The legalization tide rises...

canndo

Well-Known Member
Actually, no I did not vote for them. I didnt vote at all. If you continued to follow my posts, within weeks of the vote I was sick of their constant lying. I wont vote for outright liars. I believe Obama policies make gas prices rise, yes I do, still do. You have some facts to show otherwise? When I say facts, facts everyone agrees with, not that can be contested by 20 different "facts".
Now we know what is going to happen next. Are you paying attention at all? Our economy is screwed man, sorry you dont see it.
400k+ unemployment benefit applications last month. Even with Sandy it is astronomical.

Now, show me some facts to change the facts I already know about them and I will be willing to change my mind.
I have shown over and over again how Obama has nothing to do with the price of gas rising - I have posted graphs and numbers and reasoning. I will make it short - the price of gas cannot rise based upon Obama's policies if we our primary export is now.... gas. Obama has nothing to do with the over all fluctuations of the price of fuel.

Now the problem is that you want "facts everyone can agree with" and that isn't going to happen so long as you don't see the facts as.... facts and adhere to a viewpoint first and facts second, which is exactly what you are doing when you clam that this president has something to do with gas prices.

oh, so now, because Obama took a nearly collapsed economy and tried to at least level things, our economy is screwed right? Let's take a little look at who is "screwing" the economy yet again. Your brethren are making a hard line stand over rasing taxes on the wealthy or we go over that physcal cliff that they thenmselves agreed to - with a bipartisan committee that they helped create. Now because they have made some assinine Nordquist pledge to never raise taxes and they are sticking to it (even though they can't seem to stick to any other pledge), then we are going to go back into the dumpster - and they will be rooting around to find some way to blame Obama. It won't work, just as this election was a disaster for them. Republicans have proven over and over again that they care not one whit for this country and they are likely to do it again, just before their demise.

I doubt you are willing to change your mind because I have already given you figures on gas and posted them several times, and it seems you haven't paid any attention to them.


And that, sir, is was my original point.

Conservativism, in it's current state is a dead horse, there is no country on earth that practices it to their advantage, we have 30 years going on 40 of proof that their concepts and ideology doesn't work and we are stuck with the consequences of their attempts. Yet all they have to offer us by way of explaination is that we havn't acted conservative enough.


Time to get off that track or find another train Althor - your ideology is officialy bankrupt.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
I have shown over and over again how Obama has nothing to do with the price of gas rising - I have posted graphs and numbers and reasoning. I will make it short - the price of gas cannot rise based upon Obama's policies if we our primary export is now.... gas. Obama has nothing to do with the over all fluctuations of the price of fuel.

Now the problem is that you want "facts everyone can agree with" and that isn't going to happen so long as you don't see the facts as.... facts and adhere to a viewpoint first and facts second, which is exactly what you are doing when you clam that this president has something to do with gas prices.

oh, so now, because Obama took a nearly collapsed economy and tried to at least level things, our economy is screwed right? Let's take a little look at who is "screwing" the economy yet again. Your brethren are making a hard line stand over rasing taxes on the wealthy or we go over that physcal cliff that they thenmselves agreed to - with a bipartisan committee that they helped create. Now because they have made some assinine Nordquist pledge to never raise taxes and they are sticking to it (even though they can't seem to stick to any other pledge), then we are going to go back into the dumpster - and they will be rooting around to find some way to blame Obama. It won't work, just as this election was a disaster for them. Republicans have proven over and over again that they care not one whit for this country and they are likely to do it again, just before their demise.

I doubt you are willing to change your mind because I have already given you figures on gas and posted them several times, and it seems you haven't paid any attention to them.


And that, sir, is was my original point.

Conservativism, in it's current state is a dead horse, there is no country on earth that practices it to their advantage, we have 30 years going on 40 of proof that their concepts and ideology doesn't work and we are stuck with the consequences of their attempts. Yet all they have to offer us by way of explaination is that we havn't acted conservative enough.


Time to get off that track or find another train Althor - your ideology is officialy bankrupt.
You really are blind. Funny how when Bush was president everything was his fault, regardless of a Dem held Congress. And it is still Bush's fault when Obama had 2 years of super majority.
If you still refuse to see the mess the economy is in, we are at an empasse. Have fun with your delusions.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
You really are blind. Funny how when Bush was president everything was his fault, regardless of a Dem held Congress. And it is still Bush's fault when Obama had 2 years of super majority.
If you still refuse to see the mess the economy is in, we are at an empasse. Have fun with your delusions.

I'm blind. Is all you have. I have looked at things long and hard, Shall we talk about who's fault our two wars were? Hmm? or are you going to point to the congress and say "yeah but they wanted them too" even when you know that congress was lied to as badly as we were. And that supre majority you are gasping about? didn't happen, check out the number of filibusters by the right - Record number btw. And lest you forget, your side made a pledge to stop Obama, to make him a one term president and obstruct him in every way possible - which seems to be the way things worked. And yes, the Bush tax cuts, a trillion dollars in war costs and a hideous change in medicare all went a very long way to putting us in the state we are in, but wait, then there was his deregulation - oh I know where you are going - sure, it was all CRA, blame the poor people right Althor? and you call me blind?

I see the mess the economy is in, but tell me bro, how you doin? I'm doing pretty damn well and I would guess you are as well, oh you moan at the fact that you don't have more but you make your morgage payments and your dinner is on the table every evening but you peer out your window thinking and call for rain.

As I said, I have posted all of this before - did you miss it? ALL of it?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Oh, and Althor, you didn't address my point there - the one you will see when you believe, or.... believe when you see. Our primary export is gasoline, so... kindly explain to me how Obama's policies made gas prices jump - (except for now mind you when at least in my state they have fallen some 70 cents in the last three weeks).


You claim to have the low down, tell me how Obama is performing this magic.


And why.

gotta love that why part. It MUST be because Obama hates this country and hates all the people in it, right?
 

althor

Well-Known Member
Oh, and Althor, you didn't address my point there - the one you will see when you believe, or.... believe when you see. Our primary export is gasoline, so... kindly explain to me how Obama's policies made gas prices jump - (except for now mind you when at least in my state they have fallen some 70 cents in the last three weeks).


You claim to have the low down, tell me how Obama is performing this magic.


And why.

gotta love that why part. It MUST be because Obama hates this country and hates all the people in it, right?
#1 reason gas prices are the way they are is our conflicts in the middle east.
We need to get square with Iran and quit trying to dictate to another country what they can or cannot do, or not addressing it at all.
Get Iran straight, and then oil prices will start dropping in effect so will our gas prices.
Why are we screwing around in Libya? Why are we involved with Syria? Let them work out their own differences. Get the hell out of Afghanistan.
Then throw in, stop blocking the pipe-line. Yes I know its only a few cents per gallon, but a few cents adds up, especially to those like me who drives a truck loaded with tools necessary for work. Gas has become one of my major bills. With the economy like it is, I am doing good to keep work going. Raising prices to compensate for extra gas is not an option.
Increasing drilling is another prospect that can decrease oil prices that reflect in another penny or two at the pump. You cant overlook penny here and penny there. That is a big problem with our government in general (by the way, I am not a republican, I dont like much at all about our current government in general, all politicians are the same). We waste dollars here and there in every possible way. Then people want to point out, well if you make cuts there you are only saving a few dollars. Well, no shit, thats exactly what we need to do, trim every dollar we can trim and then it adds up to one whopping ass pile of dollars.
 

Trolling

New Member
It is funny how the gas prices have steadily dropped significantly since the election, just an observation.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
Oh, and Althor, you didn't address my point there - the one you will see when you believe, or.... believe when you see. Our primary export is gasoline, so... kindly explain to me how Obama's policies made gas prices jump - (except for now mind you when at least in my state they have fallen some 70 cents in the last three weeks).


You claim to have the low down, tell me how Obama is performing this magic.


And why.

gotta love that why part. It MUST be because Obama hates this country and hates all the people in it, right?
The why? That is the easy part. By forcing people to use less gas, he hopes alternate energy will become used more.

I can agree with it. Who the hell doesnt want green energy? Cheap, clean, green energy is a fucking dream for everyone. Unfortunately, no one has yet to show a viable product. Until then, we have to use what we have, dirty, nasty energy.

Look, you can twist the conversation any way you like. Obama addressed this in 2008 and he never said he did not want gas prices to go up, he only said he would have liked it to be more gradual. It was a shock to the American pocketbook which was bad.
He was absolutely right. We were not prepared for gas prices that high. We still arent.

I agree with several other people as one poster pointed out.
You dont perpetually pay for people to "work" on finding green energy. That takes away the motive to actually find it. If you are giving my company 500 million bucks to work on green energy, hell I can spend the next 50 years living on your 500million before I even consider getting serious.
Offer a grand prize... Show us a viable, usable, green energy and we present you a check for ....... amount.

There is no doubt at all that Obama's policies have caused ENERGY prices to go up. Of course you can blame the democrat led house who blocked his bill that would have put a cap on raising energy prices on the consumers. His policies caused energy prices to go higher, his bill to help balance it was denied.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
It is funny how the gas prices have steadily dropped significantly since the election, just an observation.
Gas prices were dropping before the election. Oil was dropping. Oil will be going back up real soon and gas prices will reflect it. Takes a little time for the oil drop to show on the gas pump.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
"State legislators in Rhode Island and Maine will announce bills tomorrow to legalize recreational marijuana, a spokesperson for the Marijuana Policy Project announced today."

"MPP says that "similar proposals will be submitted in at least two other states — Vermont and Massachusetts." A ballot iniative legalizing medical marijuana passed in Massachusetts last week with more than 60 percent of the vote. Maine voters voted to expand the state's 1999 medical marijuana law in 2009 to include dispensaries. The Rhode Island legislature passed medical marijuana legislation earlier this year."

http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/14/state-legislators-in-rhode-island-and-ma#comments
it's like salt in my wound. i'm really happy to see this, yet very bitter about my situation.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
#1 reason gas prices are the way they are is our conflicts in the middle east.
We need to get square with Iran and quit trying to dictate to another country what they can or cannot do, or not addressing it at all.
Get Iran straight, and then oil prices will start dropping in effect so will our gas prices.
Why are we screwing around in Libya? Why are we involved with Syria? Let them work out their own differences. Get the hell out of Afghanistan.
Then throw in, stop blocking the pipe-line. Yes I know its only a few cents per gallon, but a few cents adds up, especially to those like me who drives a truck loaded with tools necessary for work. Gas has become one of my major bills. With the economy like it is, I am doing good to keep work going. Raising prices to compensate for extra gas is not an option.
Increasing drilling is another prospect that can decrease oil prices that reflect in another penny or two at the pump. You cant overlook penny here and penny there. That is a big problem with our government in general (by the way, I am not a republican, I dont like much at all about our current government in general, all politicians are the same). We waste dollars here and there in every possible way. Then people want to point out, well if you make cuts there you are only saving a few dollars. Well, no shit, thats exactly what we need to do, trim every dollar we can trim and then it adds up to one whopping ass pile of dollars.

We import about 10 percent of our oil from the unstable regions of the middle east. Beyond that, those instabilities were need I remind you, a product of Bush's policies on tjhe region. Add to that the fact that Romney was willing to make the place even more unstable, so your assertion that Obama has caused prices to rise because of his foreign policy don't work and if they did, the other guy would have forced them to rise much more if your statement was accurate.

We were surprised by the following table from the E.I.A. which shows the U.S. imports only about 25 percent of its crude oil from the Middle East and just 10 percent when Saudi Arabia is excluded. It is our sense that Saudi is much more politically stable than oil traders believe. This is not to say the U.S. won’t have to pay the world market price if supply is disrupted from Libya or elsewhere, however. (click here if table is not observable).


10 percent is about it.

Therefore,it really doesn't matter what Iran does or doesn't do.


The Pipeline? you believe all of the right's imagination. The pipeline is primarily for bringing Canadian crude to our refineries on the gulf so that we can EXPORT more gasoline, not much of that stuff will ever see the inside of our gas tanks.

Gas prices might go up, not down: Right now, a lot of oil being produced in Canada and North Dakota has trouble reaching the refineries and terminals on the Gulf. Since that supply can't be sold abroad, it reduces the competition for it to Midwest refineries that can pay lower prices to get it.
Giving the Canadian oil access to the Gulf means the glut in the Midwest goes away, making it more expensive for the region.


"The price that refineries on the coasts have been paying is around $120 a barrel for months, while you had $75 to $80 a barrel crude available in the Rockies and Midwest," said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service.
Much of the difference in gas prices between states is due to gas taxes, not cost. But Kloza said that the center of the country might have benefited by up to 25 cents a gallon in what they were paying for gas because of the glut of oil around Cushing.
The full pipeline would increase the capacity of oil flowing from Canada's oil sands into the broader global market by up to 700,000 barrels a day, according to advocates. But adding even the 700,000 barrels to more than 90 million barrels worldwide will have limited long-term impact on prices,


Now yet again you parrot the same old refrain - drill more. You don't manage to address the facts here - I will tell you yet again, our chief export presently is gasoline, what does that mean? it means we have what could be perceived as an excess. If the price localy (in the U.S.) were higher then we would not export it. The lower the price here and the higher the price elsewhere the more likely it is that we do export. Gasoline is a fungable resource but the amount of increase of our exports that it would take to lower global gas prices is still far more than we could ever hope to produce. In short, drilling for more has nothing to do with anything, nor is Obama keeping oil companies from drilling, in fact they retain thousands of acres of leases where they have not even explored.

In short, you claim that Obama has caused the price of gas to go up and yet you cannot give us any explaination for this fantasy except falacy. This is along the same lines as when you claimed that Obama was causing you to either lay people off or not hire any new people. When I asked you for specfics we got to the actual reason, that you were not sure of what would happen next in the economy and it wasn't Obama's fault at all. This seems to be the same.


Obama has little or nothing to do with the price of fuel in the United States currently.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
The why? That is the easy part. By forcing people to use less gas, he hopes alternate energy will become used more.

I can agree with it. Who the hell doesnt want green energy? Cheap, clean, green energy is a fucking dream for everyone. Unfortunately, no one has yet to show a viable product. Until then, we have to use what we have, dirty, nasty energy.

Look, you can twist the conversation any way you like. Obama addressed this in 2008 and he never said he did not want gas prices to go up, he only said he would have liked it to be more gradual. It was a shock to the American pocketbook which was bad.
He was absolutely right. We were not prepared for gas prices that high. We still arent.

I agree with several other people as one poster pointed out.
You dont perpetually pay for people to "work" on finding green energy. That takes away the motive to actually find it. If you are giving my company 500 million bucks to work on green energy, hell I can spend the next 50 years living on your 500million before I even consider getting serious.
Offer a grand prize... Show us a viable, usable, green energy and we present you a check for ....... amount.

There is no doubt at all that Obama's policies have caused ENERGY prices to go up. Of course you can blame the democrat led house who blocked his bill that would have put a cap on raising energy prices on the consumers. His policies caused energy prices to go higher, his bill to help balance it was denied.

Yet again we see someone on the right not getting a real picture, what is amazing to me is that it is the right that claims to understand the free market and a free market economy but they still pin their hopes on that same free economy.

Obama is not "forcing" anyone to use less gas because as we have established, he is not forcing the rise in prices that you claim.

No one ever said that green energy would be cheap - it won't, in fact it may actually reflect the true cost of energy in this universe as we have never, ever, for even a second actually paid the true cost of fossil fuels - but we will.

Now this is the real story. Fossil fuels prices fluctuate, wildly, this is why it is being discussed and this is why people like you blame the president when you have to dig deeper into your wallet at the pump. So long as the price of fossil fuels fluctuate, you will not, in a truely free market, get an alternative until there is a massive economic collapse.

Got it? Considering, let us say that this mythical green gas turns a profit at 6 dollars a gallon, no one will invest in it until gasoline reaches over 6 dollars a gallon. But the costs fluctuate, so gas prices will bound from 3 to 5 to 7 and only during those periods when it is at 78 will that new magic green gas turn a profit. Now who would invest in something like that? Nobody. Eventually fossil fuel prices will stay permanently at above 6 bucks, but by then the economy has taken a huge hit, there is no infrastructure in place for this mythical green gas, no cars to burn it because who would manufacture such a thing if the drivers can find no fuel? In short, what you are looking for is a sweeping of the table, a crash, before some new energy swings into action taking 5 or 10 years, all the while we are laboring under high fuel prices. In a free market, this is the only way it will work.


But wait, we have government, and government can and should invest in alternatives NOW, when we don't need them, when we still have time to even find such alternatives. That is a part of the whole, the second part of course is to artificialy raise the cost of fossil fuels in order to promote the production and rollout of this new green source.

No no, you righties say, we have to let the market work, we can't let government get involved, we can't have them picking winners, we have to suffer the 10 year economic collapse of our country along with the major upset we all will go through because we can't have that socialism, interference kind of crap.

There is every "doubt" that Obama's polices have done nothing to the price of gas. Energy? now I might have to agree with you. The point however is your why is wrong as well, Obama wants us to switch energy sources and raising prices is a way to do that, but only if the prices are raised as a result of taxation, controled taxation that creates revenue that should be funneled to alternative energy concerns.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
They all had to sign on they have the right to sign out.

Let us remember the man who made our lives so miserable Harry J. Anslinger



Also
Lawmakers in 4 States to Push for Marijuana Legalization as Cannabis Reform Gains Momentum


http://mmjbusinessdaily.com/2012/11/14/lawmakers-in-4-states-to-push-for-marijuana-legalization-as-cannabis-reform-gains-momentum/

In dating terms we are on First Base friends! Lets get to Third base!


BTW ANY President has to uphold the laws as they are. It's that simple. Let's change the laws.
 
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