TGA Subcool Vortex Questions!!!

[colocowboy]

In regards to taking strains out past the F1 generation, subby stated in one of his nerd videos that one can take out a cross to the F4 generation and beyond but after all that time and work that's been invested, what you're left with is something not as 'good' as the F1 generation (that's his opinion). You and I don't need to ask sub anything, the info is on his site. He offers a collection of hybrids and poly hybrids crossed to one another. Is that good or bad? Depends what your goals are.

In regards to 'working with landrace', again he states he doesn't want to put the work in.

Actually his justifications come from the basic precepts put forth from the "Vic High essay" and "Marijuana Botany" by Robert Clark.
Yes the info is all there and the reason I suggest asking him is that I have seen many people misinterpret him cherry picking what he says but he doesn't care to engage this stuff. It doesn't really matter, like you said it really depends on ones priorities. That particular quote you site is where I disagree with him but it is because it's not really accurate. By running the punnet squares it takes to the 4th generation to have reachieved a roughly 75% uniformity. Assuming that the breeder was consistent with selective pressure. **Alot of work he doesn't feel like putting in... agreed

 

[T Ray]

well the part about being the worst company in the US was kinda a joke as you can see the smiley face dumb dumb and did you read that thread I was refering to when subcool said dj shorts seeds are crap and then says his are better after he grows 3 females and makes them all herm and says that strain is junk. I've smoked blueberry grown locally it was not junk and the grower had no herms so either subcool sucks at growing or he porpously hermed those plants just to sell more seeds.

so ya it is fucked up when a closet breeder runs his mouth about a real breeder makes his seeds herm just to sell more of his own seeds. so ya subs a punk bitch he reads off his breeding notes on youtube he got from dj shorts book and then bashes a top breeder who gave him all the tips he knows. but you just keep paying that closet breeder t-ray we don't wanna see subcool on welfare.

That's where your assumptions are wrong once again. I have only bought/paid for 5 Qrazy Train beans (About $60). The rest were all gifted. Subcool does so much for the mmj community that you have no idea about.

I usually get gifted clone-only's and run them, but I like to run new things to find something special myself. TGA's got frosty sat leans with unbelieveable smells and that's what I am looking for. In the end were all in it for a quest to find dank.

If you don't like TGA or Subcool that is fine, but it's kinda unreal at the relentlessness/hate you show and have zero experience with.I have seen so many times where you dig at TGA/Subcool. It gets old fast with someone that has zero to go on.It almost seems as it's personal hate towards Subcool. What's the real reason that you can not have the restraint to stay out of a thread asking about a TGA strain and talk down abut TGA and Subcool? It doesn't add up.

We get it,you don't like TGA, and you base it off the zero experience you have with them. Stay out of the TGA strain discussions as you don't have anything to gather your opinion from other than your ass.

T-Ray

 

[Omgwtfbbq Indicaman]

You are too hilarious.I am saying that you are a tried and true TGA hater and your opinion is nothing, but negative about TGA. The funniest part of all is you have no experience with tons of assumptions about a company you have started zero seeds from. You want to know where's the TGA hate huh? You do know that you can look at your post history right?

Here's a prime example bro.

This was just 8 days ago.

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/538462-tga-plushberry-vs-dj-short-6.html#post8127757

^^^^^
Bluntmassa in this thread....



You tell me that's not hating and next thing you know you'll be on Fox news working in the "No Spin" zone.

T-Ray

Fuck it! we'll do it live![video=youtube;HGZtaoWT96E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGZtaoWT96E[/video]

 

[bluntmassa1]

Your about a goofy dude, Shanti has been breeding for a lot more than 20 years! Subcool has been breeding probably that long though. Hell I have been breeding that long, but of course you knew that too right. Of course you know enough about botany that you talk back and forth about what you "heard", your full of shit that's about all. You got nothing boyo! You talk like you are some big shit, I have seen nothing that would even give the impression you know half of what you comment on. Just like your above comment about "they don't put out new strains because they are breeding", that is absurd. If the strains are locked down what is to breed? What book did you read that said that Swerve isn't doing what he said he is which is cubing elite cuts to seed. Again, where did I hear that? Right from swerve, he is right here in the forum go ask him.

You won't because your a fool on a fools quest to prove his self a fool!

why don't you read marijuana botany from robert connel clarke its about breeding for specific traits and a whole shit ton of info on breeding. even read jorge cervantes book the breeding section is from chimera he also recomends the marijuana botany book. read either one and you will know these guys aint breeding. a good pheno selection is 50-100+ plants these guys aint doing that in the states. I have confronted swerve and he don't claim to be better then shantibaba, neville, simon, dj short, etc he even admitted to me he don't make selections of 50-100 plants he does not breed ibl's I don't really know if he's got any f2's or f3's but I don't think he does. but of course hes gonna talk like his shits great which I don't doubt you'll find some nice plants in his shit but their not worked on much at all atleast most are just crosses.

 

[colocowboy]

why don't you read marijuana botany from robert connel clarke its about breeding for specific traits and a whole shit ton of info on breeding. even read jorge cervantes book the breeding section is from chimera he also recomends the marijuana botany book. read either one and you will know these guys aint breeding. a good pheno selection is 50-100+ plants these guys aint doing that in the states. I have confronted swerve and he don't claim to be better then shantibaba, neville, simon, dj short, etc he even admitted to me he don't make selections of 50-100 plants he does not breed ibl's I don't really know if he's got any f2's or f3's but I don't think he does. but of course hes gonna talk like his shits great which I don't doubt you'll find some nice plants in his shit but their not worked on much at all atleast most are just crosses.

See your making shit up again, I never said that swerve was better than shantibaba or any of that. You confront everyone so whats new, I'll tell you whats new my foot in your dumb ass. You don't think at all, thats your pinche problem. I have read those books and they use the fucking same fucking term that's in the dictionary and encyclopedia that your still arguing about despite having been served the black and fucking white on the topic. At this point calling you a fucking retard would be a compliment!

 

[Omgwtfbbq Indicaman]

its sad that so many breeders have better toolset than shantibaba, but that goes to show, a master who knows his tools can still make great gear.

 

[colocowboy]

its sad that so many breeders have better toolset than shantibaba, but that goes to show, a master who knows his tools can still make great gear.

How very zen lol
puff, puff, pass my friend!

 

[Omgwtfbbq Indicaman]

That's where your assumptions are wrong once again. I have only bought/paid for 5 Qrazy Train beans (About $60). The rest were all gifted. Subcool does so much for the mmj community that you have no idea about.

I usually get gifted clone-only's and run them, but I like to run new things to find something special myself. TGA's got frosty sat leans with unbelieveable smells and that's what I am looking for. In the end were all in it for a quest to find dank.

If you don't like TGA or Subcool that is fine, but it's kinda unreal at the relentlessness/hate you show and have zero experience with.I have seen so many times where you dig at TGA/Subcool. It gets old fast with someone that has zero to go on.It almost seems as it's personal hate towards Subcool. What's the real reason that you can not have the restraint to stay out of a thread asking about a TGA strain and talk down abut TGA and Subcool? It doesn't add up.

We get it,you don't like TGA, and you base it off the zero experience you have with them. Stay out of the TGA strain discussions as you don't have anything to gather your opinion from other than your ass.

T-Ray

Yea, i might be an indica man but i haven't found a breeder who's consistently have fast flowering fruity sweet smelling sativa flowers, my gf loves tga gear fpr that reason as do i. disagreements with subcool's method and lack of true stabilization aside, i feel like donating a pack to this guy just so he can see.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

its sad that so many breeders have better toolset than shantibaba, but that goes to show, a master who knows his tools can still make great gear.

My impressions are a bit different. As far as I can tell Shanti has some of the best base stock around. He has old school Haze mom/pops that really aren't easy to find anymore. He has old school NL. Old school skunk etc. He has elite landrace genetics. He has the mom/pop for the real Widow... I doubt there are many outside of Robert C Clark and the Skunkman who have a better library of genetics than he does.

These are the basis of most varieties today.

Not all, but a hell of a lot.

 

[bluntmassa1]

its sad that so many breeders have better toolset than shantibaba, but that goes to show, a master who knows his tools can still make great gear.

lmao are you really calling subcool a master? and saying some how shantibaba has subpar parent stock to tga? you show me a frostier bud than black widow and I might believe you. the shit shantibaba breeds with have been used in damn near every strain we have today and guess who soma got his afghan x hawian father from which hes used for even nyc diesel it was shantibaba.

i haven't found a breeder who's consistently have fast flowering fruity sweet smelling sativa flowers

have you tried cinderella 99 ? subcool uses this strain in most all his crosses and its actually been worked on its basically got the same description you wrote about tga. I also don't see how tga made it any better by crossing it to romulan and using that male for most of his strains. c99 has been a good strain all along and I doubt subcool actually made it better or more stable in any way. but I know you can get good bud from closet breeding just check out homebrewers AK-47 cross he did it looked pretty damn good to me.

 

[colocowboy]

lmao are you really calling subcool a master? and saying some how shantibaba has subpar parent stock to tga? you show me a frostier bud than black widow and I might believe you. the shit shantibaba breeds with have been used in damn near every strain we have today and guess who soma got his afghan x hawian father from which hes used for even nyc diesel it was shantibaba.

have you tried cinderella 99 ? subcool uses this strain in most all his crosses and its actually been worked on its basically got the same description you wrote about tga. I also don't see how tga made it any better by crossing it to romulan and using that male for most of his strains. c99 has been a good strain all along and I doubt subcool actually made it better or more stable in any way. but I know you can get good bud from closet breeding just check out homebrewers AK-47 cross he did it looked pretty damn good to me.

Yap, yap, yap!
Cindy 99 x romulan is spacequeen. Sub says that his reproducing his representation of bcga's. Sorry that's not good enough for you...
The question here is have you tried c99? You always site everyone else experience, what is yours? Other than talking loads of shit from that anus you call a mouth!
I agree with Home Brewer on a lot of these these issues but he comes from a position of experience and a his own personal goals. Your just trying to tell every one else how they should interpret the variables around them. Step back bro, who do you think you are?!

 

[bluntmassa1]

I agree with Home Brewer on a lot of these these issues but he comes from a position of experience and a his own personal goals. Your just trying to tell every one else how they should interpret the variables around them. Step back bro, who do you think you are?!

ok you agree with homebrewer but I'm basically saying the same thing about tga as he has but I'm wrong and homebrewer is right that makes a whole lot of sense.
have fun I'm done arguing with you tga fanboys.

 

[T Ray]

Though I don't always agree with homebrewer I have seen his work here and also have read many of his posts. He is a very knowledgeable guy who I have seen grow dank with my own eyes. It's a respect thing. I respect homebrewer and his opinions are valued, even when I don't agree with them. He even said he has worked with some TGA. You on the other hand I have seen zero from. Infact I just told homebrewer this exact thing yesterday. People can disagree and still respect one another. Thing is I don't respect you b/c one you haven't backed up what you say with some of your work. And your knowledge isn't any where near the level of homebrewer. He has paid his dues.

Tell me one time what goes on in your mind when you go into tons of TGA labled threads and bash Subcool/TGA with no experience on the matters that are being asked? What is your motive? Is it something personal you have against the man? There's definitely more to it than you lead on. Otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to bash in a thread/s that clearly you have zero to say based on your experience with it.

T-Ray

 

[chadster152]

Chadster152, with all due respect, look at what I underlined and tell me how bluntmassa could have a opinion on these matters if he has never grown out one TGA strain? My point was not to bash bluntmassa, it was to let you know that his opinion is based off absolutely zero results of his own. He is going off of what he has heard/read somebody else tell him. Go look at his previous post/s history and a good majority of them are giving bad opinions on TGA.

He does hate on TGA and I thought it would be relevant to let the person asking know that he doesn't have personal experience growing TGA and doesn't truly have a opinion b/c what good's a opinion if it's based on zero experience. It's like me trying to tell you about how shitty a product is without ever even seeing/trying it myself. I personally would only want to hear/value opinions from people that have actually used/experienced the said product.

If you notice there have been plenty of people who have experience with TGA that claim hermie's and such (for example the guy's response directly under my first statement). You will/do not hear me say that they are wrong or that they are just bashing TGA and all that. I respect and value the people's opinion who have taken the time to grow TGA.

I am not sitting here trying to claim that with TGA you won't get a herm/mutant, b/c yes it is possible that you could (as it is with any genetics).

What am I saying? I am saying if your running new gear(popping seeds) from anybody you should be looking for herms/nanners IMO b/c only a rookie would take a chance at letting something never before in seen in their garden seed their grow. I am saying that if you get a 10 pack of TGA and get some ladies in the mix that you will more than likely find something that is dank/frosty. It's just like popping any seeds....selection is the key.

If it was as easy as just popping 10 seeds (even from Mr Nice, Sensi, Serious...ect) and getting elites then wouldn't everyone just have the super dank and not want to buy more?

TGA is not for everyone and I understand that, but I would never ever go into a thread about any breeders seeds that I haven't grown and give a opinion on their company/seeds without ever even growing a single bean. That's asinine to say the least. Bluntmassa is constantly in TGA threads throwing out his 2 cents when he doesn't have a fucking clue and after a while it starts to become annoying.


Now here's some of MY frost Chernobyl from TGA grown from seed (plus plenty more in my albums/profile/threads). She was a freebie from the tude'.

And here's a explanation of what started me on using TGA.

https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/454086-t-ray-using-supersoil.html



T-Ray

I see where you are coming from. I was previously unaware that bluntmassa1 has never grown out a TGA strain and i agree that the value of first hand experience is is higher than second or third hand experience.

That Chernobyl is FROSTY! Very tasty looking, my compliments.

As to the reason you started TGA gear, i agree that spectacular results are a good motivator in what people choose to do, in fact homebrewer's threads about Dyna-Gro vs Advanced Nutes (and General Hydroponics) is what made me decide to run Dyna-Gro in my upcoming grow.

Sub deals exclusively in soil correct? Perhaps, since sub doesn't work to stabilize and breeds poly-hybrids, due to the buffers and "safeguards" that are in soil as compared to hydro, people who follow subs recommendations and use soil get better results as compared to the majority of people using hydro are the ones who experience herms and other problems due to the relative ease of stressing the plant in a hydro setup. I have no evidence of this what so ever, i am just guessing as to why some people experience herms and bad results with TGA, while others are pumping out frosty dankness. That isn't to say that people haven't had good results with TGA in hydro, just that its more sensitive and more difficult to do. Just a thought.

 

[colocowboy]

It really is more a matter of respect, bluntmassa is being disrespectful and chasing his tail. I might go as far as arguing that he is suffering a psychosis since he is having trouble confronting reality that doesn't support his delusion. Homebrewer and I weren't even necessarily discussing the issue you are choking on. Your perspective on this is ridiculous, please by all means quit your crazy onslaught.

 

[Medshed]

I think your hydro vs. soil theory has some validity chadster. I was just chatting with someone on another forum and he said he'd never grow TGA because of hermie issues he's heard of from a respected grower that used his same method (hydro). I believe both these growers know what they are doing. One of them used to run a warehouse dispensary grow so he definitely has experience.

I found it odd that this experienced hydro grower had pervasive hermie issues with the same strains that I and other soil growers I know have had great success with on multiple grows. It could be that TGA gear is bred in and for organic/Supersoil environments.

 

[colocowboy]

I think your hydro vs. soil theory has some validity chadster. I was just chatting with someone on another forum and he said he'd never grow TGA because of hermie issues he's heard of from a respected grower that used his same method (hydro). I believe both these growers know what they are doing. One of them used to run a warehouse dispensary grow so he definitely has experience.

I found it odd that this experienced hydro grower had pervasive hermie issues with the same strains that I and other soil growers I know have had great success with on multiple grows. It could be that TGA gear is bred in and for organic/Supersoil environments.

Hydro is definitely more prone to stress, I think you both have made a stout observation with respect to that issue.

 

[sine143]

I think your hydro vs. soil theory has some validity chadster. I was just chatting with someone on another forum and he said he'd never grow TGA because of hermie issues he's heard of from a respected grower that used his same method (hydro). I believe both these growers know what they are doing. One of them used to run a warehouse dispensary grow so he definitely has experience.

I found it odd that this experienced hydro grower had pervasive hermie issues with the same strains that I and other soil growers I know have had great success with on multiple grows. It could be that TGA gear is bred in and for organic/Supersoil environments.

Sub also deals pretty much exclusivly with 7 gallon pots or higher. In one of Hovering's test threads (Green Queen x JTR i believe) he experienced hermie traits in one of the 3 females in his 1 gallon test pots. However, many of subs test growers follow the big pot, super soil school, and the strains that make it through them had no problems with herms to my knowledge. I suspect most TGA hermie experiences are either in hydro or in far to small of containers.

 

[chadster152]

I think your hydro vs. soil theory has some validity chadster. I was just chatting with someone on another forum and he said he'd never grow TGA because of hermie issues he's heard of from a respected grower that used his same method (hydro). I believe both these growers know what they are doing. One of them used to run a warehouse dispensary grow so he definitely has experience.

I found it odd that this experienced hydro grower had pervasive hermie issues with the same strains that I and other soil growers I know have had great success with on multiple grows. It could be that TGA gear is bred in and for organic/Supersoil environments.

Sub also deals pretty much exclusivly with 7 gallon pots or higher. In one of Hovering's test threads (Green Queen x JTR i believe) he experienced hermie traits in one of the 3 females in his 1 gallon test pots. However, many of subs test growers follow the big pot, super soil school, and the strains that make it through them had no problems with herms to my knowledge. I suspect most TGA hermie experiences are either in hydro or in far to small of containers.

I would love to see an experimental test grow done by someone with enough experience to minimize mistakes and a tried and true hydro system, perhaps Homebrewer? Get a TGA bean, make a bunch of clones, do a hydro grow, a SuperSoil grow in 5 gallon pots (or smaller), and then a SuperSoil grow in 7 gallon pots as the control. Would be nice to see how the same plant reacts to the three different grow styles...perhaps proving my theory would end everyone (the people who got nanners who were probably using hydro) hating on TGA. Maybe Sub himself would be interested, who knows?

 

[OGEvilgenius]

I can see a hydro setup going south causing problems, but just saying they're more stress prone isn't true. If the guy doing hydro is paying attention his plants are going to suffer minimal stresses, less than dirt growers in fact as transplanting without stress is a lot easier in most hydro setups.

I also fail to see the mechanism where a plant in a pot too small would herm but a plant in a larger pot would not.

I can see things going south in Hydro, but I think you gotta give those hydro guys the benefit of the doubt as far as their skills go until proven otherwise.

I ain't hating on TGA. I have some Vortex that are going in the dirt in the not too distant future. But I expect to have to hunt a bit for 'the one'.