Is this a phosphorous/calcium deficiency?

SwagstaffBud

Active Member
http://imgur.com/a/6Upbd I'm pretty sure I have a problem with both, the curling leaves look like phosphorus to me. And I haven't been able to figure out what the brown spots are but now I'm pretty confident they might be from calcium deficiency. I fed the plant at half strength on Tuesday though so could itt have become phosphorus deficient that quick? The plant is bagseed, in an 8 inch pot. Potting soil + perlite, has been in flowering just over 3 weeks and I have been feeding it once weekly at half strength. Under a 400w HPS, temps between 75-79. The curling of the leaves started yesterday and the temps had creeped up to 90 because one of the fans in my room turned off.
 

Ringsixty

Well-Known Member
Check your soil PH.
If you have been giving nutes and no response. Check the PH...maybe in nute lockout.
Seen it before.

Warning, just adjust your PH slowly or your going to make things worst.
 

SwagstaffBud

Active Member
I've been feeding them AN Jungle Juice, micro bloom and grow once a week with a tsp of molasses.

Check your soil PH.
If you have been giving nutes and no response. Check the PH...maybe in nute lockout.
Seen it before.

Warning, just adjust your PH slowly or your going to make things worst.
My ph was a little over 7 about a week ago but it has been just around 7 pretty consistently since then.

Edit: Just fed it 5ml of micro and bloom and a tbsp of molasses so hopefully things improve in the next few days. pH was a little high, like 7.5 so I'll be trying to get that down over the next few days
 

doniawon

Well-Known Member
I've been feeding them AN Jungle Juice, micro bloom and grow once a week with a tsp of molasses.



My ph was a little over 7 about a week ago but it has been just around 7 pretty consistently since then.

Edit: Just fed it 5ml of micro and bloom and a tbsp of molasses so hopefully things improve in the next few days. pH was a little high, like 7.5 so I'll be trying to get that down over the next few days
since your using synthetic nutrients maybe cut back on the molasses a?. could also need more pk. maybe try lucas formula as suggested on the side of the jungle juice? .. 5ml micro, 10ml bloom. maybe foliar spray some micro and cal mag ?
 

SwagstaffBud

Active Member
since your using synthetic nutrients maybe cut back on the molasses a?. could also need more pk. maybe try lucas formula as suggested on the side of the jungle juice? .. 5ml micro, 10ml bloom. maybe foliar spray some micro and cal mag ?
Ok, I'll cut the molasses back to 1ml/gallon? I believe a tbsp. is 5ml so that should be good? I don't have any calmag and I'm broke as fuck so I'll probably have to find a cheaper alternative to that unfortunately.

What's the advantage of using Lucas formula over the normal feeding regiment? I haven't really read much on it.
 

doniawon

Well-Known Member
tbs is 15 mls? epsom salts are like a buck or two at walmart. is great for a cal mag supplement. molasses is a sugar meant to feed bacteria, the good bacterial that eat organic additives that shit out wonderfully natural nutrients. your nutrients however are synthetically made available to your plants straight out of the bottle. in other words you dont need to feed your bacterias to break down your nutrients, so hold back on the sugars in the soil. itll just cause rot and bring unwanted bugs, molds and pathogens. all i got. and i dont grown in soil so i may be talking outta my ass?
 

SwagstaffBud

Active Member
tbs is 15 mls? epsom salts are like a buck or two at walmart. is great for a cal mag supplement. molasses is a sugar meant to feed bacteria, the good bacterial that eat organic additives that shit out wonderfully natural nutrients. your nutrients however are synthetically made available to your plants straight out of the bottle. in other words you dont need to feed your bacterias to break down your nutrients, so hold back on the sugars in the soil. itll just cause rot and bring unwanted bugs, molds and pathogens. all i got. and i dont grown in soil so i may be talking outta my ass?
Oh, well the little measuring thing I have lists it as 5ml...it definitely isn't a full sized tbsp though. I'll still cut it back though. Anyways, I'll get some epsom salts. Thanks for the help man.
 

209 Cali closet grower

Well-Known Member
I've been feeding them AN Jungle Juice, micro bloom and grow once a week with a tsp of molasses.



My ph was a little over 7 about a week ago but it has been just around 7 pretty consistently since then.

Edit: Just fed it 5ml of micro and bloom and a tbsp of molasses so hopefully things improve in the next few days. pH was a little high, like 7.5 so I'll be trying to get that down over the next few days
I would not use the molasses because the nutes you have got what the plant needs.
 

209 Cali closet grower

Well-Known Member
last round I was using molasses in my nutes, thinking it would make my buds sweeter-I had to do it! lol, I learned the hard way.That molasses can be great for seconder nutes and k, and help the soil, but won't make them super sweet.

Well I got lockout on most plants, and was upping the dose!because my plants where yellowing???

Well this round I'm using 1/2 nutes and no molasses and plants are healthy!!!
 

Shredder420

Member
I am having close to the same issue, read my soil pH runoff at 7.5 today - definitely a lockout. I run mine in organic potting soil, water with spring water using GO calmag+ to lower my pH before watering. I added a little more than usual today, watered with 6.0 and got runoff at 7.0 - still a tad too high, but plant did noticeably like the lower pH.

Depending on the brand and type of molasses, some supplement calcium and magnesium in the formula, for example I have brer rabbit unsulphured molasses and I found a site online comparing different molasseses (plural?) and it claimed 8% of calcium and 8% magnesium... but I have yet to try it.

Also, epsom salts are not a source of cal/mag. The name epsom salts means literally nothing in terms of what it is comprised of. It is pure magnesium sulfate and will only supplement magnesium and sulfur, obviously.

I would say fix your pH before adding anything to the mixture, as your soil could possibly have the nutrients already.. and the micro nutrients that exhibit these types of deficiencies that your plant is showing lockout very easily above 7.0 as I am finding out the hard way.
Correcting the pH in soil will take some time, but be patient and don't do anything too drastic. good luck!
 

SwagstaffBud

Active Member
I am having close to the same issue, read my soil pH runoff at 7.5 today - definitely a lockout. I run mine in organic potting soil, water with spring water using GO calmag+ to lower my pH before watering. I added a little more than usual today, watered with 6.0 and got runoff at 7.0 - still a tad too high, but plant did noticeably like the lower pH.

Depending on the brand and type of molasses, some supplement calcium and magnesium in the formula, for example I have brer rabbit unsulphured molasses and I found a site online comparing different molasseses (plural?) and it claimed 8% of calcium and 8% magnesium... but I have yet to try it.

Also, epsom salts are not a source of cal/mag. The name epsom salts means literally nothing in terms of what it is comprised of. It is pure magnesium sulfate and will only supplement magnesium and sulfur, obviously.

I would say fix your pH before adding anything to the mixture, as your soil could possibly have the nutrients already.. and the micro nutrients that exhibit these types of deficiencies that your plant is showing lockout very easily above 7.0 as I am finding out the hard way.
Correcting the pH in soil will take some time, but be patient and don't do anything too drastic. good luck!
Ahh well fuck I already fed it again since it was recommended previously, but I think you're probably right. I wish I had a digital pH pen so I could tell exactly what the pH is. How would you recommend I lower the pH? Add a tsp of vinegar to my water or something before watering? Obviously the plant is already potted so I can't really change the soil mixture at all.
 

Shredder420

Member
Ahh well fuck I already fed it again since it was recommended previously, but I think you're probably right. I wish I had a digital pH pen so I could tell exactly what the pH is. How would you recommend I lower the pH? Add a tsp of vinegar to my water or something before watering? Obviously the plant is already potted so I can't really change the soil mixture at all.
Ok, this one's a little long but I swear it's worth it.

I hear ya man, I had the same issues with my last grow because I didn't have a pH pen, I decided to get a generic one off ebay from china for like $7 or $8 that looks identical to the milwaukee ones that are more expensive, and it seems to do a pretty decent job of it. I just look at it as an investment, and it makes things soooo much easier. don't forget calibration fluid to make sure the pen is accurate or else that could cause other problems. if you are using strips or color test kit you should still be able to gain some progress.

That's ok that you can't change the soil mixture, I always feel like I want to change the soil mix after encountering problems, but it just makes me that much wiser the next time around. Also, sometimes adding nutrients alone to the water can be enough to lower pH, depending on the nutrients.

As far as lowering the pH, I would start with trying to find what the pH is to begin with. If you use straight tap water, your local municipality should have water reports posted online, and if a recent one isn't up they will email you one as long as you search in the right place. It is required by law for them to have these reports, and it is very common for many different people ask for the quality report (after all, it is supposed to be potable), so asking will not draw any attention or raise any eyebrows. If you use bottled water, like I do, then water reports can be found online for almost every company out there. These reports should state the pH or at least an average range it will fall into. Find that number first, so you know where to start. I would say at the least it is difficult to estimate where the pH will end up when trying to adjust without a meter, but in this case a little more than necessary won't hurt it too bad, especially if you're up around 7.5, and they say the soil itself can be .2 to .3 higher than the runoff we read.. so keep this in mind also.
Now as far as actually lowering the water we are about to feed her, you can use a few things that are relatively cheap and everywhere. Yes, you can use vinegar, but I have heard double-sided claims on which type to use. Some growers have found that "white" or "distilled" vinegar gives them more accurate readings and maintains the pH longer than "apple cider" vinegar, while others have found the opposite true. I personally think it depends on your soil mix. You can also use lemon juice that comes in big bottles for like a buck or two at the grocery store, just make sure it's the concentrated juice and not lemonade for drinking. :lol:
I have heard that lemon juice tends to keep the pH lower for longer than vinegar, but have yet to compare and really depend on the stuff.
You should only have to use 1 or 2 teaspoons of either to lower the pH to an acceptable level for watering, but again you will find differences in how they each react to your water and depending on the brand, so less or more could be needed. Personally, if I had to choose, I would try lemon juice first (seems most natural), and if things weren't really improving then I'd take a stab at the distilled vinegar (cleaner than apple cider or balsamic). You might even be able to find somebody online who starts at the same pH and lowers using one of these, that way you can guesstimate how much to add per gallon. Some will tell you to not use either of these, ONLY use sulfuric, or phosphoric acids on soils stating that common acids such as acetic acid (vinegar) are toxic to plants, but many swear by vinegar and lemon juice all over the forums and use them not just for emergencies but all the time. I won't really get into the sulfuric and phosphoric acid, you can simply google it if you wish to make a pH down solution by using them in very diluted forms. Phosphoric acid is car battery acid and is relatively cheap in concentrate and should be sold at almost any auto parts store... so that is another alternative because pH down sold for growing is phosphoric acid. It is purely safe for your plants as long as it is the correct amounts mixed with water, and technically should do a better job at keeping the pH down over time versus the lemon juice or vinegar. I have heard some say the pH is up the next day after watering with lemon juice or vinegar adjusted water.

Well, shit it's late and I've been searching other places trying to make my answer as legit as possible because I know how frustrating this kinda stuff can be, so I hope I helped you out some and good luck with your search, and don't forget to keep us updated! time to smoke a bowl and pass out,
peace!

:peace:
 

209 Cali closet grower

Well-Known Member
Ok, this one's a little long but I swear it's worth it.

I hear ya man, I had the same issues with my last grow because I didn't have a pH pen, I decided to get a generic one off ebay from china for like $7 or $8 that looks identical to the milwaukee ones that are more expensive, and it seems to do a pretty decent job of it. I just look at it as an investment, and it makes things soooo much easier. don't forget calibration fluid to make sure the pen is accurate or else that could cause other problems. if you are using strips or color test kit you should still be able to gain some progress.

That's ok that you can't change the soil mixture, I always feel like I want to change the soil mix after encountering problems, but it just makes me that much wiser the next time around. Also, sometimes adding nutrients alone to the water can be enough to lower pH, depending on the nutrients.

As far as lowering the pH, I would start with trying to find what the pH is to begin with. If you use straight tap water, your local municipality should have water reports posted online, and if a recent one isn't up they will email you one as long as you search in the right place. It is required by law for them to have these reports, and it is very common for many different people ask for the quality report (after all, it is supposed to be potable), so asking will not draw any attention or raise any eyebrows. If you use bottled water, like I do, then water reports can be found online for almost every company out there. These reports should state the pH or at least an average range it will fall into. Find that number first, so you know where to start. I would say at the least it is difficult to estimate where the pH will end up when trying to adjust without a meter, but in this case a little more than necessary won't hurt it too bad, especially if you're up around 7.5, and they say the soil itself can be .2 to .3 higher than the runoff we read.. so keep this in mind also.
Now as far as actually lowering the water we are about to feed her, you can use a few things that are relatively cheap and everywhere. Yes, you can use vinegar, but I have heard double-sided claims on which type to use. Some growers have found that "white" or "distilled" vinegar gives them more accurate readings and maintains the pH longer than "apple cider" vinegar, while others have found the opposite true. I personally think it depends on your soil mix. You can also use lemon juice that comes in big bottles for like a buck or two at the grocery store, just make sure it's the concentrated juice and not lemonade for drinking. :lol:
I have heard that lemon juice tends to keep the pH lower for longer than vinegar, but have yet to compare and really depend on the stuff.
You should only have to use 1 or 2 teaspoons of either to lower the pH to an acceptable level for watering, but again you will find differences in how they each react to your water and depending on the brand, so less or more could be needed. Personally, if I had to choose, I would try lemon juice first (seems most natural), and if things weren't really improving then I'd take a stab at the distilled vinegar (cleaner than apple cider or balsamic). You might even be able to find somebody online who starts at the same pH and lowers using one of these, that way you can guesstimate how much to add per gallon. Some will tell you to not use either of these, ONLY use sulfuric, or phosphoric acids on soils stating that common acids such as acetic acid (vinegar) are toxic to plants, but many swear by vinegar and lemon juice all over the forums and use them not just for emergencies but all the time. I won't really get into the sulfuric and phosphoric acid, you can simply google it if you wish to make a pH down solution by using them in very diluted forms. Phosphoric acid is car battery acid and is relatively cheap in concentrate and should be sold at almost any auto parts store... so that is another alternative because pH down sold for growing is phosphoric acid. It is purely safe for your plants as long as it is the correct amounts mixed with water, and technically should do a better job at keeping the pH down over time versus the lemon juice or vinegar. I have heard some say the pH is up the next day after watering with lemon juice or vinegar adjusted water.

Well, shit it's late and I've been searching other places trying to make my answer as legit as possible because I know how frustrating this kinda stuff can be, so I hope I helped you out some and good luck with your search, and don't forget to keep us updated! time to smoke a bowl and pass out,
peace!

:peace:
Bro! all that shit you put^ and it's all wrong.Fuck it's a weed plant. For a small grower and using soil, a cheep ph reader is fine-I like to know mine too.But really I only used that pen 4 times in a year. Vinegar will fuck your plants up! I know!Why???ph swings from vinegar. Anyone who know plants will tell you ph swings will stunt or kill a plant.

For soil growing, do not add vinegar to lower ph water
 

SwagstaffBud

Active Member
Bro! all that shit you put^ and it's all wrong.Fuck it's a weed plant. For a small grower and using soil, a cheep ph reader is fine-I like to know mine too.But really I only used that pen 4 times in a year. Vinegar will fuck your plants up! I know!Why???ph swings from vinegar. Anyone who know plants will tell you ph swings will stunt or kill a plant.

For soil growing, do not add vinegar to lower ph water
Well if not vinegar, what should I do than? Is lemon juice also out of the question? I need to lower the ph somehow.
 

Shredder420

Member
Bro! all that shit you put^ and it's all wrong.Fuck it's a weed plant. For a small grower and using soil, a cheep ph reader is fine-I like to know mine too.But really I only used that pen 4 times in a year. Vinegar will fuck your plants up! I know!Why???ph swings from vinegar. Anyone who know plants will tell you ph swings will stunt or kill a plant.

For soil growing, do not add vinegar to lower ph water
Ok, so you don't agree with me, but it is not wrong. many people get along fine with it, and the main point I was trying to make is it should only be used if you have no money for legit shit. If you would have read it comprehensively, then you would have seen that I wrote vinegar can be toxic to plants, but for some people it does work. You were the one posting false info such as saying epsom salts is cal mag, so don't come flaming me because you don't like my opinion. That is all I was clearly doing is stating my opinion, because that is what he asked for and other people have had success with vinegar and lemon juice - I clearly stated I have not personally used this, so again I stated my info was based on what I have heard or read and I am only trying to steer him in the right direction to find out for himself. That is what it really comes down to in growing anything, and the term "weed" means nothing. If you have "weeds" in your garden, they are still angiosperms and gymnosperms, but are not desired in the specific environment. My main point was,
"look, here is what others have said, I have no experience with these and if you want the correct results for your specific grow, then you need to cater to your specific growing needs."
Do your own trial and error, and learn what works for your setup. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to make shit legit, then you will clearly suffer. Yes, you can use vinegar if you really have nothing else, But if you spend the time and do what is proven, such as how I stated the differences between the acids... then things will be easier. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and because I offer an opinion, that is all it is - an opinion. Atleast I am putting multiple alternatives to lowering pH instead of just coming to bash. Do your own research, do your own experiments, otherwise just listening to what everybody says is plain ignorance. google is fucking easy to use and shit, it works for me. Help the OP, give him an answer instead of raggin on somebody trying to help. Every single one of my posts is informative and concise.
 
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