It's A Fuct World

[legaleyes13]

Sorry to intrude on this response but I thought I may have something to add. I too bought some 180w LED's from SPectra (wattage reduced to 140 or so), which do indeed not work for flowering, but it turns out they make very good vegging lights. Whether or not they would be adequate to keep your perpetual going, I won't say, but they work much better for vegging that they do for flowering! They seem to provide superior vegetative vigor compared to T5 as well. Good luck!

Thank you very much my man. I don't recall having much of a problem with them during veg, but I admit that it was so long ago that I didn't quite remember.

And you have the best avatar on the board...

 

[Al B. Fuct]

I am starting from seed.

Have seedlings in 1.5" rockwool cubes under T5 6 bulb at about 3" from the canopy

OK.

Im running ph water 5.5-5.8 on the seedling for 2 weeks

Seedlings should be getting plain tap water (ph ~7), no need for pH correction, until they develop their 1st set of 'true' leaves, when they can take a weak veg nute soln, around 500ppm (EC 0.7) at 5.8. Hold them at 500ppm until they have their 3rd set of true leaves and several roots out of the bottom of the cube, at which time you can put them in pots of media and introduce them to your 400HPS at a distance of about 1m. If all looks well, raise the nute strength to 1000ppm, lower the lamp to about 750mm & you're off to the races.

flushing from the top of the rockwool cube to rid salt crust on the block and test run off every 3-4 days with 20ml of ph 5.5 water...

5.5 is too low & will lock out certain nutrients. Top watering 40mm RW cubes will result in saturation and root damage from overwatering. Better to dip a corner of the cube in your nute soln until the cube weighs about 20g.

Do you get salt crust on the top of your clone cubes? and Do you flush the cubes from the top to get EC reading of the clones run off?

No, because I don't give clones any nutes, just plain water, hence no nutrient salt crust. My clones don't get nutes until they have a decent spray of roots and go into the flowering area, whne they get 1000ppm off the bat.

You advise with clay pellets to flood a 1/2" below where the cube is set. With the wicking power of loose rockwool absorbent I get that you only have to flood about 1 to 3" but how deep do I put the seedling cube or clone cube? how deep do you place the cubes in Loose Roc/ STG? i

You can place cubes in absorbent media like STG with the top of the cube level with the top of the medium. Flood to 25-50mm, wicking will do the rest.

Should I put my 2 week seedlings in 8.5"x 8" pot that I have reserved for my mothers or work my way up to the 8.5" pot? I have a 400w hps for the mothers. If I remember correctly you flood for five minute intervals once a day for your mothers right....and five min intervals twice a day with the STG

Once your seedlings have got 3 sets of true leaves and a decent spray of roots out of the cubes, they can go directly into pots of media and be places under your 400HPS, as noted above.

Historic hurricane happening outside right now, what a good time for my first post ever on the worldwide web

Jeez, hope you & yours are OK. Horrific images coming out of NJ & NYC. Hope you have mains power...

Al B you took a already 6 year crazed lunatic and turned me into a monster, THANK YOU

I'm hoping that's a good thing. I have my worries about crazed lunatic monsters, you know.

Al, I can't stop saying Thank You. You deserve a medal or something...

'Thanks' will do, no medals required- unless they're the chocolate medals, the sort in gold foil wrappers. I do like those.

But if I'm gonna need about 49 clones every 2 weeks, how many mothers do you suggest I keep, and under what amount of wattage?

You should be able to get that qty of clones with about 10-12 well-developed mums under a 400 HPS. You'll be actively taking clones off about 8 of those, reserving space for 4-6 mums which are being grown up to replace the mums which are getting a bit long in the tooth. Replace your mums with clones taken from the older mums about every 2-3 mos.

And by the way, I have 8 125W LEDs laying around (big waste of money, if you ever intend to flower with these things), so I could use those for the mothers, but if you think HID is the way to go, I'll take your advice.

You can have a try with the LEDs for vegging, but I'm not hopeful due to their low light intensity. I use a 400HPS over my mums because the high intensity produces rapid growth and thick stems, which contribute to far better performing clones.

 

[NewguyNL]

Are your mothers in a ~1 gallon pots?

 

[ringlead3r]

Al have you experimented with pot size and if so what sizes have you tried and what gives the the overall best yield per sq ft. I also made a clone box similar to yours however my clones are wilting pretty good just wondering what I'm missing. Thanks a Bunch!

 

[ringlead3r]

to add
i have the heating mat
inside the box isn't wrapped in plastic
no exhaust fan
2 t5 4100k lights
rapid rooter grow cubes
im wetting the cube and i do spray the leaves but not drench

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Are your mothers in a ~1 gallon pots?

No, they're in 175mm x 175mm dia standard pots, which are about 3L. 1 US gallon is 3.78L. Make friends with the metric system!

Al have you experimented with pot size and if so what sizes have you tried and what gives the the overall best yield per sq ft.

I've always used the 175mm dia x 175mm tall pots. So it happens, 24 fit tightly in a 900mm x 900mm flood tray, which prevents pots from tipping over. Would fit 25 but the overflow & fill fittings in the middle of the tray prevent putting a pot there.

It also happens that a properly SoG pruned plant occupies about a 175mm circle, so going with smaller pots would increase plant density to the point where airflow around the plants would be unacceptably impeded by fan leaves- which you don't want to remove!

I also made a clone box similar to yours however my clones are wilting pretty good just wondering what I'm missing. Thanks a Bunch!

My clonebox has a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan which holds he clonebox at about 27-28C. There's a heat mat, also thermostatically controlled to run at 30C. If your box is running warmer than that, it would produce wilty plants. Also, 40mm rockwool cubes are very easy to overwater. A properly damp wrapped 40mm cube weighs about 20g. Heavier than that is too wet. Saturated, overwet cubes will rot stem tips. Rotted stem tips will not allow water to flow up the stem, consequently producing wilted clones.

to add
i have the heating mat
inside the box isn't wrapped in plastic
no exhaust fan
2 t5 4100k lights
rapid rooter grow cubes
im wetting the cube and i do spray the leaves but not drench

The inside of my clonebox is lined with white coroplast, recycled from some old real estate signs. It's there for cleanability and light reflection.

Your clonebox will need a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan to hold the air temp down to about 28C max. Fluoro ballasts make a fair amount of heat.

T5 lamps are about 4 feet long- your box can't be similar in size to mine.



I'm using 3x 18", twin tube fluoro fixtures. T5s are not necessary for clones- they simply don't need a lot of light.

I don't use Rapid Rooters because they're made of compressed peat- an organic material which can support mould growth. They also fragment when exposed to H2O2, also because they're made of organic matter.

There is no need to spray clones. They should be getting sufficient water uptake from the stem cut, provided the tip has not rotted from overwet/saturated conditions.

You need a peak-memory thermometer in the clonebox so you know with some certainty what the temp range happens to be in the box.

 

[ringlead3r]

Thanks I will be changing my clone box around however my t5s are only 2 ft long and i will be getting rid of the Rapid Rooters on the next batch.

Pot size. I'm more concerned about the roots, I'm wondering if you ran lets say 3 less plants, but larger pots if the roots could grow more and produce more weight on end result. I was hoping you already tried this or could tell me that the roots Couldn't even use more than 3L of growing medium for this set up is what I was asking I guess.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Thanks I will be changing my clone box around however my t5s are only 2 ft long and i will be getting rid of the Rapid Rooters on the next batch.

Hmm, OK on the 2' T5s, but there's still no need for high light intensity for clones.

Pot size. I'm more concerned about the roots, I'm wondering if you ran lets say 3 less plants, but larger pots if the roots could grow more and produce more weight on end result. I was hoping you already tried this or could tell me that the roots Couldn't even use more than 3L of growing medium for this set up is what I was asking I guess.

SoG plant size is deliberately limited by flowering immediately after clones set root. Even with more rootzone volume, they won't get bigger. My flowering plants don't come close to filling the 3L of medium volume they have available. I could use slightly smaller pots and grow more plants, but I'm already at the greatest density of foliar mass I'm comfortable with in terms of keeping adequate air circ around the plants to prevent mould & powdery mildew.

 

[legaleyes13]

Al, on average, how much do you yield per plant? I know you've answered this question before, on the 1st page even. But I know somewhere else in the thread after adding cool tubes and making other adjustments that your yield improved but I can't find what page it was. I'm asking because I'm in the process of building my aero system and I'm about to drill holes for the net pots and your answer will dictate how many sites I make... And, if I recall I think you said at best you do about a oz per plant, but is that ordinary or a freak occurrence? I've been researching other clone to flower ops and you are up there with the best yielders.

Thanks man.

 

[trichome fiend]

...Al brother, I just want to say, your one hell of a dude to spend your time here, and to keep repeating the same answers over, and over, and over....I hope your perseverance to spread info leads you to a wonderful place, somewhere, someday.....(from the heart!)

 

[Adrive]

I just transplanted two seedlings into a pot of loose rockwool, water repellent. It seems it's drying out too quickly.

Al B: Do you recommend using a 50/50 mixture of repellent/absorbent?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Al, on average, how much do you yield per plant?

On average, about .75oz per plant.

...Al brother, I just want to say, your one hell of a dude to spend your time here, and to keep repeating the same answers over, and over, and over....I hope your perseverance to spread info leads you to a wonderful place, somewhere, someday.....(from the heart!)

Thanks for that, but I'm already in a wonderful place. US Republicans call it 'Australia,' and about this, we are most amused.

I just transplanted two seedlings into a pot of loose rockwool, water repellent. It seems it's drying out too quickly.

Al B: Do you recommend using a 50/50 mixture of repellent/absorbent?

You should not use water-repellent rockwool at all. The stuff makes pretty good insulation but not so hot for use as a hydroponic medium.

 

[JCKHMR]

Hello Al,
A couple days ago I stumbled onto your "...every 2 week" thread from '07 and kept reading till my eyes bled! Great stuff - straight forward, gotta be some of the best no-nonsense info I've ever seen out there! Got me thinking about a major redesign of 'the set-up.' You signed off the site back then 'cause you were moving on to other pursuits, but after bouncing around the site a bit - to my surprise... The Phoenix has arisen! Just wanted to drop a note of thanks and to add my name to the legions of devoted "Fuct-ers" on this site. Keep doing what you do...

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Hello Al,
A couple days ago I stumbled onto your "...every 2 week" thread from '07 and kept reading till my eyes bled! Great stuff - straight forward, gotta be some of the best no-nonsense info I've ever seen out there! Got me thinking about a major redesign of 'the set-up.' You signed off the site back then 'cause you were moving on to other pursuits, but after bouncing around the site a bit - to my surprise... The Phoenix has arisen! Just wanted to drop a note of thanks and to add my name to the legions of devoted "Fuct-ers" on this site. Keep doing what you do...

Thanks.

The biggest pitfall for would-be w33d b4R0ns is the failure to use evidence-based techniques. All too common is the ineffective and inefficient scattergun approach where lots of expensive and unproven 'magic sauce' additives are thrown at a crop, often causing problems and always costing more than is necessary to do a good grow.

There's one constant; you cannot convince w33d b4R0ns to do things correctly or to believe actual evidence, even if you shove it right up their noses with a hydraulic ram.

Case in point; there's a clown posting in this hydroponics subforum who is growing in soil (so, you already can tell this cat's an expert...) and is not only spraying H2O2 on his leaves (um, why?) but is using 3% pharmacy grade, which is wholly useless in hydroponics, even if correctly used as a nutrient solution steriliser, because low-strength H2O2 contains sodium stannate to keep it from breaking down into 2H2O + O in storage. Sodium stannate is toxic to plants and to humans in sufficient quantity. Brimming over with wrongability, but this cat tells me that I'm just all wrong about this sodium stannate toxicity stuff, because he's found it used as an ingredient in tooth whitening goo (in use as a stabiliser for H2O2 in the stuff), yet ignores the warning of toxicity on the MSDS issued by a manufacturer of sodium stannate. Face, meet palm.

There's few adages that you can uniformly apply to growing dope, but KISS is one of them. You must start with good grow room design, basing it largely on how you will fit in adequate ventilation and cooltube air supply & exhaust with the structure that will house your op. Work with with the bare minimums- good quality nutes, HPS lights, control temp & humidity to the acceptable range (24-26C, 30-50%RH), assure adequate ventilation, be vigilant for common pests like fungus gnats, whitefly & spider mites and sterilise nute solutions regularly every 3-4 days with 1ml/L of 50% grade H2O2. If you do those things, I'll put your odds of success at >98%. Avoiding 'organic' nutrients and expensive, unproven nonsense 'magic sauces' will make your life much easier and help your op produce reliably for years to come.

I do have to confess that I stopped posting voluminously on cannabis boards for more cause than just taking a gig doing some website work. I simply cannot keep up with the Legion of Stupid. I don't have the time nor inclination to chase every wrongheaded dumbass around on this board, let alone all of them. My objective is to help readers grow good dope for a reasonable investment. If I'm asked about something, I'll happily answer with the best information I can present. However, I'm not keen to debate basic science or botany with some dimwitted w33d b4R0n who's already convinced he's right and my 25+ years of cranking out poundage reliably is just rubbish. Fuck those idiots. The penalty for ignoring me is a problematic grow op that produces nothing or damned close to it after a huge financial and time investment.

To you growers with some commonsense- keep at it and I'll try to be here to help as much as I can.

 

[stormp]

Hey Al

Sometime soon after i took my medication today i decided that i should become a w33d b4R0n.
So naturaly i read every thread in the organics forum and now i can safely say that i know everything there is to know about growing.

Well, all kidding aside ... i havent started growing anything but i have found great comfort in reading your threads after having started out reading a lot of bullshit written by people that should know better.

I have experience from reef keeping so stuff like ph and microsiemens isnt scary to me. What was scary was reading about all these rituals and endless additives that was absolutely needed to prevent Bad Things from happening.

So thanks for putting a repeatable, sane method out here. It really makes a difference for us noobs

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Hey Al

Sometime soon after i took my medication today i decided that i should become a w33d b4R0n.
So naturaly i read every thread in the organics forum and now i can safely say that i know everything there is to know about growing.

Well, all kidding aside ... i havent started growing anything but i have found great comfort in reading your threads after having started out reading a lot of bullshit written by people that should know better.

I have experience from reef keeping so stuff like ph and microsiemens isnt scary to me. What was scary was reading about all these rituals and endless additives that was absolutely needed to prevent Bad Things from happening.

So thanks for putting a repeatable, sane method out here. It really makes a difference for us noobs

Happy to help.

I just wrote a relatively long reply on another thread which has some bearing on what we're takling about here, so I'm going to repost it here in entirety.

BUdbuddysmile is asking our unmethodical, anti-scientific H2O2 leaf-sprayer what the deal was- and I reply to him:

So, how was it helpful? You said faster germination and healthier sprouts. How? Im not being a jerk, I just don't see any reason in using it in a foliar. so lmao all you want. I am all about trying new things and experimenting but this just didn't sound right to me. You just havnt explained why very well.

There is no benefit to use of H2O2 in a foliar spray. Zero.

Strangely enough, if someone really knows what they're talking about, they'll be able to describe extraordinarily complex phenomenae in a few simple sentences.

Every single aspect of growing cannabis is well known and is describable with previous scientific and botanical research. You can 'experiment' and 'try new things' if you are a university-level botanical scientist or organic chemist on the bleeding edge of research in the field. Oh, and by the way, spending a few hours on Google is NOT 'research.'

Anyone who wants you to believe that they've made a world-changing discovery in their basement should be treated with extreme skepticism. Actual leaps in science almost never happen like that and for good reason; real science is testable and replicatable by independent experimenters.

Dr Robert Park wrote a brilliant summation of nuttery in his piece "Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science," which you should read, read again and read again until you can recite it from memory, but here's the gist:

1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media.
2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work.
3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.
4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal
5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for centuries.
6. The discoverer has worked in isolation.
7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation.

The vast majority of people reading cannabis boards just want to successfully grow dope. It is not within their purview to work out how to turn unicorn poo into gold-plated cannabis buds.

If you want to learn how to grow dope, read about how experts who are successfully growing dope are doing it.

If you want to fuck up a grow, try a bunch of random shit with no particular clue what effect you're about to try will have, and when it fails, blame the Illuminati.

 

[ectweak]

I have been reading through countless "Manuals" and all of your threads (trying to sift through the nonsense almost made me want to quit) But I have finally gotten to the point that I am going to begin my first Grow.

Being someone who like to have control of everything, I have decided to start with Hydroponics, as well as it becoming Winter in my hemisphere, and it is the only way to grow at this time.

A couple questions I had was, would I be able to start smaller, and work my way up to your setup.

e.g. I was planning on purchasing a 2'x2' table, a 60 litre reservoir, and a 400w HPS for growing. Would this setup still benefit somewhat from the SoG growing style (14 rooted clones placed in 12/12 and trimmed) or would it not work as well.

I was also told by one of the hydro shops I was planning on buying from that it wouldn't be as efficient to rotate 4 trays, as you have to clean everything out. I didn't see as much of a problem with this, as I could dedicate the rotation to be on say, Sunday, and I could clean just after their morning flood and drain, and the plants would have enough nutrients in the material (rockwool mini-blocks) to cover the time it took to clean everything.

also, one thing I never noticed mentioned has been the cleaning. Should I pull out the plants to be harvested, and move my way backward through the trays, cleaning them, and then put the plants up to dry (or even build one of your driers?) or would you recommend something else entirely.

I am new at this, but would appreciate you bestowing myself and others with your wisdom, and apologies if I have asked questions that have already been answered.

 

[stormp]

Even the crystal wizards know what works

So far my plant has reacted greatly to the moss agate pyramid. I put it right in between the 2 buckets on the ground. My root mass has increased incredibly the past few days. Granted I have been using h2o2 and switched out the water with fresh nutes.

 

[doniawon]

lol crystal wizards..

 

[NewguyNL]

Thanks, can you tell me how far from plants is your AAW in cooltube?