It's A Fuct World

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
i forgot to turn my timers back on last night after messing with shit becuz i rushed for lights out. came out this morning and found them still sleeping. they get 4 hours less light today. too many bongsmilie
Well, a long night (or even a couple days of total darkness) in flowering is a lot less sinful than a long day or interrupted dark cycle. The former will reduce yield slightly while the latter can induce hermaphrodism and make a general fucking mess of things. Pollinated seed bracts die back & go to mould, making the buds good candidates for compost unless surgically manicured (read: pain in the ass).

I got buried in work not long back and didn't harvest some plants fast enough. Excessive flowering time (on the order of 11-12 wks) is a pretty sure way to induce hermaphrodism.
 

wheels619

Well-Known Member
Well, a long night (or even a couple days of total darkness) in flowering is a lot less sinful than a long day or interrupted dark cycle. The former will reduce yield slightly while the latter can induce hermaphrodism and make a general fucking mess of things. Pollinated seed bracts die back & go to mould, making the buds good candidates for compost unless surgically manicured (read: pain in the ass).
it got worst. the power strip i was using died completely later in the day. lol. had a few laying around so it wasnt a big deal. but made me a little unsure as to how long they were in the dark again for.:wall:
 

legaleyes13

Well-Known Member
Hey Al, thanks again for all of your help...

A couple of posts back, you recommended that I use cooltubes to avoid heat issues. Now, while they're certainly the best reflectors for avoiding heat issues, I've only heard bad things about them as they pertain to reflecting light... will I run into any problems with them, and what type of reflectors do you use?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Hey Al, thanks again for all of your help...

A couple of posts back, you recommended that I use cooltubes to avoid heat issues. Now, while they're certainly the best reflectors for avoiding heat issues, I've only heard bad things about them as they pertain to reflecting light... will I run into any problems with them, and what type of reflectors do you use?
Throw the reflectors included with cooltubes in the bin & hang the 'tubes under some Adjust-A-Wings batwing reflectors.
 

wheels619

Well-Known Member
a few companies actually make a cooltube with a full size built in reflector. kinda nice when heat issues are ur worst enemy.
 

legaleyes13

Well-Known Member
Throw the reflectors included with cooltubes in the bin & hang the 'tubes under some Adjust-A-Wings batwing reflectors.
Okay. Here's the thing Al,

I already have 4 reflectors; 3 radiant 6'' and 1 XXXL, so I don't want to have to buy 4 cooltubes. Of course there isn't much advice you could give me, other than see how my current reflectors work and then go from there. But with your expertise, do you anticipate me running into heat issues with my current hoods. I'll have an AC, dehumidifier and 2 vortex fans, one pulling hot air from each pair of reflectors...

I noticed that your op improved when you switched to cooltubes, but can't recall what kind of reflectors you had before switching. And how close to the canopy do you keep your lights? Thanks again...
 

Ganjapussy

New Member
Hey Al... Have you ever heard of cloning a auto, is it possible and work? Why do you have clones instead of autos? What's your take on that?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
a few companies actually make a cooltube with a full size built in reflector. kinda nice when heat issues are ur worst enemy.
The reflectors supplied with cooltubes are generally poor compared to the Adjust-A-Wings double parabola 'batwing' design. This is why I married some cooltubes to some Adjusta-A-Wings Large Avengers:


AAW_cooltubes.jpg

Okay. Here's the thing Al,

I already have 4 reflectors; 3 radiant 6'' and 1 XXXL, so I don't want to have to buy 4 cooltubes.
OK

Of course there isn't much advice you could give me, other than see how my current reflectors work and then go from there. But with your expertise, do you anticipate me running into heat issues with my current hoods. I'll have an AC, dehumidifier and 2 vortex fans, one pulling hot air from each pair of reflectors...
Ventilated hoods of the sort you have generally have poor light spread and are not adjustable. One of the design strengths of AAWs is that simply by changing the length of the stainless cables (just move crimped ends to a different adjustment slot on the reflector) they can be focused narrowly or broadly, depending on your needs at the time. Hoods also have a lot more surface area to transfer heat into the room airmass than do cooltubes, meaning cooltubes a more efficient at shifting heat from the lights out of the room before it gets a chance to radiate off the light fixture's surfaces.

BTW, fans should be placed such that they are pushing cool air into a cooltube or air-cooled hood instead of sucking air out. Fan motors generate a fair amount of heat on their own and rely on the air that they move to cool themselves. Putting them in the warm air stream may shorten their lifespans.

I noticed that your op improved when you switched to cooltubes, but can't recall what kind of reflectors you had before switching. And how close to the canopy do you keep your lights? Thanks again...
I had a set of AAWs and added the cooltubes to them. To obtain even light coverage of my trays, the bottom of the cooltubes are about 700mm above the trays. However, with cooltubes, it's possible for the plant tops to be within about 200mm of the cooltube (or even closer) without risking any heat damage to the plants.

Hey Al... Have you ever heard of cloning a auto, is it possible and work? Why do you have clones instead of autos? What's your take on that?
Autoflowering plants flower in relation to the age of the plant, without regard to photoperiod. After a certain period of vegging, they'll flower, without changing the photoperiod to 12/12. This makes it impossible to maintain mother plants of autoflowering strains. Autoflowering strains mus be grown from seed for every crop. As such, it wouldn't be possible to clone them. Naturally, this means autoflowering strains cannot be used in SoG ops.

In addition to that, I've not heard glowing reviews of the smoking qualities of autoflowering strains, though I'm sure there's got to be a decent smoking one somewhere.

If you're growing indoors, controlling photoperiod is not a problem. There's simply no need for autoflowering strains.
 

trichome fiend

Well-Known Member
If you're growing indoors, controlling photoperiod is not a problem. There's simply no need for autoflowering strains.
....amen! I've never grown any myself and wouldn't consider them indoors... but I've thought about making a large order of regular autoflowers to harvest seeds....once I have the seeds, plant them outdoors, then pull males. I'm pretty sure I could get 3 crops annually....then again, I hear the ruderalis takes away from the potency, so don't know if it'd be worth the work...but it would definately be an option if a guy was trying to hide from the choppers!...around my area, a guy could pull a harvest before the choppers even start to run.
 

legaleyes13

Well-Known Member
"I had a set of AAWs and added the cooltubes to them. To obtain even light coverage of my trays, the bottom of the cooltubes are about 700mm above the trays. However, with cooltubes, it's possible for the plant tops to be within about 200mm of the cooltube (or even closer) without risking any heat damage to the plants." - Al B Fuct


Okay thanks Al,

But just so I'm perfectly clear. You keep your lights 700mm away from the tray and not the canopy, regardless of how tall your plants get? And unfortunately for me, I don't know that I'll be able to afford cooltubes and AAWs, so I may just have to stick with what I have.

And you're right, the hoods I currently have don't spread light as well as the large AAWs, but they are more intense to the plants directly beneath them. In all honesty, I'll have them over 4x4 trays, so I would prefer the AAWs in this scenario, as I think that great spreading of the light would be slightly more valuable than great intensity directly beneath. Take a look at this link for yourself, and tell me what you think.

ePerimeter = spread, eInside = intensity directly beneath reflector
http://www.greners.com/reflector-test.html
 

Gibb

Member
Al, are you worried about the air cooling the arc tube of that vent system? The colder bulb will cost a loss of voltage.
 

ilikecheetoes

Well-Known Member
hey Al. thanks for all your posts. I've been doing your method for a couple years now with a couple twists.
I use 2x4 trays because they are easier to move and clean and transport in a normal car ;)
I use 28 pots in each tray. I want to say they are 5inch pots but maybe 6inch. The cheap black ones you get at the grow shops.
I use perlite as my medium. I have found that it doesnt get heavy like hydroton, its cheap, it fills in well by just shaking the pot as you transplant the clones in.

One thing I have always sucked at is cloning. I've gone back and forth from your method to aero and i'm just coming off a run of just buying clones. (just beat down an infestation so its time to go back to my own stuff, dirty clones suck).

Soooo I thought I'd ask about rockwool. I generally use the sheets of 1 or maybe 2 inch cloners. like these:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hydroempire.com/store/images/1x1x1.5cube_Lrg.gif&imgrefurl=http://nevadanaturals.com/accessories/growing-media&h=350&w=356&sz=79&tbnid=ZkcNTJh6nARudM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=95&zoom=1&usg=__8ZQ68DDdadN9G37KOM0jScE7uds=&docid=WowOuOE4ZzHTPM&sa=X&ei=70t_UOnwM8To2gWrx4DoBg&ved=0CDQQ9QEwAQ&dur=331

Have you ever used these? My aversion to using the 40mm square like you is the cost and space they take up.

I was going to try to mimic you every way I could other than that but I cant fit the slab into a salad spinner lol. So after soak I will just shake the shit out of it.
Second issue with those trays is the additional watering.
I was just putting the slab onto a net bottom tray then that tray in a normal tray (with a humidome) So I could just lift up the inner tray and set it in another tray with water.
This of course soaks the cubes which why my results are like 50% and take 3 or more weeks.

So I need to figure a better way of watering.

And I thought you got a new job and disappeared? Welcome back !!!
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
....amen! I've never grown any myself and wouldn't consider them indoors... but I've thought about making a large order of regular autoflowers to harvest seeds....once I have the seeds, plant them outdoors, then pull males. I'm pretty sure I could get 3 crops annually....then again, I hear the ruderalis takes away from the potency, so don't know if it'd be worth the work...but it would definately be an option if a guy was trying to hide from the choppers!...around my area, a guy could pull a harvest before the choppers even start to run.
There's probably an entire subforum somewhere on RIU devoted to guerrilla growing with auto strains.

But just so I'm perfectly clear. You keep your lights 700mm away from the tray and not the canopy, regardless of how tall your plants get?
They're roughly 700mm above the trays, but my lights are hung with yo-yos, so I can adjust the clearance whenever it suits me. Usually about 200mm above the tops.

And unfortunately for me, I don't know that I'll be able to afford cooltubes and AAWs, so I may just have to stick with what I have.
When you consider the returns on an op the size you're considering, you can afford a fair bit more than you think you can.
And you're right, the hoods I currently have don't spread light as well as the large AAWs, but they are more intense to the plants directly beneath them. In all honesty, I'll have them over 4x4 trays, so I would prefer the AAWs in this scenario, as I think that great spreading of the light would be slightly more valuable than great intensity directly beneath.
With the hoods you've got, you will need to shuffle plants around frequently to get even development on all your plants. The large AAWs permit fine adjustment of beamspread such that the plants furthest away from the lamp tube are actually getting slightly MORE light than the plants directly below the lamp. Worth doing.

Al, are you worried about the air cooling the arc tube of that vent system? The colder bulb will cost a loss of voltage.
No. The quartz arc tube itself is insulated by the glass envelope. Cooltubes don't affect the luminous output of HPS jugs.

Do you have any recommendations on which tester I should use for a ebb and flow?
There's no better nutrient strength meter than the Bluelab Truncheon. Ultra-durable, easy to read. You'll only ever buy one. Eutech makes some excellent pH meters. Buy one of their waterproof models like the Tester 10. Avoid Hanna meters.

hey Al. thanks for all your posts. I've been doing your method for a couple years now with a couple twists.
I use 2x4 trays because they are easier to move and clean and transport in a normal car :wink:
I use 28 pots in each tray. I want to say they are 5inch pots but maybe 6inch. The cheap black ones you get at the grow shops.
I use perlite as my medium. I have found that it doesnt get heavy like hydroton, its cheap, it fills in well by just shaking the pot as you transplant the clones in.
Works for me!

One thing I have always sucked at is cloning. I've gone back and forth from your method to aero and i'm just coming off a run of just buying clones. (just beat down an infestation so its time to go back to my own stuff, dirty clones suck).
Cloning requires practice. Hardest thing is getting the watering right. Super-easy to overwater clones in RW cubes.

The 40mm cubes don't take up THAT much space- and they hold enough water without saturation to get through 12 hours on a heat mat.

I was going to try to mimic you every way I could other than that but I cant fit the slab into a salad spinner lol.
That's a bit of a problem, isn't it? ;)

So after soak I will just shake the shit out of it.
You'll probably end up crushing the material and losing the airspaces.

Second issue with those trays is the additional watering.
I was just putting the slab onto a net bottom tray then that tray in a normal tray (with a humidome) So I could just lift up the inner tray and set it in another tray with water.
This of course soaks the cubes which why my results are like 50% and take 3 or more weeks.
Sounds like you're seriously overwatering. Humidomes are not necessary- and they're not helping your overwatering problems. If the stem cut is clean & sterile, the clone can get all the water it needs without having to limit transpiration with humidomes.

So I need to figure a better way of watering.
Use the 40mm wrapped cubes so you can tailor the watering to each individual clone. A properly damp 40mm cube weighs about 20g. Heavier is too wet.

And I thought you got a new job and disappeared? Welcome back !!!
I did, still doing it, but I drop in here when I can.

hey ALB what size t5 would be best to do say 20 cuttings at a time ? does 2 x 55w sound ok ?
cheers mate
Wouldn't use a T5, far too big. Clones don't need much light. My clonebox has 3x 18" twin-tube fluoro fixtures- and that's even a bit of overkill, 2 twin-tube fixtures would be fine. I think the lamps are 18W each.

1_batchoclones21.jpg
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Just a small note about economy & value: Growing dope indoors with hydroponics will cost you some money. An op like mine would cost about $4-5000 to set up and I bet I dump about $700/mo into it, considering electricity & all consumables. It outputs about 18-20oz/mo, more or less. I do like the Grodan MM40/40 40mm cubes, which if you buy them one at a time from a particularly greedy hydro shop, can cost 50c each. Mind, if you buy a carton of 2250 of them (about $450) only cost about 20c/ea. Gotta figure that a carton of 40mm cubes costs less than what 1.5oz of buds are worth- and will last me a few years.

Perspective, folks- perspective!
 

butcher73

Member
thanx ALB :) for in rainy humid areas what would the best filter be for the intake fan coming from outside ? would it be better to suck air into a first room then into the tent from that room ? or just suck fresh air from outside then direct into the grow room/tent via a filter to avoid mould etc ? what does a carbon filter do in the extraction of air out of the room ? is it just to filter the smell ? thank you heaps for your time to answer my questions ,,cheers
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
thanx ALB :) for in rainy humid areas what would the best filter be for the intake fan coming from outside ? would it be better to suck air into a first room then into the tent from that room ? or just suck fresh air from outside then direct into the grow room/tent via a filter to avoid mould etc ? what does a carbon filter do in the extraction of air out of the room ? is it just to filter the smell ? thank you heaps for your time to answer my questions ,,cheers
Filtration will have no effect on humidity. Mould spores will get through all but HEPA quality filtration. However, a layer of old pantyhose material stretched over the air intake will help keep bugs out of your op. It's difficult to prevent light from escaping your air intake, so I'd be inclined to draw air in from an adjoining room instead of directly from outdoors, but your situation may permit it. Your judgment call. Yes, carbon filters are mainly for stopping scents escaping, but they also will help muffle sound from your exhaust blower.
 

butcher73

Member
ALB as for lighting in a 8 x 4 room i was thinking of going 2 x 600w cooltubes ,, do you think get the cooltubes with the external reflectors ? or i noticed you mentioned something bout fixing the tube to adjustawing reflecrors ? ive read here n there that cooltubes loose alot of lumens over air cooled hoods ,, whats your opinion on that ? i think the tubes would suit hot humid area im in but ive never used them before ,, 2 x 600w would be fine for an 8 x4 room ? once again cheers for your advice ..
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
ALB as for lighting in a 8 x 4 room i was thinking of going 2 x 600w cooltubes ,, do you think get the cooltubes with the external reflectors ?
Yep.

or i noticed you mentioned something bout fixing the tube to adjustawing reflecrors ?
Yep.

ive read here n there that cooltubes loose alot of lumens over air cooled hoods ,, whats your opinion on that ?
Nope, they're about the same in terms of light lost through the glass. Cooltubes with AAWs will spread light more evenly over a recutangular area, though. You might opt for the medium sized AAWs in your case.

i think the tubes would suit hot humid area im in but ive never used them before ,, 2 x 600w would be fine for an 8 x4 room ? once again cheers for your advice ..
Pretty small room. You could fit 2 900x900mm trays in there under 2x 600HPS just fine.
 
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