New guy here...Some questions for everybody.

Krondizzel

Krondizzel

New Member
Derdy said:
Absolutely. My friend is a complete idiot when it comes to these types of things, as big of a noob as it gets, haha. I'm sure he really appreciates your help.

Another question, is bottled water at room temp. good for feeding? And also, he purchased Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil, along with Neem oil and the sticky white fly traps. Good move right?

He is also under the impression that he needs a fan blowing on the plant to keep the main stem strong and to keep the waste moving or something...?
Click to expand...
1. Everyone is new at some point in time. I have no problem answering questions. In fact, something about learning is, you'll learn more when you teach as well. If I don't have the answers to your questions, well, I want to know the answer too. So eventually, I'll find the answer for ya. PM me if you have questions, it'll keep the clutter off of your post. If you want to call bs on me when I say something, bring it up on the board! As a community, you'll find an answer to your questions.

2. bottled water is ok. since you guys seem to be new, have you done your homework on PPM and PH for the watering process? This will help you A LOT. I run hydro, but everyone I know in dirt loves the fox farm ocean forest. If I were in soil, that would be what I would choose simply because I see that it works quite nicely.

3. A fan blowing directly on the plant isn't such a good thing. Oscillating is usually preferred. What your doing is blowing enough air on them to make them do a little wiggling. If you have leaves flying or bending over backwards, you have waaaay too much. The wiggling, jiggling action will help strengthen the plant and promote growth. It will beef itself up to withstand the elements basically. The waste he refers to, I'm guessing is the stale air and oxygen. Plants breathe in co2 and exhale o2. So getting new air into the area is a good thing. only about 2% of the air is co2, so if you have a stale environment, the co2 can deplete quite rapidly. So consider airflow in your design. Growing in your kitchen fridge would be a bad idea if you had no way to get air in/out of it if that makes sense. This is why people will run co2. The plants actually want more of it, it's just limited by natures air.
 
Krondizzel

Krondizzel

New Member
BustinScales510 said:
Ocean Forest is good, it can be a little strong sometimes for small plants but once the funky shit breaks down and the plants have a root system its good,just let it dry it a little in between waterings (dont keep it soggy). I dont know what you mean by "sterilize" the soil, but dont do it..the whole purpose of growing in dirt is that its biologically active, right? If you want a sterile growing medium use coco or rockwool instead.
Click to expand...
or hydroton, but yes, biologically active means non-sterile. Thanks for clearing that up. Wasn't sure how to word that one.
 
D

Derdy

Member
He doesn't know anything about PPM and measuring PH. Any help would be greatly appreciated. And thank you very much krondizzel, you've been very helpful, after this post I will PM you if my friend has anymore questions..

one more thing...Carbon filter..? Is that somethng he should get?
 
D

Derdy

Member
Does anybody know anything about PPM an PH watering process? and if a carbon filter would be needed?
 
Krondizzel

Krondizzel

New Member
Carbon filter is what you use to filter the smells out of the air. If you think smell will be a problem, yes, I HIGHLY recommend them.

PPM is measured two ways. EC and TDS. EC is electrical conductivity and TDS stands for total dissolved solids. Basically the stuff in the water can be measured by differences in electrical current. (at least I'm fairly certain) Anyhoo, it seems like the two are the same, only two different ways of measuring. Sorta like standard and metric. Nevertheless, I use a TDS pen. When you measure your tap water, there will be a base number. Mine is 140PPM out of the tap. So when I want to make a "400 batch". The TDS pen will read 540PPM. 400 nutes + 140 base = 540ppm. Get you a TDS Pen. I paid 30$ for mine and it seems to be ok for now. I got the cheap kind but the next one I will buy will be nicer. It works just fine though. The TDS number is important, because plants simply cannot handle too many nutrients. When they are young, I shoot for about 100ppm. At about a month of veg, I'm at 400-500. They are bigger by then and can handle more, and require more. When they grow, they eat. When they are small, they eat small. If you add too much, you'll nutrient fry your shit. Take my word for it, less is more. Start off very light on the nutrients until you gain experience.

Now, with PH, PH is a different story. If your PH is NOT correct, your plants will not be able to absorb nutrients, even if they are there. PH tests come in many different forms, drops, strips, pens, meters, etc. I tried drops and strips and learned in time that I needed to have at least bare minimum, a pen. Trying to eyeball stuff doesn't work. My eyeball was 6.4 when I aimed for 6. The pen doesn't argue. Make sure that your pen is calibrated as sometimes from the factory, they are out of calibration. calibration solution is about 50 cents per packet. My hanna pen calibrates for 7 and 4. You'll learn about that more too.

I will post some information and some pictures that will help you.
 
Krondizzel

Krondizzel

New Member
View attachment 2427022View attachment 2427023View attachment 2427024View attachment 2427025

[FONT=&quot]Action Mode, Deficiency and Toxicity Symptoms of the 17 Essential Nutrients.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MACRO NUTRIENTS[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nutrient[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Action Mode[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Deficiency[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Excess[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Comments[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nitrogen (N)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as NO3-, NH4+; responsible for rapid foliage growth and green color; easily leaches from soil, especially NO3-; mobile in plant, moving to new growth[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Reduced growth, light green to yellow foliage (chlorosis); reds and purples may intensify with some plants; reduced lateral breaks; symptoms appear first on older growth[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Succulent growth, leaves are dark green, thick and brittle; poor fruit set; excess ammonia can induce calcium deficiency[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]The best NH4+/NO3- ratio is 1/1; high NH4+ under low light can cause leaf curl; uptake inhibited by high P levels; indoors, best N/K ratio is 1/1 unless light is extremely high; in soils with high C/N ratio more N should be supplied.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phosphorus (P)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Promotes root formation and growth; affects quality of seed, fruit and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]flower production[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; increased disease resistance; does not leach from soil readily; mobile in plant, moving to new growth[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Reduced growth; leaves dark green; purple or red color in older leaves, especially on the underside of the leaf along the veins; leaf shape may be distorted; thin stems; limited root growth[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Shows up as micronutrient deficiency of Zn, Fe, or Co[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Rapidly "fixed" on soil particles; when applied under acid conditions, fixed with Fe, Mn and Al; under alkaline conditions fixed with Ca; high P interferes with micronutrient and N absorption; used in relatively small amounts when compared to N and K; availability is lowest in cold soils.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Potassium (K)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Helps plants overcome drought stress; improves winter hardiness; increased disease resistance; improves the rigidity of stalks; leaches from soil; mobile in plant[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Reduced growth; shortened internodes; margins of older leaves become chlorotic and burn; necrotic (dead) spots on older leaves; reduction of lateral breaks and tendency to wilt readily; poorly developed root systems; weak stalks[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Causes N deficiency in plant and may affect the uptake of other positive ions such as Mg and Ca[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]High N/low K favors vegetative growth; low N/high K promotes reproductive growth (flower, fruit); calcium excess impedes uptake of potassium[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Magnesium (Mg)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Mg++; leaches from sandy soil; mobile in plant[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Reduction in growth; yellowish, bronze, or reddish color of older leaves, while veins remains green; leaf margins may curl downward or upward with a puckering effect[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Interferes with Ca uptake; small necrotic spots in older leaves; smaller veins in older leaves may turn brown; in advanced stage, young leaves may be spotted[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Mg is commonly deficient in foliage plants because it is leached and not replaced; epsom salts at a rate of 1 teaspoon per gallon may be used two times a year; Mg can be absorbed by leaves if sprayed in a weak solution; dolomitic limestone can be applied in outdoor situations to rectify a deficiency[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Calcium (Ca)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Ca++; moderately leachable; limited mobility in plant; essential for growth of shoot and root tips; reduces the toxicity of aluminum and manganese[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Inhibition of bud growth; roots can turn black and rot; young leaves are scalloped and abnormally green; leaf tips may stick together; cupping of maturing leaves; blossom end rot of many fruits, pits on root vegetables; stem structure is weak; premature shedding of fruit and buds[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Interferes with Mg absorption; high Ca usually causes high pH which then precipitates many of the micronutrient so they become unavailable to the plant[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Ca is rarely deficient if the correct pH is maintained; too much or too little water, can affect Ca relationships within the plant causing deficiency in the location where Ca was needed at the time of stress[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sulfur (S)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as SO4-; leachable; not mobile; contributes to odor and taste of some vegetables[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Rarely deficient; general yellowing of the young leaves then the entire plant; veins lighter in color than adjoining interveinal area; roots and stems are small, hard and woody[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Sulfur excess is usually in the form of air pollution[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Sulfur excess is difficult to control but rarely a problem.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

MICRONUTRIENT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nutrient[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Mode of Action[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Deficiency[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Excess /Comments[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Iron (Fe)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Fe++, Fe+++; accumulates in the oldest leaves and is relative immobile in the phloem; necessary for the maintenance of chlorophyll[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Interveinal chlorosis primarily on young tissue, which may become white; Fe deficiency may occur even if Fe is in the soil when: soil high in Ca, poorly drained soil, soil high in Mn, high pH, high P, soil high in heavy metals (Cu, Zn), oxygen deficient soils or when nematodes attack the roots; Fe should be added in the chelate form; the type of chelate needed depends upon the soil pH; foliar fertilization will temporarily correct the deficiency; may be deficient in centipedegrass where pH and P are high[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Rare except on flooded soils[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Boron (B)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as B(OH)3-; important in enabling photosynthetic transfer; very immoble in plants[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Failure to set seed; internal breakdown of fruit or vegetable; death of apical buds, giving rise to witches broom; failure of root tip to elongate normally; young leaves become thick, leathery, and chlorotic; rust colored cracks and corking on young stems, petioles and flower stalks (e.g. heart rot of beets, stem crack of celery); breakdown occurs at the base of the youngest shoots[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Tips and edges of leaves exhibit necrotic spots coalescing into a marginal scorch (similiar to high soluable salts); oldest leaves are affected first; plants are easily damaged by excess application[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Zinc (Zn)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Zn++; enzyme activity[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Young leaves are very small, sometimes missing leaf blades; short internodes; distorted or puckered leaf margins; interveinal chlorosis[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Sever stunting, reddening; poor germination; older leaves wilt; entire leaf is affected by chlorosis, edges and main vein often retain more color; can be caused by galvanized metal.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Copper (Cu)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Cu++, Cu+; enzyme activity[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]New growth small, misshapen, wilted; may be found in some peat soils; in some species young leaves may show interveinal chlorosis while tips of older leaves remain green.[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Can occur at low pH; shows up as Fe deficiency[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Manganese (Mn)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Mn++[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Interveinal chlorosis with smallest leaves remaining green producing a checkered effect; grey or tan spots usually develop in chlorotic areas; dead spots may drop out of the leaf; poor bloom size and color; induced by excessively high pH.[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Reduction in growth, brown spotting on leaves; shows up as Fe deficiency; found under strongly acid conditions[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Molybdenum (Mo)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as MoO4-[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Interveinal chlorosis on older or midstem leaves; twisted leaves (whiptail); marginal scorching and rolling or cupping of leaves; nitrogen deficiency symptoms may develop[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Intense yellow or purple color in leaves; rarely observed[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Chlorine (Cl)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Cl -[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Wilted leaves which become bronze then chlorotic then die; club roots[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Salt injury, leaf burn, may increase succulence[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cobalt (Co)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Co++[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]This need by plants recently established; essential for Nitrogen fixation[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Little is known about its deficiency or toxicity symptoms[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nickel (Ni)[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Absorbed as Ni+[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]This need by plants recently established; essential for seed development[/FONT]
 
D

Derdy

Member
Krondizzel said:
Carbon filter is what you use to filter the smells out of the air. If you think smell will be a problem, yes, I HIGHLY recommend them.

PPM is measured two ways. EC and TDS. EC is electrical conductivity and TDS stands for total dissolved solids. Basically the stuff in the water can be measured by differences in electrical current. (at least I'm fairly certain) Anyhoo, it seems like the two are the same, only two different ways of measuring. Sorta like standard and metric. Nevertheless, I use a TDS pen. When you measure your tap water, there will be a base number. Mine is 140PPM out of the tap. So when I want to make a "400 batch". The TDS pen will read 540PPM. 400 nutes + 140 base = 540ppm. Get you a TDS Pen. I paid 30$ for mine and it seems to be ok for now. I got the cheap kind but the next one I will buy will be nicer. It works just fine though. The TDS number is important, because plants simply cannot handle too many nutrients. When they are young, I shoot for about 100ppm. At about a month of veg, I'm at 400-500. They are bigger by then and can handle more, and require more. When they grow, they eat. When they are small, they eat small. If you add too much, you'll nutrient fry your shit. Take my word for it, less is more. Start off very light on the nutrients until you gain experience.

Now, with PH, PH is a different story. If your PH is NOT correct, your plants will not be able to absorb nutrients, even if they are there. PH tests come in many different forms, drops, strips, pens, meters, etc. I tried drops and strips and learned in time that I needed to have at least bare minimum, a pen. Trying to eyeball stuff doesn't work. My eyeball was 6.4 when I aimed for 6. The pen doesn't argue. Make sure that your pen is calibrated as sometimes from the factory, they are out of calibration. calibration solution is about 50 cents per packet. My hanna pen calibrates for 7 and 4. You'll learn about that more too.

I will post some information and some pictures that will help you.
Click to expand...


Thank you very much, you have been extremely helpful. Will this pen suffice?
http://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-TDS-EZ-Auto-off-Function/dp/B002C0A7ZY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1354407256&sr=8-3&keywords=PH+pen
 
Krondizzel

Krondizzel

New Member
Well... With the PH, what your doing is metering the water you put in, and then the runoff at the bottom of the pot. If I remember right, that fox farm ocean forest, you wont have to worry about PH much at all. Stuff is pretty stable. I'll ask about that and get back to you with what they say.
 
Coho

Coho

Well-Known Member
Get some pH calibration solution 7.0 and make sure the meter is correct. The electrode has to be stored wet anyway. The good ones have a small screw driver with em to set it AND DIRECTIONS. Get some perlite and dolomite for the soil too.
 
D

Derdy

Member
Thanks guys. So in the big picture, should he purchase something to measure soil and water? or just water?
 
I

imchucky666

Well-Known Member
Derdy said:
I know you're not being a dick, the truth hurts, haha. The thing is, the warranty is 5 years long, anything happens to it, its replaced for free, bulbs and all. He thought that was a good deal. The only place he can grow is the laundry room. The dryer is electric, he was in there when it was on, and he said the only difference was it was a little warmer in there. The cellar is quite spacious.

Hopefully no problems arise from this..
Click to expand...
For me, if the temp is what is tempting 'him' to grow in the laundry, I would go for the basement, as you can't always predict how much more heat you are going to get from the lights, and it will be easier for 'him' to heat the room if it is too cold than it would be to cool the room if it builds too much heat.
 
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