seeds but when people took them home to grow them and stressed them they would get males and hermaphrodites. So now they call them feminized and if grown under optimal conditions will be almost entirely female. I don't know How I can explain it much differently. You spent X generations breeding for bud buds, or whatever, and then the last step in the breeding is making it breed with itself. Making it breed with itself is pushing that gene into dominance just like you pushed the big bud gene into dominance.

Let's try it this way. Say you want to breed a plant to be 99% hermaphrodite. How would you do it? You would spray a plant with gibb... acid. Take the seeds it produced plant one and spray that daughter/son plant with gibb acid. And again and again. Until 10 er so generations later just about any seed comming off that plant will be hermaphrodite even if grown under optimal conditions.

 

[Trousers]

They used to call them female seeds but when people took them home to grow them and stressed them they would get males and hermaphrodites.

When you stress regular seedlings you get males and hermaphrodites. What is your point? Stress does not directly affect genetics. Stressing a plant does not change its dna.

So now they call them feminized and if grown under optimal conditions will be almost entirely female.

No. If the properly produced seeds are grown under regular conditions, they will be female.

I don't know How I can explain it much differently.

You are making stuff up based on what you have heard.

You spent X generations breeding for bud buds, or whatever, and then the last step in the breeding is making it breed with itself. Making it breed with itself is pushing that gene into dominance just like you pushed the big bud gene into dominance.

You still do not have a grasp on it, keep trying, you'll get it.
Can you show me anything that backs your fantasy up? Femized seeds are just as likely, if not less likely to "herm" than regular seeds.
How many herms from fem seeds have you grown? how many fem seeds have you produced?

Let's try it this way. Say you want to breed a plant to be 99% hermaphrodite. How would you do it? You would spray a plant with gibb... acid.

That would not work. Assuming you are spraying a female plant, you would produce male flowers that do not have the Y chromosome. The resulting seeds would be feminized.

You are arguing about something you do not understand.

Colloidal silver is more common now.

Take the seeds it produced plant one and spray that daughter/son plant with gibb acid. And again and again. Until 10 er so generations later just about any seed comming off that plant will be hermaphrodite even if grown under optimal conditions.

Absolutely not. You could not be more wrong.
Again, you do not understand what you are arguing about. You did not understand the article you posted either.

Explain it any way you want and you are still wrong.

 

[Opm]

Cannabis is a monoecious plant. It contains both X AND Y until maturity.

"Selfed hermaphrodites usually give rise to hermaphrodite offspring."
"Hermaphrodite parents often produce hermaphrodite offspring and this may not be desirable."
http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/botany_guide.php

Now show my your proof otherwise.

 

[Trousers]

Cannabis is a monoecious plant. It contains both X AND Y until maturity.

"Selfed hermaphrodites usually give rise to hermaphrodite offspring."
"Hermaphrodite parents often produce hermaphrodite offspring and this may not be desirable."
http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/botany_guide.php

Now show my your proof otherwise.

I don't know where you got that, there are some problems with it. I'll pass on your source, if they do know that cannabis is a predominately dioecious plant. There is nothing in your source to back up your opinion.

You made the claim that feminized seeds are more likely to "hermi" and you have not backed it up with anything.

You still do not understand there are different kinds of hermaphrodites.
If you take a clone of a mature female plant, it should have two X chromosomes and no Y chromosomes.
Cannabis is diploid.

If a plant is not stressed and turns into a hermaphrodite and then self pollinates the seeds will either be male, female or hermaphrodite.

That has nothing to do with feminized seeds.

I'll say it again.
Stressing a female plant that has good genetics does not change the genetics.
If you stress a plant with good genetics into producing pollen, that pollen will only have XX chromosomes.
If you pollinate a female plant with good genetics with that pollen you will get feminized seeds.
Those seeds have no better chance of being hermaphrodites than their parents would have if they had not been stressed.
Stress is not passed on in the dna.

 

[aWes0m3]

the colloidal silver causes a genetic mutation which forces hermaphroditism. DNA and genetics affect everything, and everything affects DNA and genetics.

 

[Trousers]

 

[Edgar9]

Since I got a D- in college genetics I'll stay out of this conversation.

 

[Opm]

I don't know where you got that, there are some problems with it. I'll pass on your source, if they do know that cannabis is a predominately dioecious plant. There is nothing in your source to back up your opinion.

You made the claim that feminized seeds are more likely to "hermi" and you have not backed it up with anything.

You still do not understand there are different kinds of hermaphrodites.
If you take a clone of a mature female plant, it should have two X chromosomes and no Y chromosomes.
Cannabis is diploid.

If a plant is not stressed and turns into a hermaphrodite and then self pollinates the seeds will either be male, female or hermaphrodite.

That has nothing to do with feminized seeds.

I'll say it again.
Stressing a female plant that has good genetics does not change the genetics.
If you stress a plant with good genetics into producing pollen, that pollen will only have XX chromosomes.
If you pollinate a female plant with good genetics with that pollen you will get feminized seeds.
Those seeds have no better chance of being hermaphrodites than their parents would have if they had not been stressed.
Stress is not passed on in the dna.

I have offered multiple links from reputable scientific journals with quotes from said journals to back up what I have said and you still haven't offered anything to back up your claim except conjecture. I showed you my proof now show me yours.