LED Users in specific! DWC, Pro Grow 180- Calcium and Magnesium; The Battle..

Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Bare with me- I am a newer grower, have a remarkable history to over fertilize, and have my plants on my mind too much for it to be healthy in any manner.

The Setup
-10 Gallon DWC totes Veg/Flow. with 2 airstones on tetra 100
-Pro Grow 180 Panel, 3w model-79w blue, 77w red (picked because the more blue output out of all of my panels)
-R/O Water (4-12ppm)
-Dyna Gro and Bloom
-Bot. Cal/Mag+
-Hanna Meters, one continuous, one handheld TDS, and ph drops (system of checks and balances)
-^^^on a 0.7 Conversion Factor

Veg Chamber001.jpgTemps.JPGFlower Cab.JPGSCROG001.jpg

:Now for the Problems:

1. I got Tangerine Dream (5 1/2 weeks old)
-Indica Dom. (Mag chlorosis)
-Sativa Dom. (Calcium spots)
2. Low RH (flux between 19-55%)
3. I started off over ferting
4. Possibly too strong of light right now? (630nm-660nm in specific?) Would love some input from some Vet. LED runners (dawg, beefbisquit, you know who you are)

Basically.. Ive battled this since the beginning of this grow, it doesnt affect the newest growth.. only the growth thats about a week old and just under the new growth.

Originally fed at:
-150 cal/mag (15-17ml)
-200 Dyna Gro

(showed a def of cal and mag but had some leaves cupping from over doing it so,)

Then tried:
-180
-100

(Pretty sure I had some serious toxicity ie. lockout, derr)

So now we're here:
-100 Cal/Mag (8.5ml)
-150 Gro (6.5ml)


Pics are probably a week old:
Indica Dominant:
ind001.jpgind002.jpgind003.jpg

Sativa Dominant:
sat006.jpgsat005.jpgsat002.jpgsat004.jpgsat003.jpg


I know that I'm in the ballpark for RO water, but I am really wanting to hear what some other LED, DWC, and RO users are doing with their water that may shed some light onto my situation.

I have heard some things about too much 630 or 660nm causing stunted growth and a MG def look, I would be crushed if my PG's were the cause of this... have also read you need more CalMag when using leds (hence me throwing it up to 180ppm)...

I am screaming out- What would you do?

-Bust through it, hope they bounce back?
-Trash em?
-Different approach to nutes? I am open to changing the regime, but prefer the KISS method
-Take some clones and toss the originals into flower?
 

Attachments

Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Bump!

Spots are spreading on to the next set of fan leaves even after adjustments -_-

My next idea is to throw some cfls I'm there to see if it's a spectral issue.
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
You really should PM Dawg and ask ever so nicely what he thinks. My opinion is that your nute regime is way too strong for that light, not enough growth for the amount of nutes you're runnin, but I don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to dro :) And more light wouldn't hurt either, still I bet it's the nute regime that probably needs tweaking. Maybe it has something to do with different TD phenos needing different nutrients? And don't scrap them just yet. You could probably trim your way out of that with a little foliar feeding regime faster than you could start over.

That's all I got, gotta run :).
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Thank you Fran, I've been a this for wayyy to long and havnt gotten too much solid input.

They have been on the 100ppm calmag, 150 gro for 2 1/2 days and no improvements, ph just keeps dropping from 5.9-5.5 in 12 hours and they're drinking about 10 ppm a day and a 1/4" of water.

.....I'm gonna go change my res. once you hear it- it clicks.

I'll let y'all know tonight!
 
georgeforeman

georgeforeman

Well-Known Member
no need to be led or ro specific. if ppm is dropping, ph should be rising. Since your ph is dropping, i think you might have some funk in your res. Are you using any h2o2 or zone?
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Define "funk"

like salts on the tote? grainy feel to it?

I don't use anything as I told myself oooo no I don't need that, I change the res enough.

Heres what I do- 3 totes in rotation, one in use, one full of RO, one empty. Mix up the nutes in the RO tote, swap res' and situate plants, siphon 10 gallons of old nutes down the floor drain and then wipe it out with blue shop rags, and it goes back in rotation.

Am I like...majorly fucking up?

Ive read several (majority) of ppl using H202 but thought since I was on top of Pythium growth (<75F) and wiped the old salt buildup out it'd be cool.

What tells you that I may have a bacterial problem? (ie the ph degrading with the ppm)
-some of that hands on experience.

Had to deal with some shit before work today so I didn't get to change my res yet, gonna tomorrow morning.
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Ok My Brother Ive Read And Re-Read Your Post.First Of All Your Ppms Are Too Low For 5 1/2 Weeks Of Veg.This Is My Basic Nute Program With A Gro And Bloom Nutes.
First 10 Days R/0 Water Only
For Vegging I Do Not Count The First 10 Days
Week 1 400
Week 2 550
Week 3 550
Week 4 750
Additional Weeks Of Veg 750

Flower
Week 1 950
Week 2 1000
Week 3-7 1100
Week 8 950
Week 9 250

Now I Noticed Your Adding 15-17ml Of Cal/Mag Is This Per Gallon Or Is That All Your Adding To Your Res?If This Is All Your Adding To Your Res That Calulates To About 1.5ml Per Gallon Which Is Not Enough Cal/Mag.I Also Notice Your Using Botanicare Cal/Mag Which On The Back Of The Bottle It States To Use 10ml Per Gallon Which IMHO Is Too Much.I Start Off With 5ml Per Gallon And I Havent Had To Go Above 7.5ml Per Gallon Yet.

You Sound Like Myself On My First Hydro Grow Presisly Measuring Out Everything That Was Added.I Now Add 5ml Of Cal/Mag Per Gallon And Then Add My Nutes To Achive My Ppm Level.I Suggest You Do This And I Would Measure Out What It Takes Per Gallon Then Multiply This By The Number Of Gallons Your Res Takes.Hope This Helps Ya Out And In The Future If Your Needing My Help Just Come To My Journal Or Pm Me Im Always Ready To Spread Some Love :weed:

Oh I Forgot To Add That This Is Just My Basic Nute Program And I Adjust According To My Plants Needs
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Scotch089 said:
Bump!

Spots are spreading on to the next set of fan leaves even after adjustments -_-

My next idea is to throw some cfls I'm there to see if it's a spectral issue.
Click to expand...
Ok Brother For Your Calcium Defiency.Get Some Dolimite Lime And Foil Feed.You Only Need To Spray The Leaves Once.
 
urgod

urgod

Well-Known Member
has your pH meter been recently calibrated. normally, if you stick on the same regiment that worked, it should always work... unless your pH meter is out of calibration. then you would try to adjust your pH according to your meter. I had a problem where my meter was out of whack and i ph downed so much that my actual pH was actually 4ish... it caused many deficiency problems.
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Hey thanks dawg, im starting a new batch of RO then Ill change out that res. Thank you for breaking it down like that too, gallon for gallon. Ive looked at it that way but thought going by ppm would be more surefire, But, coming from a guru such as yourself- I cant go wrong.

What would you dilute Bot. Cal/Mag+ down to (ml/gal) for a foliar spray? Should I do a res change, wait and see, then foliar? or go ahead and foliar spray to jumpstart it all?

I just calibrated my ph back on the 10th of November so its been just over a month, I double check it almost daily with PH drops, spot on (.2-.3 flux), TDS meters keep a system of checks and balances as well.
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Great thread dawg! I'll be jumpin on that train this weekend when ive got time to run and get supplies.

When it says Mycogrow can replace all of those besides AF, could I just buy Mycogrow and use it accordingly? Or should I mix as he has stated? prefer the KISS method but you gotta do what you gotta do
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
alllllright, so here we are, quick update for all who have contributed

Ive mixed up a batch of nutes, based on a 9-gallon res, not completely full so im guestimating,

-40ml of Bot. Cal/Mag+ (450ppm, breaks down to like 4.5ml/gal)this worries me a little bit...ive never used this much before, but all of you have invested your time into my problem, I would be a fool to not take the advice of the fellow LED runners of RIU, thank you

-10ml of Dyna Grow (200ppm, give or take)

res is outside warming up before I swap em out, right now its 650ppm@57F, im gonna guess itll escalate to a 700-725ppm area by the time it gets to 68F.

I noticed a couple things that I thought I should note that I had never noticed before:

First, I dropped my damn syringe in my little quart of Cal/Mag... let's not talk about it... after trying for 10 minutes trying to get it out, I noticed that now its has a foggy, milky look to it. son. of. a. bitch.

Luckily I have a whole gallon unopened I got on a bargain, so I decided to be safe and dump the old and start with the new, crystal clear. (now I was fingering around in that quart with a latex glove on so that may have caused the fog?)

Second-There are white spots on the roots of the sativa dominant pheno, and both are tinged a brown color- though I see this as just nute stain- could it be more? pythium?

Specifically the spots, they rub right off and looks like its a buildup of sorts.

Third-The roots keep growing, like healthy white shoots coming out the side of the net pot, the original roots just keep getting longer and longer and longer...kinda worried about it actually. But would this suggest they are working to get more nutes? because of the buildup, of low ppm?

Here are some pics to help everybody understand what I'm talkin about:

Indica Dominant pheno:
indica005.JPGindica006.JPG

Sativa Dominant:
Roots001.jpgRoots002.JPGsat006.jpgSativa007.JPGsativa008.JPGsativa009.JPG

Im gonna go change that res, fingers crossed everybody!



:EDIT:

Just changed out the res (noon here); flushed the roots with RO water and rubbed them to try and stimulate those white spots to fall off. didnt wanna hurt em.

PH is about 5.7-5.8, room to rise or fall....please rise. ppm around 670 so far.

btw, is it a huge issue to flush with cold water? serious stunting occur? assuming so..
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Scotch089 said:
Great thread dawg! I'll be jumpin on that train this weekend when ive got time to run and get supplies.

When it says Mycogrow can replace all of those besides AF, could I just buy Mycogrow and use it accordingly? Or should I mix as he has stated? prefer the KISS method but you gotta do what you gotta do
Click to expand...
My Brother I Use The Recipe On The 1st Pg Of That Thread And It Works Great.My Moto Is If It Anit Broke Dont Fix It
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Your Roots Are Very Healthy And I Cant See What Your Talking About(White Spots)And With Your Ppm Being Low I Dought That Its A Salt Build Up.I Myself Wouldnt Worry About That.The Link I Posted For Ya Will Go Into Every Aspect Of Keeping Your Roots Looking Healthy.Sounds Like Some Water Got Into Your Cal/Mag Causing It To Go Milky.
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Loud and clear Dawg, thank you.

Any input on foliar feeding Cal/Mag? (ml/liter, ml/gal) or the white residue on the roots?

I know it's hard to see in the pictures but t looks and feels like little chunks of soggy Wonder Bread lol
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Scotch089 said:
Loud and clear Dawg, thank you.

Any input on foliar feeding Cal/Mag? (ml/liter, ml/gal) or the white residue on the roots?

I know it's hard to see in the pictures but t looks and feels like little chunks of soggy Wonder Bread lol
Click to expand...
Wonder Bread Really You Just Had To Go Their Lmao I Used To Run The Bread Line At Night For IBC.Glad I Left Before The Management Bankrupted That Company Lol.To Be Honest Ive Never Seen That Problem Is It Slimy?It Does Sound Like Something Got Into Your Res.How Often Do You Change Your Res And Do You Bleach It?I Do Res Changes Every 7 Days And I Soak My Res In A Diluted Bleach Soliution 1/2 TableSpoon Per Gallon For 30 Minutes While Giving My Roots An Air Bath They Just Love It When I Do That.I Dont Foliar Feed With Synthenic Nutes I Use Organic And In My Research You Can Also Use Dolimite Lime To Fix You Mag Def Also.I Will Pm Ya A Guide On Plant Problems And How To Correct Them.Below Is A Link To Home Depot This Is The Garden Lime That I Use.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=dolimite lime&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Haha damn, yea I'm in a factory now.. No good man, but it pays the bills.

It's not slimy, but puffy like it has expanded or something.

I change my res every week, but for a while it's been every 4 days cus I just can't make my ladies happy :/ I dot use bleach, I do have a bottle of alcohol I could use? Safe? If not I'll pick up some extra bleach. I don't give em that air bath you're talking about; may start lettin em hang while I change over if you've seen positive consequences.

Thanks for the pm, I can't read it thoroughly now(ooo second shift..) but that will be tonights reading material.

Thanks Dawg

Ill post a lil update when I get home and check the girls, till then; more thread browsing bwahaha.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top