NRA wants elementery schools to be the foundation of a police state.

[cannabineer]

I have yet to see anyone suggest all guns be taken away, yea some may want that but the average person is not suggesting that, I think we can all agree it won't happen at least in our lifetime. I also absolutely do not believe gun laws have gotten tighter and tighter, if anything they've become more lax.

Its the dishonest intellect that gets me.... blame movies, video games, prescription drugs, the media, lack of God, music....everything but guns. Every country on the planet has these same issues yet they're not shooting each other by the tens of thousands every year. How do you explain that?

I cannot really tell you. I do not blame any of those things except the media. When the icon for a violent crime story is a handgun (whether or not the crime involved one) I can see that the fix is in.

You might not be suggesting it, but i have seen too many people applaud when a gun restriction is voted in. I do believe that the anti-gun lobby in this country is using "gun control" as a blind for gun removal. If you can show me otherwise, if you can show me that Gun Control Inc. has a plan for some residual civilian ownership and carry, I'll shoosh.

I am worried about the Ratchet. Legislators like things simple, even if their attorney confrères thoroughly enjoy finding as much complexity as they can in simple laws. Legislators will likely polarize into two camps: those who say guns are already overcontrolled, and those who say that as long as there are weapons out there to interfere with the jobs of the uniformed protectors of society, there are too many. Middle ground is not stable in this debate. I want to retain my right to won, possess, and carry a gun as long as the threat of violent crime is less of an aberration than a horror like Sandy Hook.

I propose a very simple test for the suitability of gun control. If the police and letter agencies will submit to precisely the same level of gun control as civilians, i can accept a lot. Imo Great Britain is the model here: their cops do their duties unarmed. Even Japan, the supposed model of social tranquility, arms its officers. To that i say something rude, ideally in Japanese.

Test the concept by passing a Federal-level law that limits the policeman to the weapons allowed civilians. I will wager that the nationwide support police organizations have for gun control will vanish like a puddle in Libya. cn

 

[Ernst]

We have punishment for violent crime so why is that alone not enough to stop these things and why the hell not require background checks on all gun sales including private sales?

What will we lose by mandating that all sales be public record? We do it for Cars and Trucks plus a lot more.

 

[Beefbisquit]

Know what would have stopped this shooting from happening? A god damn $5 trigger lock, or a gun safe.

Basically any form of responsible gun storage.

 

[tibberous]

Middle ground man, middle ground. National background check for all gun sales and much stiffer sentences for gun crimes are a good compromise.

There are already background checks for guns. Stiffer sentences for possessing a gun aren't going to do much more than encourage people to use them - the second you actually USE a gun, your facing attempted murder, which generally can carry a life sentence.

And I don't think a guy who commits 15 counts of first-degree murder cares about a sentence for firearm possession. Most people (not hunters) want guns to protect themselves in their houses. Guess if you don't own anything and live in the city, that might be hard to realize.

 

[tibberous]

Test the concept by passing a Federal-level law that limits the policeman to the weapons allowed civilians

You know the government is giving LE agency surplus military gear right? Armored hummers, all kind of crazy shit.

 

[Harrekin]

We have punishment for violent crime so why is that alone not enough to stop these things and why the hell not require background checks on all gun sales including private sales?

What will we lose by mandating that all sales be public record? We do it for Cars and Trucks plus a lot more.

Cos a background check would've stopped the kid killing his mother then going on a rampage...

Youre almost as stupid as Abandonconflict and Chesus' wife put together.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Bear,
There was already such a test you ask for. The cops in the Hollywood shoot out couldn't handle their awesome firepower. They couln't even shoot the gunmen. Their bullet proof vests were too strong.

What happened in that shoot out is what lefty retards want to happen to regular citizens. The police were powerless against them. The roles were reversed. The police had to wait for the military to arrive with superior fire power for them to use.

The weapons the criminals used were already illegal. They weren't stolen from their mothers. If gun control (no guns) comes true like the lefties want, many more incidents like that will happen, but with lesser guns. Maybe next time they'll get away too.

 

[Beefbisquit]

Bear,
There was already such a test you ask for. The cops in the Hollywood shoot out couldn't handle their awesome firepower. They couln't even shoot the gunmen. Their bullet proof vests were too strong.

What happened in that shoot out is what lefty retards want to happen to regular citizens. The police were powerless against them. The roles were reversed. The police had to wait for the military to arrive with superior fire power for them to use.

The weapons the criminals used were already illegal. They weren't stolen from their mothers. If gun control (no guns) comes true like the lefties want, many more incidents like that will happen, but with lesser guns. Maybe next time they'll get away too.

Let's see,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States total - 124 School shootings in the USA alone (Sorry these are only NOTABLE shootings back to the 1920's, there's actually a ton more shootings)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting - 44 School shootings in the rest of the world combined


USA doesn't need any type of new regulation regarding firearms, everything seems to be working so well already! How do you expect to lead the rest of the world combined in school shootings by THREE FOLD if you don't have the most nonrestrictive gun laws in the developed world!

Everyone should keep a loaded, unsecured firearm in their house, that's easily accessible by minors. Hell, that's the American way! How the hell else are you supposed to kill a mother fucker?

Clearly putting armed guards everywhere is the answer. Reducing the number of violent gun crime is silly, lets increase the amount of violent response to those crimes! Fight violence with violence, that's the answer!

 

[Red1966]

The Question is do you understand my use of "police State" in that context. If you wish to debate the lines of scrimmage on "Police State" you will have to allow my use.

Your use of the term is just incorrect as you used it. I assume it was just for shock value.

 

[NoDrama]

Know what would have stopped this shooting from happening? A god damn $5 trigger lock, or a gun safe.

Basically any form of responsible gun storage.

there was a gun vault, apparently a 20 year old figured out how to open it.

 

[NoDrama]

I already explained this to you yesterday Francis, are you having bouts with Alzheimers again?

How again? I must have missed it.

 

[NoDrama]

If we require folks with mentally disturbed people in the house to use gun locks and secure the keys well the chances would be better don't you agree?

If we are looking to defend the same old political scrimmage lines then we have missed the point of this thread completely.. It's not think out of the box time it's time to think.

We are saying we wish to spend more money on government with cops in schools when we are unable to pay teachers.
Our first task on this issue is National Gun Law reform and requiring all to submit to a standard that includes the responsibility to safe guard against the mentally unstable .
We cannot lower the deficit and make Government Small by paying for more Police!

I am surprised the Conservatives are not connecting the Dots!

You don't think a 20 year old genius could figure out how to get a gun lock off?

 

[Red1966]

We have punishment for violent crime so why is that alone not enough to stop these things and why the hell not require background checks on all gun sales including private sales? What will we lose by mandating that all sales be public record? We do it for Cars and Trucks plus a lot more.

Those who kill themselves after a shooting spree are not concerned about punishment in the least. Requiring background checks on private sales seems like a reasonable idea, but wouldn't have prevented the Sandy Hook massacre. If by "public record", you mean some sort of registration, that can only be done at the state level according to SCOTUS. Actually making it a "public record" accessible to the public would not help, except to facilitate gun theft.

 

[NoDrama]

We have punishment for violent crime so why is that alone not enough to stop these things and why the hell not require background checks on all gun sales including private sales?

What will we lose by mandating that all sales be public record? We do it for Cars and Trucks plus a lot more.

How do you enforce a private sale background check?

How would a background check have helped in this case?

DO you think they should require a mental eval for everyone now? Just to prove you don't have some mental defect? If you do have a defect, everyone who knows you must submit to a lockdown of their weapons so even if someone breaks into their hoime they will not be able to defend themselves? Does that really sound reasonable to you?

 

[Red1966]

Know what would have stopped this shooting from happening? A god damn $5 trigger lock, or a gun safe. Basically any form of responsible gun storage.

This is true. The mother seriously screwed up there. Those who own guns for home defense want their guns readily accessible and resist this idea. I don't think this was the here, tho. I saw a fingerprint activated gun safe advertised. The butt of the gun is actually exposed. You deactivate the lock and release the gun in one motion. Cool.

 

[Red1966]

Cos a background check would've stopped the kid killing his mother then going on a rampage... Youre almost as stupid as Abandonconflict and Chesus' wife put together.

His mother HAD a background check. Who's stupid, now?

 

[budlover13]

i live in detroit , and my bank is right across the street from a cop shop ,, to walk into my bank you have to be buzzed in .
but i can just walk into any school ?

they need to have the same setup as the banks , locked doors and armed guards

Right? Society is ok with having armed people guarding our money but our KIDS? They aren't as valuable to us.

 

[st0wandgrow]

So someone illegally carrying a gun that they stole which was legally purchased with background checks which they illegally transported to a gun free zone kills some people and you say we need more of those laws, would it have been better if he broke 10 gun laws as opposed to 8? Would that of helped? lol

And the guns that were "stolen" were not properly stored, even though there was a 20 year old in the house that was a few sandwiches short of a pick nick. Your responsibilities as a gun owner don't end once you've taken ownership of the gun. This incident could have been prevented. I would support stiff penalties for people that are careless with their guns and allow them to get in to the wrong hands.

 

[st0wandgrow]

You can't stop crazy.

But if crazy had a knife instead of a gun, there might be a few less funerals this week.

See China.

 

[420God]

But if crazy had a knife instead of a gun, there might be a few less funerals this week.

See China.

If he had a bomb instead it could have been the whole school.