eCONOMIC THEORY

abandonconflict said:
th

Vacant houses outnumber homeless people in the US.
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So much power in that statement!!!
 
I'm sure Karl Marx had the same ideals as you,
fact is humans are greedy, that's why communism/socialism cannot work,
humans want bigger better,nicer,more of this more of that, the only systems that caters is capitalism,
everbody is given an equal chance,state education etc. go out work,earn your dough,live your life.
people are not satisfied with an allocated living space,work food etc.
also humans don't really care about things that do not directly affect them, the average man on the street couldn't careless whether Africa is starving until someone says "we're deducting ??? Amount from your wages to feed Africa, then the response is fuck that! I need a new car.
sorry bro, human nature.
Any sort of utopia cannot work, there is always someone who wants to be better off.
im one of them too narrow minded,even stupid I maybe,but I see reality.GREED! The way it has and always will be,for our at least our life spans anyway. Night R.I.U.
think about it peeps you know it's true, search your heart, what do you want, a new car? Or feed Africa,the homeless whoever for a year and forget you new Porsche ? Night,
 
How though, who is allocated what and why? How do you earn,say,a house?
we're stuck with the way it is, greed! :D big smile to you too TLD.:D


THE RED TERROR!!! Lol!!
 
abandonconflict said:
I'm not sure what you're asking of me. I can tell you that what i am proposing challenges authority and that sooner or later authority ought to be challenged. I can also tell you that said challenge will run the risk of falling into a Stalin-esque despotism.

We have already seen a fake vanguard come along and mislead a growing anarchist sentiment to embrace voluntryist ideas.

If you are asking me to convince you that people are capable of controlling their own destinies all I can say is that I believe you are and I don't think you are special.
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I am not capable of controlling my own destiny. I have a fairly narrow set of social/monetary options that i can arrange as I see fit, but that is a far cry from being master of my destiny.

But that is beside the point I was trying to make, which isn't about the individual but the group, and the age-old dynamics of humans in groups.

So far and currently, fear and greed are the two motivators that have "stuck". I am unaware of a national or national-scale unit that has been able to harness more positive forces (love, compassion, altruistic sentiment in general) and been able to prevent corruption into the more usual form.

I also see a basic conflict between individualistic and collective sentiment. It's no mistake that collectivized societies raise conformity to the level of the principal virtue. "Unsere Ehre heißt Treue." It's difficult to be a true individual in such a society, as such behavior is punished as subversive. We've had modern societies (villages, kingdoms) for a good ten thousand years, over six thousand more or less continuously recorded, and thousands upon thousands of independent human cultures. We're left with what works least badly, and the age-old dialectic is between conservatives and liberals in any age. Engels and Marx hoped that the dialectic was about to emerge into the golden synthesis, but history has given that hope rather rough regard. All jmo. cn
 
kenny ken 77 said:
How though, who is allocated what and why? How do you earn,say,a house?
we're stuck with the way it is, greed! :D big smile to you too TLD.:D


THE RED TERROR!!! Lol!!
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as far as allocations in a transition of monetary value.... not entirely sure- democracy should help settle that issue.

the value of work is inherent, shouldnt any who are willing to to work be allowed to do so? Shouldnt they be afforded housing for working... I have been rolling the idea of a different monetary system around in my head.

What is the tangible value of money? What is its value established by?
 
theloadeddragon said:
abolish money, not capitalism, change the way we practice it... ;)
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This would not be a good idea IMO. You would be creating many barriers to trade. Guy wants food. Has skills to trade. No one needs his skills. Guy has food, but no one has the skills he needs in return.

I think you can start to see the issue.
 
theloadeddragon said:
as far as allocations in a transition of monetary value.... not entirely sure- democracy should help settle that issue.

the value of work is inherent, shouldnt any who are willing to to work be allowed to do so? Shouldnt they be afforded housing for working... I have been rolling the idea of a different monetary system around in my head.

What is the tangible value of money? What is its value established by?
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The valuation of work is not inherent however. Serfs and slaves are the obvious counterexample. cn
 
UncleBuck said:
does that include seating on public transportation, too?
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Privately owned bus companies are privately owned. The government could of easily made it part of a contract to run the public routes, but instead the government itself mandated the segregation. This is wrong and illegal. The private companies didn't want to stay segregated, this is the free market working. Businesses should not be forced to serve anyone as a business is private property and what right should you have to tell someone what they do with their property?
 
OGEvilgenius said:
This would not be a good idea IMO. You would be creating many barriers to trade. Guy wants food. Has skills to trade. No one needs his skills. Guy has food, but no one has the skills he needs in return.

I think you can start to see the issue.
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"no one needs his skills" so he is unemployed.... and therefore makes no money to support himself?

Change the policies of trade ;) Business and trade would still exist, and capitalism as well... just not in the current method of function (or dysfunction in our current system)
 
abandonconflict said:
Oh, voluntaryism. You mean like private armies to protect means of production from hungry mobs? Yeah, that sounds a lot like liberty. Please go on about how liberty is possible with out justice.
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In other words "Fuck Yo 401k, nigga." (jumping on your stocks)

Businesses aren't even owned by some magical ruling class. They are publicly traded companies and largely owned by a huge number of normal people through 401k and stock. Your ideas are more about rage against our magical corporate owners than they are about anything with a point. Still going through your teenage years I would guess.
 
abandonconflict said:
Oh, voluntaryism. You mean like private armies to protect means of production from hungry mobs? Yeah, that sounds a lot like liberty. Please go on about how liberty is possible with out justice.
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How do you expect justice without laws and government? You know that as it stands now the government is under no obligation to save you even if it knows you are being raped, murdered, or killed and you have nothing to say about it if you live through it? The president can execute you without a trial if he wants, the government has no responsibility to help you, and they are taking away your rights and capability to help yourself. Good setting for a new Hitler style regime to start a new war.
 
abandonconflict said:
homeless.jpg
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He wants to be laying there or he would get up and do something. If he is disabled, our culture and society is advanced enough that we can take care of that. If he is disabled then he can easily get help, if he isn't then he can get help still and is just lazy. That is like saying people who are on welfare and sit in the trailer park all day doing meth are due to capitalism. They aren't, it is due to 'don't give a fuck' disease.
 
cannabineer said:
The valuation of work is not inherent however. Serfs and slaves are the obvious counterexample. cn
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hmmmm... the amount of work it would take to draw up the statistics, and put all this together would be immense... but gotta do it sometime I suppose.

Im not just throwing some baseless crack-up idea out there. I think what I have come up with is definitely doable and beneficial to the way our world views economics, and crucial in terms of how the world views economics in relation to ecology and our natural ecosystem. have to figure out how to put it into a brief presentation.... the thing is up front and admittedly- there are a great many issues with this idea to which I dont have an immediate answer and I am glad I dont, the point of the system itself is to allow society to Function and Thrive, many solutions would need to be devised and created by the constituents of the system itself (the very definition of self governance as it was originally intended no?). The essence of the idea is to first change who has control of the money supply. It should be the congress's duty to control and regulate the money supply.
 
cannabineer said:
I am not capable of controlling my own destiny. I have a fairly narrow set of social/monetary options that i can arrange as I see fit, but that is a far cry from being master of my destiny.

But that is beside the point I was trying to make, which isn't about the individual but the group, and the age-old dynamics of humans in groups.

So far and currently, fear and greed are the two motivators that have "stuck". I am unaware of a national or national-scale unit that has been able to harness more positive forces (love, compassion, altruistic sentiment in general) and been able to prevent corruption into the more usual form.

I also see a basic conflict between individualistic and collective sentiment. It's no mistake that collectivized societies raise conformity to the level of the principal virtue. "Unsere Ehre heißt Treue." It's difficult to be a true individual in such a society, as such behavior is punished as subversive. We've had modern societies (villages, kingdoms) for a good ten thousand years, over six thousand more or less continuously recorded, and thousands upon thousands of independent human cultures. We're left with what works least badly, and the age-old dialectic is between conservatives and liberals in any age. Engels and Marx hoped that the dialectic was about to emerge into the golden synthesis, but history has given that hope rather rough regard. All jmo. cn
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I would be surprised if once we reach the level where we can make matrix type worlds in computers that people can inhabit that government retirement isn't that and that they don't offer free make believe worlds to people who are criminal, insane, poor, ect.
 
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