"No man left behind"

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the thing about that. I was banned from the military. Once again, apparently you lose your sense of humor when you enlist.
I didn't lose it but it changed. My ex asked me one time if Marine life was like Full Metal jacket. I told her I had never seen it (not much of a movie guy). This was like 1996 or 97. She went and rented it right then. Except for the guy having a live round he somehow swiped it was pretty much spot on. They gave us X number of rounds in training - basically a clip at a time - and you returned that many empty rounds. Or fucking else. No way to sneak a live round from the range.

Back to humor - be 18 barely and have some guy that looks like he could eat nails squeezing your windpipe so hard you literally cannot breathe, much less speak, while he says "I can't hear you!!!!!!!" This is 2 minutes in the yellow foot prints after getting off the damned bus at the Marine Recruit Depots. It gets worse from there - way worse. Your girlfriends and wives are whores and cheating on you according to the sergeants. They assure us they will all have the rotten crotch by the time we go home on leave so to forget the bitches (turns out good advice). Then they shave your head, make you strip, shower and delouse everybody (lice or not) and a 30second haircut. By then you have been aboard, say, 4 hours. Middle of the night.

Yep it pretty much changes a fellow. And that's just training.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I didn't lose it but it changed. My ex asked me one time if Marine life was like Full Metal jacket. I told her I had never seen it (not much of a movie guy). This was like 1996 or 97. She went and rented it right then. Except for the guy having a live round he somehow swiped it was pretty much spot on. They gave us X number of rounds in training - basically a clip at a time - and you returned that many empty rounds. Or fucking else. No way to sneak a live round from the range.

Back to humor - be 18 barely and have some guy that looks like he could eat nails squeezing your windpipe so hard you literally cannot breathe, much less speak, while he says "I can't hear you!!!!!!!" This is 2 minutes in the yellow foot prints after getting off the damned bus at the Marine Recruit Depots. It gets worse from there - way worse. Your girlfriends and wives are whores and cheating on you according to the sergeants. They assure us they will all have the rotten crotch by the time we go home on leave so to forget the bitches (turns out good advice). Then they shave your head, make you strip, shower and delouse everybody (lice or not) and a 30second haircut. By then you have been aboard, say, 4 hours. Middle of the night.

Yep it pretty much changes a fellow. And that's just training.
If it's expected, why would it change you?

I know exactly what bootcamp will be like, I don't need to go through it to know.
 

Toorop

Well-Known Member
I didn't lose it but it changed. My ex asked me one time if Marine life was like Full Metal jacket. I told her I had never seen it (not much of a movie guy). This was like 1996 or 97. She went and rented it right then. Except for the guy having a live round he somehow swiped it was pretty much spot on. They gave us X number of rounds in training - basically a clip at a time - and you returned that many empty rounds. Or fucking else. No way to sneak a live round from the range.

Back to humor - be 18 barely and have some guy that looks like he could eat nails squeezing your windpipe so hard you literally cannot breathe, much less speak, while he says "I can't hear you!!!!!!!" This is 2 minutes in the yellow foot prints after getting off the damned bus at the Marine Recruit Depots. It gets worse from there - way worse. Your girlfriends and wives are whores and cheating on you according to the sergeants. They assure us they will all have the rotten crotch by the time we go home on leave so to forget the bitches (turns out good advice). Then they shave your head, make you strip, shower and delouse everybody (lice or not) and a 30second haircut. By then you have been aboard, say, 4 hours. Middle of the night.

Yep it pretty much changes a fellow. And that's just training.
They gave you clips? Not magazines?
 

Saltrock

Active Member
Thanks for your guy's service. I can't imagine the generations lost due to war. Especially into wars that are not necessary. When bush waved his "mission accomplished" banner, I thought that was a huge slap in that face to our military and the thousands that died after that celebration. These politicians are so quick to send someone they don't know into harms way. Only to have them come back and have funds cut, not have the resources to deal with ptsd and other post war issues. You guys rock, and deserve the best.

Peace
Salt
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
If it's expected, why would it change you?

I know exactly what bootcamp will be like, I don't need to go through it to know.
Knowing what something is like and experiencing it are not the same thing. There's a deeper element to it beyond what you get from the descriptions. People all go in knowing what to expect, yet I still saw dropouts. I even had one guy in my platoon go into a stress-induced seizure. He was so fucked up that he spent the entire night pissing the bed and repeating the lord's prayer, I don't think he slept at all that night. He then proceeded to put on a flak jacket, his flip flops, and skivvies, and jump from the second story window and take off like a champion sprinter into the wilderness of Camp Pendleton. We finally found him 2 days later while we were on a pack hump. They shipped him off to the mental ward after that. He was halfway through, not like anything had changed for us at that point. I got firsthand accounts from people I personally knew, and boot camp was still a shock.

To tie that in with the OP as well. Through all that shit, you have to rely on your buddies. Unless you pull together and work as a group, life is hell. It builds a strong sense of camaraderie. Even after boot camp, you spend alot of time with the same guys you will most likely ship out with. You see these people at work, you see them after work at the barracks where most of you live, you drink with them, you go on holiday trips to their families houses, and you've most likely banged the same chick at least once (Possibly at the same time.). It's not an ordinary bond of friendship, when we called each other "brother" we mean that they're like family. Honestly, it would be a tough call. I know my brother wouldn't want me getting killed to recover his dead body, but I also know he'd most likely risk getting his ass blown off to drag my corpse back with him. It's really a very situational answer.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Knowing what something is like and experiencing it are not the same thing. There's a deeper element to it beyond what you get from the descriptions. People all go in knowing what to expect, yet I still saw dropouts. I even had one guy in my platoon go into a stress-induced seizure. He was so fucked up that he spent the entire night pissing the bed and repeating the lord's prayer, I don't think he slept at all that night. He then proceeded to put on a flak jacket, his flip flops, and skivvies, and jump from the second story window and take off like a champion sprinter into the wilderness of Camp Pendleton. We finally found him 2 days later while we were on a pack hump. They shipped him off to the mental ward after that. He was halfway through, not like anything had changed for us at that point. I got firsthand accounts from people I personally knew, and boot camp was still a shock.

To tie that in with the OP as well. Through all that shit, you have to rely on your buddies. Unless you pull together and work as a group, life is hell. It builds a strong sense of camaraderie. Even after boot camp, you spend alot of time with the same guys you will most likely ship out with. You see these people at work, you see them after work at the barracks where most of you live, you drink with them, you go on holiday trips to their families houses, and you've most likely banged the same chick at least once (Possibly at the same time.). It's not an ordinary bond of friendship, when we called each other "brother" we mean that they're like family. Honestly, it would be a tough call. I know my brother wouldn't want me getting killed to recover his dead body, but I also know he'd most likely risk getting his ass blown off to drag my corpse back with him. It's really a very situational answer.
We only had to do 10 push ups at a time for punishment.
Of course those push ups had to be in unison. So everytime we got to 8 or 9 we had to start over. and over and over............

Yeah you cannot expect boot camp. I didnt sleep much the first night it was a living nightmare, guys talking in their sleep crying. I just managed to get to sleep and for some Reason I opened my eyes just in time to see the DI's come in silent with trash cans and flash bangs
 

spandy

Well-Known Member
If it's just to retrieve a dead body, then leave them. I don't expect our soldiers to die for our closure, they already risk enough. Ma and Pa back home will just have to get over never seeing their sons/daughters body again, why would we want to line 4 of the neighbors kids bodies up next to it just so everyone can say good bye?
 

Saerimmner

Well-Known Member
If it's just to retrieve a dead body, then leave them. I don't expect our soldiers to die for our closure, they already risk enough. Ma and Pa back home will just have to get over never seeing their sons/daughters body again, why would we want to line 4 of the neighbors kids bodies up next to it just so everyone can say good bye?
And thats the whole point, expected or not thats what they do, and as I said earlier in the thread even when ordered by an officer not to go they still will, court martial or not, something unfortunately most civilians will never even begin to comprehend
 

spandy

Well-Known Member
And thats the whole point, expected or not thats what they do, and as I said earlier in the thread even when ordered by an officer not to go they still will, court martial or not, something unfortunately most civilians will never even begin to comprehend
. They can if they want, I just don't expect them to and no one else should either.

I could go back for someone even if the chance of them being alive was remote, but if I know they are dead that just seems mental to go die just to retrieve a carcass, and I would never want someone coming in for my dead body.

I wonder though, are they always going back for the body, or revenge killings?
 

Saerimmner

Well-Known Member
. They can if they want, I just don't expect them to and no one else should either.

I could go back for someone even if the chance of them being alive was remote, but if I know they are dead that just seems mental to go die just to retrieve a carcass, and I would never want someone coming in for my dead body.

I wonder though, are they always going back for the body, or revenge killings?
Bit of both mate but getting the body back is always the main priority
 

Saerimmner

Well-Known Member
Pictures: Marines strap themselves to chopper for daring rescue

By CHRISTOPHER LEAKE
Last updated at 21:42 20 January 2007



These are the astonishing images of the moment four heroic Royal Marines set off to rescue a fallen comrade - strapped to the wings of two Apache helicopters.
In pictures seen here for the first time, the brave volunteers are shown being briefed on last week's perilous mission before flying deep into enemy territory in Afghanistan's Helmand province.
See more incredible pictures of the raid
Scroll down for the rest of the article

Dubbed 'Flight of the Phoenix', it was the first time such a risky operation had been conducted by British forces in the field of battle.
Despite coming under fire from heavily armed Taliban insurgents, the men were determined to risk their lives to recover their colleague Lance Corporal Mathew Ford, who had been shot as he led his troops in storming a heavily defended fort used as a Taliban headquarters.
Apaches cannot carry passengers, so the Marines strapped themselves to the outsides of the helicopters, buckling themselves to the handgrips the pilots use to climb into the cockpit.
They then flew back into the combat zone to swoop on the compound as two more Apaches hovered above, laying down fire to keep the Taliban at bay.
Tragically, Lance Corporal Ford, 30, of 45 Commando, was found dead - the 46th British serviceman to die in Afghanistan since 2001.
The four Marines jumped off their Apaches and retrieved his body before flying it back to the British military HQ at Camp Bastion.
Last night, the men involved gave their own dramatic accounts of Monday's daring and dangerous mission.
THE MISSING COMRADE

Warrant Officer 1 Colin Hearn, 45, was one of the four men who flew in on the side of an Apache. He is Regimental Sergeant Major of the Royal Marines Landing Force Command Support Group.
He said: "At 8am, a message was posted that one of Z (Zulu) Company was missing.
"There was a lot of concern, but there was no question of not doing anything - it was just how we were going to do it."
Using an Unmanned Airborne Vehicle - a reconnaissance plane that sends video of the battlefield back to the Operations Room - an eagle-eyed RAF man spotted something.
"He was looking at the film footage and saw a lighter colour against the dark," said WO Hearn.
"He saw something lighter on the ground that didn't quite look natural in its surroundings - that was our man."
This was confirmed by an Apache flying overhead, piloted by 'Tom', 39, a member of the Army Air Corps who has asked not to be named.
He was deployed at around 8am when he and another Apache left Camp Bastion and flew to the fort.
"We got a radio message to say there was a possibility someone was missing," said Tom.
Using heat-sensitive equipment, they quickly identified Lance Corporal Ford, but at that stage did not know he was dead.
"We were given the task of protecting the casualty to make sure that he did not fall into enemy hands," said Tom.
"We were then told a ground rescue was going in and we were to set the conditions for that assault."
Both Apaches continued to circle.
"Time was ticking away by this stage and we were getting short on fuel," said Tom.
"I then suggested we could get four soldiers out on Apaches and that we could be in and out in five minutes and get the casualty back to medical treatment."
WO Hearn said: "I had no second thoughts about doing it.
"I thought, 'Not a problem - they are my men, I should be responsible for getting them out'.
"It had never been done before on that particular aircraft. I just wanted to get on.
"We knew what we were going to do. We had a rough plan of how it was going to run."
Brigadier Jerry Thomas, Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan, said: "The Apaches are small and therefore less vulnerable to incoming fire, faster, and carry a formidable array of weapons."
THE VOLUNTEERS

Among the men who put themselves forward for the mission when Commanding Officer Rob Magowan asked for volunteers was young Marine Chris Fraser-Perry.
The 19-year-old, from Southport, Merseyside, passed out as a Marine only 14 months ago. He was a signaller in the headquarters tent.
He said: "The CO asked for volunteers and I volunteered because I'm part of Z Company. I just wanted to help."
Captain Dave Rigg, 30, from Newton Ferrers, Devon, is a Royal Engineer, part of 28 Engineer Regiment, based in Germany.
But he is Commando-trained and has spent long periods serving with the Marines.
On the day of the rescue, he was acting as Battlegroup engineer - advising the CO - but minutes later was being strapped to an Apache.
Why did he volunteer? "It was an instinctive reaction," said Captain Rigg.
"We all felt responsible and we all wanted to help."
THE BRIEFING

Gary Robinson, from Rosyth, Fife, has been a Marine for two years.
He is CO Magowan's signaller and part of the Royal Marines Command Support Group. During the operation he was next to his CO.
He said: "We were given briefs on the layout on the ground and the position of Lance Corporal Ford and told that we were going to be going in on the helicopter and what to do when we got on the ground.
"All that was going through my head was what to do when we got on the ground and just make sure I knew exactly where I was going so I could reach Lance Corporal Ford as soon as possible and get out myself."
INTO ACTION

Flying at low level at 50mph to protect the Marines strapped to the two Apaches, the initial plan was for both aircraft to land by the casualty, who was outside the compound wall.
Gary Robinson said: "As we came in there was a lot of firepower going down with our air assets and artillery.
"There was a wall in front of us which had signs of battle damage."
As they approached, a cloud of thick black smoke obscured their view.
Tom decided there was insufficient ground outside the wall to land both aircraft, so he took the decision to land his inside the wall of the fort, leaving the second aircraft to land next to Lance Corporal Ford.
This change confused the two Marines on the second Apache.
Expecting to land next to the outer wall, when they jumped off they ran towards the wrong wall.
"My two guys jumped off but were disorientated as they expected to be outside the wall," said Tom.
"The pilot, sat behind me, saw they didn't know where they were and said, 'I'm going out'.
"And he got out and ran to assist the other guys."
All three then disappeared through a gap in the outer wall to meet up with the other two troops on foot to recover the casualty.
"I thought 'they'd better be quick,' said Tom.
"It seemed like a lifetime but it was only a couple of minutes. I thought we'd got two to three minutes with the element of surprise before the Taliban realised what was happening.
"After we'd been on the ground for about three minutes we were engaged."
Tom came under fire from a building to his right. He radioed to the Apache above, which fired at the Taliban.
It was as that was going on that his colleagues reached Lance Corporal Ford and carried him to one of the Apaches.
Tom said: "I got a radio call to say they were on their way back and had retrieved the casualty."
His pilot then ran back and got into the aircraft ready to take off.
They had been on the ground for five minutes.
"He was panting, he couldn,t even talk, he was breathing very heavily.
"It had been a close thing."
THE FLIGHT BACK

After dropping off his two Marines, Tom flew for 25 minutes direct to Camp Bastion.
When he landed, he had enough fuel for two more minutes of flight. But his day was not over.
He said: "After landing I gave the thumbs-up, refuelled and re-armed and I was ready to go back out again within 30 minutes."
THE AFTERMATH

Reflecting on their mission, all the men were keen to play down their bravery.
Gary Robinson said: "Any of my colleagues would have done the same thing if the roles were reversed.
"I don't think it was heroic or dangerous. I felt 100 per cent safe at all times, because of the plan and the covering fire. At the end of the day it's our job."
For Tom, it was not until he arrived back at Camp Bastion that he was told Lance Corporal Ford was dead.
Tom said: "I've had two sleepless nights since then.
"The first night I was thinking if we could have done anything quicker.
"I've had a word with the surgeon - Lance Corporal Ford's wounds were fatal. Nothing could have been done."
Chris Fraser-Perry added: "I wanted to get him back. I felt it had to be done. I would expect the same done for me."
Captain Rigg said: "The key message is that there were a lot of very brave guys that day, from the pilots to the young lads who went into the fort initially and were pinned down by the enemy fire, to the Brigade Reconnaissance Force and Light Dragoons who had been out there all night supporting, and all those guys in the HQ that volunteered.
"It wasn't just us guys hanging on the wings, it was those Apache pilots who put the idea together."
WO Hearn said: "There was no way we were going to leave him, or anyone else, on that battlefield."
The day after it happened, Lance Corporal Ford's comrades held a memorial service in the field at 7am.
"Just a ten-minute service with a couple of readings, a two-minute silence and some prayers," said WO Hearn.
"It was a nice touch to put some closure to that certain part of the event.
"The guys can get on with doing the rest of the operation."



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-430251/Pictures-Marines-strap-chopper-daring-rescue.html#ixzz2BHLjzIYC
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Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Is it only expected because that's how it's always been?

If I'm in biology class, I'd expect to learn about evolution because that's what they teach you in biology class.

If I'm in the military and a buddy gets killed, it's expected his body will be brought home because that's what they do in the military.
 

nick88

Well-Known Member
So the people that say to leave the bodies are saying that, they would leave the body of their friend, who fought along side them and would most likely die for them covering their back out in the field to rot and animals to eat..
I guess thats why there slogan " A FEW GOOD MEN" doesn't apply to everyone.. Jmo
 

Saerimmner

Well-Known Member
So the people that say to leave the bodies are saying that, they would leave the body of their friend, who fought along side them and would most likely die for them covering their back out in the field to rot and animals to eat..
I guess thats why there slogan " A FEW GOOD MEN" doesn't apply to everyone.. Jmo
Exactly!! IWould be ashamed to have people like that as friends
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Collecting my dead corpse isn't worth risking your life over. I'd rather I be left than be the reason you were killed.
 
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