How can Anarchocapitalism break monopolies?

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Actually no it doesn't, as I pointed out, It is the best example the counter argument has but its complete fail because it doesn't contradict free market or anarcho capitalist at all, it fully supports it, because:

Standard oil was in a smaller niche market with limited demand and little competition and it wouldn't of lasted, they colluded with others to make it happen (including railroads) (ref: point G in my initial response). Additionally, they never took advantage of the consumers or price gouged.

Its almost like you didn't read my responses on this first page. You don't even want to try to understand the philosophy so stop pretending like your being open minded, your just being passive aggressive.

I would go as far as to say that nearly every modern Monopoly that is actually damaging to the consumer has historically been "LEGAL" under a government. (put that in your bong and smoke it)
now we are making progress.

It is not a small niche, its oil. OIL

The difference between oil and iPhones is huge.

Are you ready? The world's resources are almost completely monopolized. Rare earths, oil, food. Try obviating demand, go with no lights and starve. What is not yet under the control of our owners is in their cross hairs. Even water.

Totally different from a product with niche demand like iPhones. You clearly support the private ownership of these resources, even want the owners of said resources to control private armies, as if buying elections wasn't bad enough.

It has nothing to do with price gouging so quit with that. They want to own the resources.

Put that in your bong and smoke it.
 

deprave

New Member
now we are making progress.

It is not a small niche, its oil. OIL

The difference between oil and iPhones is huge.

Are you ready? The world's resources are almost completely monopolized. Rare earths, oil, food. Try obviating demand, go with no lights and starve. What is not yet under the control of our owners is in their cross hairs. Even water.

Totally different from a product with niche demand like iPhones. You clearly support the private ownership of these resources, even want the owners of said resources to control private armies, as if buying elections wasn't bad enough.

It has nothing to do with price gouging so quit with that. They want to own the resources.

Put that in your bong and smoke it.
Yes it was small and niche, their main product was kerosene, for Lamps..In rural areas....A luxury to those who didn't feel like making candles....This was before cars...quarter barrels at ye ole general store we are talking about here. IPhones would be more of a necessity.

again on the first page...


you missed it..
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Yes it was small and niche, their main product was kerosene, for Lamps..In rural areas....A luxury to those who didn't feel like making candles....This was before cars...quarter barrels at ye ole general store we are talking about here. IPhones would be more of a necessity.

again on the first page...


you missed it..
Oil was a niche as long as coal was king. But oil was energy, one of the cornerstones not only of industry but all modern living. Once oil became synonymous with energy, the niche argument was obliterated. cn
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Yes it was small and niche, their main product was kerosene, for Lamps..In rural areas....A luxury to those who didn't feel like making candles....This was before cars...quarter barrels at ye ole general store we are talking about here. IPhones would be more of a necessity.

again on the first page...


you missed it..
you didn't miss the part about private ownership and consolidation of finite resources, you just choose to ignore it because you are afraid to admit it

Oops, this byproduct, gas, makes society run, who knew...
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Oil was a niche as long as coal was king. But oil was energy, one of the cornerstones not only of industry but all modern living. Once oil became synonymous with energy, the niche argument was obliterated. cn
Diesel designed his engine to run on peanut oil. He only got funding to mass produce when Morgan had him modify or to run on fossil fuel.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
By the way Deprave, you were very effective here, in small ways I figured you knew this but you reduced my stance to one example. This also highlighted the fact that in a selection of flawed choices, the free-market capitalists, while also flawed, were by far the preferable among the lot.

I voted libertarian.
 

deprave

New Member
By the way Deprave, you were very effective here, in small ways I figured you knew this but you reduced my stance to one example. This also highlighted the fact that in a selection of flawed choices, the free-market capitalists, while also flawed, were by far the preferable among the lot. I voted libertarian.
Thank you, good to hear.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
By the way Deprave, you were very effective here, in small ways I figured you knew this but you reduced my stance to one example. This also highlighted the fact that in a selection of flawed choices, the free-market capitalists, while also flawed, were by far the preferable among the lot.

I voted libertarian.
You said in another thread that you voted for Jill Stein.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Thank you, good to hear.
Don't get the wrong idea, I still think that anarchocapitalism is not really anarchist at all. I just agree with anarchism and the direction that people are going with it. Hierarchical corporate structure and private ownership of means of production are every bit as coercive as government can be. Actually, since government is not living up to it's full potential of authoritarian dominion, it is even more coercive, but I respect the desire to be self sovereign.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
there is no free market, there will never be a free market and this is not because of government. Corporations do not what, nor have they ever wanted a free market and they will do anything in order to prevent such an environment.
Corporations exist thru the machinations of government...hmmm.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
All forms lead to tyranny. A corporation is a way isolate the individuals' personal lives from the economic situation of the corporation . But, legally individuals are still subject to the Laws.

Corps are a way to keep Govt in check. Govt keeps Corps in check. It is a mutual Self Interest. Realism.
 

Kervork

Well-Known Member
Capitalism as it stands today sucks. It is an outgrowth of a fiat currency system and idea that we have limitless resources.

As an alternative I point to the Open Source movement. Things are created not for profit, but because they are needed. The technology is given freely as well as the right to modify, improve and build upon.

Look at what has happened in software development. Open source is thriving and growing at a rate faster than proprietary software. This website runs on open source software on an open source server.

The goal of capitalism is to create demand and scarcity. The goal of open source is to fill demand and create abundance.

When you see two opposites, look closely and you will learn they are the same. It is only then you can find the third opposite.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Capitalism as it stands today sucks. It is an outgrowth of a fiat currency system and idea that we have limitless resources.

As an alternative I point to the Open Source movement. Things are created not for profit, but because they are needed. The technology is given freely as well as the right to modify, improve and build upon.

Look at what has happened in software development. Open source is thriving and growing at a rate faster than proprietary software. This website runs on open source software on an open source server.

The goal of capitalism is to create demand and scarcity. The goal of open source is to fill demand and create abundance.

When you see two opposites, look closely and you will learn they are the same. It is only then you can find the third opposite.
OpenSource prescriptions. NOW we're talkin. cn
 

deprave

New Member
Capitalism as it stands today sucks. It is an outgrowth of a fiat currency system and idea that we have limitless resources.

As an alternative I point to the Open Source movement. Things are created not for profit, but because they are needed. The technology is given freely as well as the right to modify, improve and build upon.

Look at what has happened in software development. Open source is thriving and growing at a rate faster than proprietary software. This website runs on open source software on an open source server.

The goal of capitalism is to create demand and scarcity. The goal of open source is to fill demand and create abundance.

When you see two opposites, look closely and you will learn they are the same. It is only then you can find the third opposite.
The GOAL of open source has little to do with filling demand or creating abundance, indeed it does create abundance and fill demand. I think its an interesting argument toward big government actually. Authoritarians will cite basic research as an example why government is needed, crony capitalism, etc...Additionally this is how they come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as 100% real freedom. Funny thing is that this is exactly what open source is 'basic research' on not just how code can be implemented but how it fairs in the real world. So its a compliment to real free market capitalist (not to be confused with the current system or even past systems), not the opposite and its also proof of concept for anarchy and free market capitalism in a sense. We see that the people without government/market intervention are moving technology forward more rapidly than the heretical system, a horizontal order is moving forward. This among many other reasons is why I commit my life to open source, true freedom.
 

Kervork

Well-Known Member
The goal of open source is whatever the creator released it for. The goal of star office being open sourced was to give microsoft a kick in the ass. It seems to have worked. Everything else is just a wonderful side effect.

Open source, the internet, are examples of functional anarchy. Anarchy is the future and it is the only freedom.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
The goal of open source is whatever the creator released it for. The goal of star office being open sourced was to give microsoft a kick in the ass. It seems to have worked. Everything else is just a wonderful side effect.

Open source, the internet, are examples of functional anarchy. Anarchy is the future and it is the only freedom.
Think of how harmful it is to capitalists who wish to patent and control and incrementally release to maximize profit. Open source develops too quickly for the profit driven model to keep up.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Think of how harmful it is to capitalists who wish to patent and control and incrementally release to maximize profit. Open source develops too quickly for the profit driven model to keep up.
But "open source" is specific to a "commodity" that has no material component and requires universally-available "tooling" to make. Unless "open source" can be applied to durable goods, e.g. cars and dwellings, is it really a useful model? (Am I missing something?) I do not see how it can be extended to cover them. cn
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
But "open source" is specific to a "commodity" that has no material component and requires universally-available "tooling" to make. Unless "open source" can be applied to durable goods, e.g. cars and dwellings, is it really a useful model? (Am I missing something?) I do not see how it can be extended to cover them. cn
I would like to call it a philosophy that can be applied to many endeavors but currently, it seems only to be in use as an approach to the development of digital information dissemination.

I can't help but think of the hitherto development of western philosophy wherein some particular person has to be credited with an idea and everyone else is either a plagiarist or quoting. I think as a philosophy, "open source" would be a fabulous model and would accelerate rapidly the spread of the peaceful metaculture we call enlightenment.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
And yet, if you look at the hardware side, one company has an effective monopoly on the popular not-quite-computers used to access the entertainment side of IT. The production of those toys has a high barrier to entry. Such high barriers protect "closed source" markets. I mean it ... unless the system can be shown to
1) work, and 2) be competitive in the presence of "business as usual", (especially for very unsoftwarelike markets like housing and ag seed) it's just a fluffy manifesto imo. cn
 
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