Fentanyl

[canndo]

Ok, so many of you folks know that I have advised others not to screw with fentanyl patches because this stuff is potent enough to kill you from breathing a tiny speck.


Fine, I don't always take my own advice - I am a cautious person and am capable of a degree of meticulousness.


I have 3 50 mcg/hr patches.

each has a total content of 5.10 mg fentanyl in a dimethicone carrier. My opiate tolerance is low but not none existant, I recently used about 20 mg morphine (anal) to great effect as the records show.


Finally, I was given an unknown dose of fentanyl for my colonoscopy - they were surprised at my not being placed in the state they intended and gave me more. when I returned to something other than a very heavy opiate stupor I was delighted and I wound up hugging the nurses and doctors and telling my wife how much I loved her - ad nauseum (I do actually - she is by far the best wife anyone could have).

so. Can I soak one of these things in water?


The math is escaping me here - Each patch contains 5010 mcg, if I put it in a liter and it completely dissolved I would have 5 mcg per milliliter.


This stuff has an oral availability of about 33 percent but can be absorbed transmucosaly and I don't know what the availability of that is. The lollypops are between 200 and 1600 mcg each and are to be consumed in 15 minutes. It seems like a wholely irresponsible thing - to put a chemical that tends to cause people to forget to breath in a candy but who am I to judge.


Anyway, how much should I try - or, should I just forgo this as being too dangerous even for me and put the patches in my collection of empty hydromorphone bottles and bare 500 count hydrocodone containers. I like the folks on this site and I would miss them very much if I were to quit breathing

 

[polyarcturus]

im gonna be honest with you canndo. in the past ive sucked a fentanyl patch dry, and i would not recommend it(talk about a dizzy day!) i would slap the patch on and enjoy a good day of buzzing over some hours comfortably.

that shit is strong. and ive never seen fentanyl suckers only morphine that is surprising i wonder who that is marketed at?

 

[canndo]

I had considered that but there are some problems - it is not dose friendly, it will take hours to begin to take effect - and worse, it will take hours for it to quit after taking the patch off. I am not certain I can arrange to be that nodded out for three days. And frankly, I don't know if 50 mcg isn't too much to begin with.

 

[polyarcturus]

i would say day #2 will be the sleepyest, but like you said its not dose friendly and it realy isnt.

your plan with the tea is better than sucking fluid if you dont have the time to be buzzed like that plus you can dose a half dose or something that should only last like 8 hours to a day.

 

[polyarcturus]

http://www.drugs.com/dosage/fentanyl.html#Usual_Pediatric_Dose_for_Pain

 

[polyarcturus]

roughly a dosage orally is the whole patch

 

[MrEDuck]

Are they gel patches or the solid matrix ones?
If they're the solid ones you can dose by cutting the patch into pieces and putting them between your teeth and gums. Be very careful with fentanyl.

 

[Indagrow]

My buddy used to shoot them. Have not seen or herd from him in years be careful but try half orally? Or make your tea you seem to be concerned enough yo not overdose yourself

 

[canndo]

Are they gel patches or the solid matrix ones?
If they're the solid ones you can dose by cutting the patch into pieces and putting them between your teeth and gums. Be very careful with fentanyl.

It's mylan doc, and I think Mylan makes the plastic matrix. I really don't know what a safe dose is though? 100mcg too much? and can one be sure that the square is equaly saturated? I'd hate to get a light piece one time, and compensate for it with a strong one. And I don't know what that wnidow is between lethality and effectiveness.


Your advice is greatly respected on this side of the screen - that anal thing worked great, that is until I did the last one and it leaked out my ass - I was almost tempted to mop it up with a tissue and eat that but..... fiend as I am I am not willing to go that far.

What would you do with this stuff - or is the non IV buzz not worth the danger?

 

[canndo]

My buddy used to shoot them. Have not seen or herd from him in years be careful but try half orally? Or make your tea you seem to be concerned enough yo not overdose yourself

Half of one is .... um.... 2.55 milligrams - I don't know, that seems like a lot. I can't figure out what a buccal dose is for a moderate tolerance and how buccal or transmucal response will I get and how much simply gastric?

Oh, and any of you folks know what onset times are and serum half life is?

 

[Golden Buddha]

if I put it in a liter and it completely dissolved

Fentanyl is only sparingly soluble in water and you really don't want to be drinking organic solvents. The effects can also be unpredictable, varying with individual physiology, and as you pointed out, with a high potential for lethality. Especially if you're not extremely precise with the dosage. Smoke a joint instead. I used to be on those patches, after the 90mg morphine pills weren't working anymore. It's one of the main reasons I became an ardent and active supporter of MMJ.

Golden Buddha

 

[MrEDuck]

It's somewhere between 80-100x the potency of morphine. 200ug is a decent starting dose. Put the piece between the gum and cheek, apparently chewing it a few times every few minutes helps it release better.

 

[cannabineer]

It's mylan doc, and I think Mylan makes the plastic matrix. I really don't know what a safe dose is though? 100mcg too much? and can one be sure that the square is equaly saturated? I'd hate to get a light piece one time, and compensate for it with a strong one. And I don't know what that wnidow is between lethality and effectiveness.


Your advice is greatly respected on this side of the screen - that anal thing worked great, that is until I did the last one and it leaked out my ass - I was almost tempted to mop it up with a tissue and eat that but..... fiend as I am I am not willing to go that far.

What would you do with this stuff - or is the non IV buzz not worth the danger?

Fifty mikes oral were a light but tangible dose for me. This is back when i was still an essentially naïve sporadic user. cn

 

[cannabineer]

Fentanyl is only sparingly soluble in water and you really don't want to be drinking organic solvents. The effects can also be unpredictable, varying with individual physiology, and as you pointed out, with a high potential for lethality. Especially if you're not extremely precise with the dosage. Smoke a joint instead. I used to be on those patches, after the 90mg morphine pills weren't working anymore. It's one of the main reasons I became an ardent and active supporter of MMJ.

Golden Buddha

Fentanyl HCl is highly soluble however. cn

 

[racerboy71]

i just saw on the tv that the chic from teen mom, amber, the one who is now in prison, was using fentanyl.. i saw the same numbers mre is using, 100x's stronger then morphine when i went looking for more info after the show..

 

[MrEDuck]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]

im gonna be honest with you canndo. in the past ive sucked a fentanyl patch dry, and i would not recommend it(talk about a dizzy day!) i would slap the patch on and enjoy a good day of buzzing over some hours comfortably.

that shit is strong. and ive never seen fentanyl suckers only morphine that is surprising i wonder who that is marketed at?

lim pretty sure the "morphine" pops are actually fentanyl, to the best of my knowledge there has never been a morphine lollipop. One of the reasons they can do fent pops is it absorbs through the mouth very well and is potent enough that it is easier to hide the flavor of. The brand name is Actiq. They're designed to work faster than oral painkillers, and are great for patients who have trouble swallowing pills. They're also the standard battlefield painkiller for the US Military. [/FONT]

Fentanyl is only sparingly soluble in water and you really don't want to be drinking organic solvents. The effects can also be unpredictable, varying with individual physiology, and as you pointed out, with a high potential for lethality. Especially if you're not extremely precise with the dosage. Smoke a joint instead. I used to be on those patches, after the 90mg morphine pills weren't working anymore. It's one of the main reasons I became an ardent and active supporter of MMJ.

Golden Buddha

Freebase fent isn't particularly soluble in water, but the salts are so an acidic solution will dissolve it just fine. Also it's no more unpredictable than other opioids, and actually has a higher therapeutic index. It's when people start smoking or shooting it or warming the patches that it gets crazy. A 5ug/mL solution is quite safe.

 

[canndo]

This is getting to be an interesting thought experiment.


Seems like the mylan patches are a matrix. One could theoreticaly soak the patch in methanol or ethanol at a predetermined rate - right? then we lay down, say 200 mcg or so on cups of foil and evaporate, now we have little single hit doses of smoke?

 

[Golden Buddha]

Fentanyl HCl is highly soluble however. cn

Freebase fent isn't particularly soluble in water, but the salts are so an acidic solution will dissolve it just fine. Also it's no more unpredictable than other opioids, and actually has a higher therapeutic index. It's when people start smoking or shooting it or warming the patches that it gets crazy. A 5ug/mL solution is quite safe.

Thanks guys, ya learn something new every day. I've sucked the gel out of a couple of patches and it didn't do jack, but then I also used to wash down a dozen percs with a dozen beers and didn't care if it killed me. I suppose you can mitigate the risk if you're familiar with your tolerance and can prepare a reliably accurate solution, I just think it's a pretty dangerous game to play if you're fond of breathing. Just my opinion. I'm happy to have that stuff out of my life. I'll leave it to the chemists to suggest the safest methods of preparation for those determined to indulge. Stay safe!

Golden Buddha

 

[canndo]

It's somewhere between 80-100x the potency of morphine. 200ug is a decent starting dose.

Put the piece between the gum and cheek, apparently chewing it a few times every few minutes helps it release better.

Ok guys, as you can tell I am still worrying this patch to death.


5.01 mg = 5010 mug's right? fine

ten to one, morphine to fentanyl so that means I want maybe 30 mg morphine which is 300 mcg fent. So I gotta cut that patch into 16 pieces? really? All the reading I've done has people cutting bigger ones in half or quarters, many of them putting half in each side of their mouth. It has a 30 percent bio availability oraly (gastricly) so I could simply eat 3 times as much? that's about one 5th of a patch?

I am presuming that I will get all of the active ingredient out of the matrix and get it all out in a relatively short period of time. I don't think I'll do anything but go into a deep nod at 60 mg morphine so that is 600 mcg or one eighth of the thing?

I know I won't have a fent problem, I have a limited supply - intentionaly, and I don't mind wasting some of it on short side trials. I can be precise by simply weighting the entire patch and weighing out one 16th of it.

The thing is that I know it will release slowly so I will have to take enough to feel it ongoingly. If it released over say two hours, I would need to take what? double that?

I think I am over thinking this - or, not.

 

[canndo]

Fifty mikes oral were a light but tangible dose for me. This is back when i was still an essentially naïve sporadic user. cn

50 mics eh? but you had something that was instantly available? oral? IV?