Any info on suboxone clinics? Good or Bad

[gladstoned]

I've been through addiction, and know many others who have/are also going through it. The marquette dispensary closed for awhile and this suboxone clinic was what they had.
I had heard little about it, so made this thread to find out.
I do not know anyone up here that has tried it.
I've probably been to a dozen rehabs, and couldn't possibly guess how many times I have been arrested.
Wasn't anything in this world keeping me clean till I wanted and needed to be clean.
I wish everyone out there that is struggling the very best of luck, and I am praying for them.
It is no way to live.

 

[kentuckyboy]

I've been on Methadone for a few years now. I pay $110 a week to dose. It sucks, and I agree that you will eventually feel like you have traded one drug for another. Although I was shooting up herion everyday, so I know that Methadone is the better choice for me. I was going to do the Suboxone, but the doctor said that people who do as much heroin as me don't have much luck taking suboxone. They wanted me to start out on Methadone and switch to Suboxone somewhere down the road. Suboxone actually costs more money at the clinic that I go to. Well it depends on what your dosage is, because every pill costs a bit more. There are other suboxone clinics or doctors specializing in opiate dependence that are much cheaper, but you have to have medical insurance which I do not have. As you all can tell I am conflicted on my opinion on the matter. All I can say is, if you are addicted and can get off of opiates without taking Suboxone or Methadone, do it! For some people, that just isn't going to be an option. For those who need Methadone or Suboxone, as long as you work the program, it can and will help you get back to a healthy lifestyle. You have to want to change though.

 

[gladstoned]

Fuck, sounds very profitable.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Guys, go back and read what I wrote. Weaning off the narcs can be quick, but the problem is the narcotic receptors are sick. It takes 4-6 months to let them get back to normal, not to mention the counseling portion of the treatment. One poster was put on two a day (more than I generally use, even with heavy users) but tried to go to 1/2 a day right away. The way I dose it is to start with a standard dose and look at the effect. No withdrawal, decrease until you have it then back off a hair so you don't, and leave it there for a month to get used to it. Then SMALL 25% decreases, deal with a day or three of feeling like you are coming down with the flu, and coast for a month. Then do it again until you are off completely. But ALWAYS be moving down. Suboxone dependency, from being on the same dose for months and months, is just as hard as any other narc. You are on suboxone to get off suboxone. If you want to substitute one addiction for another, methadone is far cheaper. I want you off the suboxone so I can move on to the next patients. We are limited in the number of patients we have under treatment, and the need is too great to keep one coasting forever. Get better and let me fix the next one.

Dr. Bob

 

[HomeLessBeans]

Is this something that would work for drugs other than opiates?ie. Meth, bathsalts??

 

[st0wandgrow]

I've been on Methadone for a few years now. I pay $110 a week to dose. It sucks, and I agree that you will eventually feel like you have traded one drug for another. Although I was shooting up herion everyday, so I know that Methadone is the better choice for me. I was going to do the Suboxone, but the doctor said that people who do as much heroin as me don't have much luck taking suboxone. They wanted me to start out on Methadone and switch to Suboxone somewhere down the road. Suboxone actually costs more money at the clinic that I go to. Well it depends on what your dosage is, because every pill costs a bit more. There are other suboxone clinics or doctors specializing in opiate dependence that are much cheaper, but you have to have medical insurance which I do not have. As you all can tell I am conflicted on my opinion on the matter. All I can say is, if you are addicted and can get off of opiates without taking Suboxone or Methadone, do it! For some people, that just isn't going to be an option. For those who need Methadone or Suboxone, as long as you work the program, it can and will help you get back to a healthy lifestyle. You have to want to change though.

That sucks bro. I feel for you. I think no matter how you slice it, you have to pay the piper at some point. you WILL detox, and go through withdrawal no matter what direction you take, so you just have to be prepared to feel like ass for a while and try to get it behind you. In my experience you will go through a week or more of being sick .... vomiting, not eating, general lethargy, no ambition, etc. That's the easy part. You then have to find a way to get your ass out of bed every day and go on with your life even though you feel like a zombie. This lasted for a bout 6 months for me. It's tough to find joy in anything, or find the motivation to do anything. I was scared for a while that my brain chemistry was fucked up to the point that I would never again experience the small pleasures in life that I used to. The good news is that the fog eventually lifts. I was preparing myself for the worst. I thought I was going to have to deal with a new "normal" for the rest of my life, but I'm fine now, and very grateful that I got my shit together and didn't end up a statistic. Keep your head up, and keep reminding yourself that you will be yourself again .... but you gotta kick the pills all together to get there.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Guys, go back and read what I wrote. Weaning off the narcs can be quick, but the problem is the narcotic receptors are sick. It takes 4-6 months to let them get back to normal, not to mention the counseling portion of the treatment. One poster was put on two a day (more than I generally use, even with heavy users) but tried to go to 1/2 a day right away. The way I dose it is to start with a standard dose and look at the effect. No withdrawal, decrease until you have it then back off a hair so you don't, and leave it there for a month to get used to it. Then SMALL 25% decreases, deal with a day or three of feeling like you are coming down with the flu, and coast for a month. Then do it again until you are off completely. But ALWAYS be moving down. Suboxone dependency, from being on the same dose for months and months, is just as hard as any other narc. You are on suboxone to get off suboxone. If you want to substitute one addiction for another, methadone is far cheaper. I want you off the suboxone so I can move on to the next patients. We are limited in the number of patients we have under treatment, and the need is too great to keep one coasting forever. Get better and let me fix the next one. Dr. Bob

Doc, question for you: I lost some sensation in my lower extremities, mostly my ankles/feet. I was told by my doctor that this was probably due to the pills. Is this possible in your experience, or was he just blowing smoke up my ass? He seemed like a bit of a quack.

 

[racerboy71]

Doc, question for you: I lost some sensation in my lower extremities, mostly my ankles/feet. I was told by my doctor that this was probably due to the pills. Is this possible in your experience, or was he just blowing smoke up my ass? He seemed like a bit of a quack.

i'd love to know the answer to this as well.. been on methadone for 11 years now, only at 15mg's a day as i'm trying to get off, from my highest of 50 mg's a day..
but yah, i can hardly fucking walk anymore, i've got such pain in my knees it's crazy imo.. never had a problem with them, then a few years ago i got off a 9 hour european flight and could hardly walk, and they've only gotten worse since..

and damn, $110 a week, i only pay $55, which i think is bad enough..

 

[racerboy71]

and anyone who knocks methadone, i'd like to have a chat with them.. yes, you're pretty much trading one drug for another, but i've yet to steal anything because i needed my next fix of done..
it's completely different ime, and yes, i'm glad i made the decision to go on maintenance as i surely would either be in prison or dead if i hadn't..

 

[Dr. Bob]

The peripheral neuropathy you are discussing (lack of sensation in your feet) can be caused by many things. Diabetes and nutritional causes are most common. I am not aware of methadone specifically causing it. I did a little research and don't see it as causing neuropathy, but it is used to treat it.

There is a place for replacement therapy, I just prefer suboxone.

Hope that helps.

Dr. Bob

 

[Huel Perkins]

I only read the first two pages of this thread and decided to skip ahead to add my $0.02. I think suboxone is pure evil. I've known a bunch of opiate junkies in my life but their problems seemed petty compared to the people i've known that were hooked on suboxone.

I know there are plenty of people that have successfully used suboxone to defeat their opiate addiction, and not everyone abuses it. Just from my standpoint in life I've seen more people fall victim to suboxone than be saved by it.

I've tried just about every drug under the sun in my day, including all types of opiates and suboxone. Let me tell you, suboxone in the hands of someone who is not an opiate abuser, its a seriously powerful drug. I have personally taken opiate pain pills many times in my life, luckily i never liked them enough to get addicted. I took suboxone one time in my entire life and it was so much more powerful than i expected, it caused me to vomit for the rest of the night and i could fell the effects of it the entire next day well beyond 24 hours later.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I only read the first two pages of this thread and decided to skip ahead to add my $0.02. I think suboxone is pure evil. I've known a bunch of opiate junkies in my life but their problems seemed petty compared to the people i've known that were hooked on suboxone.

I know there are plenty of people that have successfully used suboxone to defeat their opiate addiction, and not everyone abuses it. Just from my standpoint in life I've seen more people fall victim to suboxone than be saved by it.

I've tried just about every drug under the sun in my day, including all types of opiates and suboxone. Let me tell you, suboxone in the hands of someone who is not an opiate abuser, its a seriously powerful drug. I have personally taken opiate pain pills many times in my life, luckily i never liked them enough to get addicted. I took suboxone one time in my entire life and it was so much more powerful than i expected, it caused me to vomit for the rest of the night and i could fell the effects of it the entire next day well beyond 24 hours later.

Perhaps had you read the thread rather than skipped it in a rush to put your negative opinion of suboxone out you would see your concern was addressed. It is not always a good idea to talk in absolutes without having the facts. I'd hate to see a patient that could have benefited from suboxone put off the idea based on one person's poor experience being expanded to a generality about a treatment option.

I believe if you look back at what was said, you will see pretty clearly your friends that became addicted did not follow the type of program I outlined. There is a second school of thought that says you go on suboxone long term, like methadone. I don't subscribe to that idea for the very reasons you described.

Dr. Bob

PS, had whoever given you the suboxone explained about the narcan in it, as well as the need to be in withdrawal prior to taking the dose, you might not have gone into sudden withdrawal resulting in vomiting and all other side effects of withdrawal you experienced. That was the cause of your symptoms, not the med itself. Make sure you put blame where it belongs, not simply with the med because they occurred together.

 

[racerboy71]

Perhaps had you read the thread rather than skipped it in a rush to put your negative opinion of suboxone out you would see your concern was addressed. It is not always a good idea to talk in absolutes without having the facts. I'd hate to see a patient that could have benefited from suboxone put off the idea based on one person's poor experience being expanded to a generality about a treatment option.

I believe if you look back at what was said, you will see pretty clearly your friends that became addicted did not follow the type of program I outlined. There is a second school of thought that says you go on suboxone long term, like methadone. I don't subscribe to that idea for the very reasons you described.

Dr. Bob

PS, had whoever given you the suboxone explained about the narcan in it, as well as the need to be in withdrawal prior to taking the dose, you might not have gone into sudden withdrawal resulting in vomiting and all other side effects of withdrawal you experience. That was the cause of your symptoms, not the med itself.

hey dr bob, is there any sort of high associated with taking sub's?? i've never taken them myself, although i was at a high of 50mg's per day of methadone.. i can say that with methadone, there is no high to it, which is why i could never understand someone who would be addicted to methadone, makes no sense to me is all, other than the withdrawal aspect obviously..
i know that if you take subs within x amount of hours after opiate use, you will get sick, but i was never clear about the high aspect associated with subs..
thank you kindly..

 

[Dr. Bob]

Is this something that would work for drugs other than opiates?ie. Meth, bathsalts??

It is specific to narcotics. The counselling might be of help for any substance though.

Dr. Bob

 

[st0wandgrow]

hey dr bob, is there any sort of high associated with taking sub's?? i've never taken them myself, although i was at a high of 50mg's per day of methadone.. i can say that with methadone, there is no high to it, which is why i could never understand someone who would be addicted to methadone, makes no sense to me is all, other than the withdrawal aspect obviously..
i know that if you take subs within x amount of hours after opiate use, you will get sick, but i was never clear about the high aspect associated with subs..
thank you kindly..

Yes there is a high. Nothing as substantial as an opiate high from an oxy, but there is certainly a high .... from my experience.

 

[st0wandgrow]

^Dr St0w^

 

[Dr. Bob]

hey dr bob, is there any sort of high associated with taking sub's?? i've never taken them myself, although i was at a high of 50mg's per day of methadone.. i can say that with methadone, there is no high to it, which is why i could never understand someone who would be addicted to methadone, makes no sense to me is all, other than the withdrawal aspect obviously..
i know that if you take subs within x amount of hours after opiate use, you will get sick, but i was never clear about the high aspect associated with subs..
thank you kindly..

Good question and as you can see, there is a reason for the vomiting the previous comments referred to. Yes there can be some MILD euphoria associated with Subs, but nothing like the full mu receptor effects of methadone and other narcs. I refer to the receptors as light sockets. You can plug a 100 watt bulb (methadone, heroin, morphine, etc) and get the full effect, or you plug in a 15 watt bulb in (suboxone) and get very little glow. The point is that when the body senses the receptors are 'full' there is no withdrawal, euphoria or not. Suboxone fills the receptors.

Dr. Bob

 

[Huel Perkins]

Perhaps had you read the thread rather than skipped it in a rush to put your negative opinion of suboxone out you would see your concern was addressed. It is not always a good idea to talk in absolutes without having the facts. I'd hate to see a patient that could have benefited from suboxone put off the idea based on one person's poor experience being expanded to a generality about a treatment option.

I believe if you look back at what was said, you will see pretty clearly your friends that became addicted did not follow the type of program I outlined. There is a second school of thought that says you go on suboxone long term, like methadone. I don't subscribe to that idea for the very reasons you described.

Dr. Bob

PS, had whoever given you the suboxone explained about the narcan in it, as well as the need to be in withdrawal prior to taking the dose, you might not have gone into sudden withdrawal resulting in vomiting and all other side effects of withdrawal you experienced. That was the cause of your symptoms, not the med itself. Make sure you put blame where it belongs, not simply with the med because they occurred together.

I read the entire thread after i posted, felt no need to change my post. It actually looks more like you didn't read my post before you replied to it lol. I acknowledged that used properly it helps a lot of people, just like when opiates are used properly they are great for relieving temporary pain.

Because you seemed to completely miss my point, i dislike suboxone due to its effects when its misused and abused. In my own personal experience it seems to be worse than than the drugs it was intended to treat people for when misused.

 

[gladstoned]

I appreciated your input Huel. You have taken it before, and have experience with it. That's what I was asking, thank you.

 

[Huel Perkins]

hey dr bob, is there any sort of high associated with taking sub's?? i've never taken them myself, although i was at a high of 50mg's per day of methadone.. i can say that with methadone, there is no high to it, which is why i could never understand someone who would be addicted to methadone, makes no sense to me is all, other than the withdrawal aspect obviously..
i know that if you take subs within x amount of hours after opiate use, you will get sick, but i was never clear about the high aspect associated with subs..
thank you kindly..

The one time i took suboxone i was so fucked up i could not function. I took it as a recreational drug, not to treat an addiction.