3 x 750WHPS + 24 site Ebb & Grow + basement = happy hiker

Hiker

Member
Greetings RIU!

My brand new basement flowering room (the first of two) is nearly complete! I fired up two of the lights last night. :mrgreen:

I created a post in my "Grow Journal", but I want a thread instead. I want to be able to have a conversation with folks that are interested in the project. Besides, I'm used to the forum/thread format anyway. :p

Below is the post from my "journal":
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I'm setting up a grow room in my basement. This is not my first grow ever, but it has been nearly two decades since I grew. Flower room 1, there are already plans for a second flowering room, is ~6'x12' (slightly bigger). I ordered seven strains from Herbie's and Attitude. I started 3 of each, plus a few of the freebie seeds I was sent, for a total of 24 seeds. I ended up with 9 different strains. I put each strain into its own wet paper towel and ziplock bag. I put them on a plate (don't use plastic as you want it to hold some heat) sitting on the Home Theater PC, in the living room, to warm them up. The next day, many had already begun growing their tap root. The next day, all of them had a root, or at least cracked, so I put them into small rockwool cubes. I put the rockwool under a dome in a small tray on a heating pad. 23/24 have developed into little sprouts. This is probably my favorite growth stage. I mostly use clones, so watching seedlings is a lot of fun. I'm already learning a lot about each strain. I keep detailed notes about each plant so I can keep track of each throughout their growth. This first batch is primarily to select some mothers. I'm hoping the genetic lottery is kind to me. I think I ordered some quality genetics, but we will see. I'm confident there will be at least one or two keepers in the group.


These babies will be transplanted into the Ebb & Grow as soon as I start seeing roots. They are currently about 10 days old, so some are just now starting to send out the second real leaf (not counting cotyledons). I will be vegging these plants for longer than normal to help my yield a little. Before flowering the plants, or sometime shortly after, I will take 2-3 clones from each. I don't trust feminized seeds, so 21 of the original 24 are regularseeds. I germinated 3 femmed freebies to fill in the remaining 3 buckets (it can't hurt to have 3 known females). Unless I'm really impressed by one of these 3 plants, I do not plan to choose a mother from one of the femmed strains. I'm assuming that ~50% of the remaining 20 plants will be males. I'm going to go ahead and flower those in a separate area to collect pollen. I don't use seeds often, so this is a rare opportunity for me to collect some.
The clones of the males will go into the compost pile. I will keep the healthiest clone from each of the female plants. Once I have harvested this first batch, I will make a selection for a couple mother plants.

I'm actually planning 2 batches of seeds back to back in this flowering room. Same plan essentially for both. After the room is cleaned a second time, my original mothers should be plenty big enough to supply enough clones to SOG the room. At that point I will be able to put a little more $$ into the basement for more buckets, and likely another reservoir and control bucket to let me run 2 different nute soups for different strains. I may also add another 750W HPS to the room, but I'll wait to see how well these 3 cover the 6x12 area. I just fired up the first light a couple nights ago, and those AAW reflectors are pretty impressive. Three may be enough.

I'll post a couple pics of the flowering room being built after I figure out how to remove the GPS data from the iphone pics


In the meantime, here is the list of strains I'm growing this run:
TGA Subcool - seeds Apollo 13 X Vortex
Nirvana seeds - AK 48
Nirvana seeds - Bubblelicious
Bomb seeds - Cheese Bomb
Bomb seeds - Bomb THC
Dutch Passion - Blueberry
Seedsman - White Widow

Hopefully I get a couple good mothers out of the batch.

Thanks for reading. Next time I'll see if I can get some pictures up. Should have the flowering room completely finished in the next couple days. Electrical is done, walls are nearly up, then I just need to install ventilation/filtration and setup the bucket system. Easy

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Here are a few pics of the room being built...

Here is where the first flowering room will be. In this picture you can see the door that leads outside and part of the stairs leading up into the house. You can also see the chimney (no longer used in the house) that I will be venting into. I just opened up that cover last night, and found that the chimney is sleeved. It's a 6" pipe heading up, but my blower and ducting are all 8".

Should I switch everything to 6"? Should I just use a reducer? I haven't opened or installed any of the ventilation materials or equipment yet, so I can exchange it all. I just noticed the problem last night, so I'm still mulling over my options.
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Here is the basement looking the other away. Again, you can see the stairs leading into the house. The raised area at the end will be used for propagation (clones/seeds) on one side and drying/curing on the other. The area in the back left is where the mothers will live.
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The first step was running all the electrical and plumbing and such. The plumbing, gas line, and electrical for other parts of the house all travel through the basement ceiling. We're planning some renovations (kitchen remodel) to the side of the house opposite the electrical panel, so I had to make sure I ran a couple extra home runs across the basement (I just left wire coiled in crawlspace under kitchen). After all the infrastructure was in place, I started sealing up the basement ceiling (ie house floor). I installed insulation, then a layer of plastic, then plywood and mold resistant drywall on top of that. My hope is this will cut down on noise. You can also see a piece of cardboard I was using as a template for a wall I built around the stairs.
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Further along. You can see the completed wall around the stairs and the flowering room walls starting to go up..
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Electrical for flowering room 1 is done and walls are going up. I'm not putting drywall on the walls yet. I will see how much noise the room is creating first. I can always add the drywall later. One of the main advantages of installing plywood first is, I can put screws into the drywall anywhere.
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Room nearly ready. You can begin to see how I will give myself access to the room. The long wall is made of 3 sheets of 2" thick styrofoam board. I've done this in the past, and it worked out well. They are plenty rigid, light proof, and lightweight to move out of the way easily. I'm using Velcro to hold the panels to the 2x4's. It works pretty well. If there are any light leaks, I will just add a curtain over the panels.
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And finally a picture of the babies. 23 of the 24 seeds I germinated came up.
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One design aspect of this grow room you can't see in the pictures is, this room is not physically connected to the ceiling. All 4 walls stop about 1/2"-3/4" from the ceiling. I just used Great Stuff to seal up the gap. My hope is that this will reduce the vibrations sent into the rest of the house. I will be hanging all the fans on the walls. Since those are attached to the concrete basement wall, there should be no vibration.

You can see we're storing the fuel for our pellet stove in the basement. Eventually that area will be a flowering room as well. The pellets will be in the garage next winter. Basically, we're devoting the entire basement to this project.

Most of the babies are showing roots out the bottom of the cubes, so I'll be transplanting them in the next few days. I'll post more pics once I have all the buckets in place.
 

Hiker

Member
I've spent a lot of time in the basement recently. The babies need their new home finished asap!

I've got a few more construction pictures. It may not appear a lot has changed, but trust me, there has been a LOT of progress. I've been spending 4-6 hours a day down there after having already done 10 hours at the day job! Not a lot of sleep lately for this hiker. :sleep:

Here you can see my removable wall. It's 2" styrofoam insulation board. I've used this in the past and it worked well. It will be attached to the frame of the wall with velcro.
You can also see part of my light proof intake baffle. It's that piece of plywood in the bottom right wall cavity. It starts at the floor and, as you can see, stops before reaching the stud above. I attached more plywood to both sides of this wall and drilled a grid of 1 1/4" holes near the floor on both sides. This will allow the air to enter, through the side of the wall in this picture, then flow up and over the plywood, then back down to exit on the inside of the room. This will perhaps make more sense when you see pictures of the vents.
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Here you can some of the velcro. The black line is the edge of the styrofoam.
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Here is the velcro on a styrofoam wall panel. Here the black line indicates where the wall framing ends.
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This are 2 more shots of the intake baffle.
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I did a test run with 2 of the lights and the buckets to get a feel for how well it will all fit in the room. I don't think 4 large AAW's will even fit in this space! I think 3 lights are going to be plenty. Since I had the lights on, I put the babies under them for a couple hours. I think they liked it :D
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The babies. Anyone else think they look like little palm trees? They are so cute at this stage. Kinda like a puppy. hehe :hug:
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Here is a shot of the flowering room nearly complete. You can see the outside of the wall is nearly sealed up (it is finished now, will get pics up eventually). I had to pause to run some wiring for the exhaust fan. I bought a Soler & Palau, and I thought it would just plug in. It wants to be hard wired. I will just attach a cord to it, but the speed controller needs to be wall mounted, so it's going into that open wall chamber. This is before I applied the rest of the velcro, so those scraps of drywall are keeping the styrofoam from falling over. You can also see one of my dogs. This one likes to hang out wherever I am, so he spends a lot of time down here with me. :)
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Here is the makeshift nursery. I just angled the lights yesterday. I think I like it a lot better this way. The babies sure seem to be happy there until I can transplant them into the Ebb & Gro.
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doubletake

Well-Known Member
Nice so you plan on using 3 1000s or 600s and that's a nice basement you got there mines all uneven and dirt you have a nice room right there, well welcome back to growing and good luck, and nice selection on the seeds about how maney weeks did it take for you to get ur seeds I just ordered from HErbies and they said expect some delays cause of the christmas season I'm really anxious ha I'm hoping for some time next week.
 

Hiker

Member
Nice so you plan on using 3 1000s or 600s and that's a nice basement you got there mines all uneven and dirt you have a nice room right there, well welcome back to growing and good luck, and nice selection on the seeds about how maney weeks did it take for you to get ur seeds I just ordered from HErbies and they said expect some delays cause of the christmas season I'm really anxious ha I'm hoping for some time next week.
Thanks. I'm running 3 750W's. I originally thought it would take 4 for fill this space, but 3 appear to be perfect. When I bought the house last year, a grow room was the furthest thing from my mind, but it's actually going to end up working well.

I ordered from Herbie's and Attitude. Both arrived the same day. It took about 2 weeks to get the seeds to my door. One package sat in customs, in San Francisco, for several days, but I think it was due to the Thanksgiving holiday. This time of year mail does take longer, but there is a bonus to that. With the increase in traffic, they are less likely to find your seeds. ;)

The biggest surprise for me so far is how long it's taking to get this flowering room up and running. I know a lot of it is due to work I had to do not related specifically to the grow room. I'm hoping I can relax a little once the babies are in their buckets.

Speaking of buckets, I started assembling the Ebb & Gro last night. The exhaust system is in place. All the lights and ballasts are hung. The room has been pretty thoroughly sealed (I plan to add CO2 after a few harvests). I'll finish getting the Ebb & Gro setup tonight, but I won't transplant the little ones for another day at least. I want to run the system through several cycles to make sure everything is operating satisfactorily. Other than finishing the setup of the buckets, the only remaining tasks are; put up panda plastic and re-glue the velcro on the styrofoam wall panels. The velcro comes with adhesive already, but it's not strong enough. It's not that it won't hold up the panels. The problem is the adhesive isn't as strong as the velcro, so when I pull the panels off, it is pulling up some areas of the velcro. I'm not realy surprised. When I've used velcro like this in the past, I had to do the same thing. It seemed like it was sticking pretty well this time though, so I was hoping they had improved their adhesive. Oh well, nothing a little contact cement won't fix. :)

huuh yeah ok, thats what she said ;)
She said she was a happy hiker? lol





I don't have any new pictures to put up. I'll take some new pics once the buckets are all plumbed up and the room is basically done.
Thanks for reading. I hope everyone enjoys the journal bongsmilie
 

doubletake

Well-Known Member
Haha he'll yea contact cement should do the job, what made you change you mind about putting the room up if got a close friend I'm trying to talk into that has a perfect big spare bedroom and he owns the place so no problems really ha I'm trying to thing of some ways to get him in he's got a nice little closet grow going ha but just wont go for the room many the smell but there's carbon filters for that haha
 

doubletake

Well-Known Member
Got my seeds from Hebrides today damn they were quick even with the holiday I'm excited problem going to start terming them is weekend get them in soil the day after Christmas and inside the grow cab
 

Hiker

Member
Got my seeds from Hebrides today damn they were quick even with the holiday I'm excited problem going to start terming them is weekend get them in soil the day after Christmas and inside the grow cab
Grats DT! I got my orders from Attitude and Herbie's on the same day. Ordered them the same day too, but one got to customs sooner than the other. I forget who shipped quicker, but it doesn't matter since they all got here safe and sound. :)

Lot's of progress on the room. I'll try to get some new pics up tonight or tomorrow. I got all the 'plumbing' for the bucket system done last night. There were a few leaks during the test run, but I'm not terribly surprised. With my 22 bucket sites, I think I counted it took 53 pieces of tubing to connect the whole system. Keep in mind every one of those required using the heat gun on both ends to get it to slide over the connectors! It took way longer to setup the Ebb & Gro than I anticipated. Of course, everything about building this room has taken longer than I anticipated. LOL

I just ordered an RO system. My water is bad. It comes out of the tap ~350ppm. 350ppm of what?!?!?! LOL My ph was not at all stable. I think the city is putting something in there that is buffering the ph up well over 7. I would be going through gallons of ph down without the RO, so it will pay for itself in one or two harvests I think.

I also had to order some fans. I bought 2 wall mounted fans from the hydro store, but they are just too big. Nice fans, SunLeaves 16" with circular oscillation pattern, but takes up a lot of room and blows too hard for my preference. I did move my lights to make room for them. I really did try to like them, but they just aren't gonna work in my space. I ordered 2 Honeywell tower fans from walmart.com. I think the tower fan's shape will work perfectly for a grow room. These fans, and now the RO system, are the last of the gear I need to for this room. Fans will be here Monday :)
 

doubletake

Well-Known Member
Nice yea I'll have to try attitude in a couple months when I'm looking for a new strain when they have another really good promo or something. And yea the rooms usually r really time consuming I smoke and work a lot though ha that might be a little bit of the reason ha. And nice the r.o system sounds like a must for you tap water is sketchy where I'm at too I'm always filling those 5 gallon jugs at the water store ha I might have to invest on one once the auto flowers get big how much did your r.o system run you?
 

Hiker

Member
Nice yea I'll have to try attitude in a couple months when I'm looking for a new strain when they have another really good promo or something. And yea the rooms usually r really time consuming I smoke and work a lot though ha that might be a little bit of the reason ha. And nice the r.o system sounds like a must for you tap water is sketchy where I'm at too I'm always filling those 5 gallon jugs at the water store ha I might have to invest on one once the auto flowers get big how much did your r.o system run you?
I'm not willing to haul water from the store :p That's not real discrete. Regardless of the murky legal status where I live, I prefer folks in my small town don't know I grow. Plus, that's too much work. I'm already hauling 5 gallon buckets of water into the basement as it is. Having to bring them in from the car, through the foot of snow we just got, sounds like even less fun! This RO system solves both issues. I get good water and I don't have to carry it down my tiny little stairs.
 

doubletake

Well-Known Member
Ooo nice that should work good, have you got any plants in there yet? And does you state even have med cards?
 

Hiker

Member
Ooo nice that should work good, have you got any plants in there yet? And does you state even have med cards?
I'm in WA.

Got more work done on the room. The environment is pretty good already, but there are couple tasks still on my list to get this room finished.

RO system will, hopefully, be here Friday. I know my reservoir ph will creep up naturally, but I'm still worried my water has something in it causing it to rise also. Starting from a 'blank slate' makes me a lot more comfortable with my nute soup.

I'm still having trouble with adhering the velcro to the styrofoam. Contact cements reacts, and melts, the foam. Same problem with 3M's 77 spray adhesive. I found a loctite product that didn't react, but it came off on my first test, although I only let it cure for about 16 of the 24 hours the directions say are necessary for full curing. I'm considering changing the approach to magnets instead. I will still need a way to adhere the magnets to the styrofoam, but I am thinking I could create a cavity for them via the sides of the panels. Assuming I get strong enough magnets, they should pull through the foam just fine.

Lastly, I still need to improve my intake. I'm not sure yet if I will be able to use a passive intake or if I'll need to add a fan. I have not made any changes yet, but I know the current intake is not allowing enough air in. I have to leave at least one of the wall panels askew in order to keep temps down. I'm waiting until I get my tower fans (should arrive today) to asses this situation further.



Everything else is working well. I got all the timers setup and the system is working well. Here are a few pics of the girls (yes some will be males, but I'm an optimist).

First is a shot of the whole room from the night I put them in the buckets. I didn't have enough rock, so they are not in their final state. The day after this picture was taken, I removed the plastic wrapper on the rockwool cubes and then completely covered them with rock.
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Here close ups of some of the ladies at 22 days from germination.
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The system is off an running now. I'm planning to raise the buckets to minimize the amount of standing water in the buckets. Right now, the rockwool cubes are touching the waterline. Once I raise the buckets, they will be dry. I want to give all of them a week or so to grow roots into the rock before I dry out the rockwool.
I'm having a hard time not spending all my time just watching them. :weed:


This thread/journal will be about the plants, but it's more about getting the new basement up and running. I'll post more pics of the plants when I think there has been significant change, but I'll also be posting more pictures of the basement itself as I continue to build. I still have to build a mother room, a vegetation/propagation area, and a drying cabinet. Then there is flowering room #2, various shelves and storage areas, closing in the furnace, finishing sealing off basement, etc. I predict the next installment of pictures will include the new tower fans and the RO system being added.
 

Hiker

Member
I just made a thread about a problem I'm having with temps:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/603894-new-room-temp-issues.html

I posted another picture for that thread, so I thought I should also add it here. This picture shows the exhaust system and reservoir area.
View attachment 2455860

I think most of the babies are starting to take off, but it's hard to tell. I'll take more pictures tonight and compare them. I need to figure out a way to shoot a couple plants from the same spot each day so I can watch it grow later :)
 

Hiker

Member
I was noticing some spots on the older leaves on a couple plants. I did some researching and diagnosed it as a Mg deficiency. This can happen in hard water when high levels of Ca lockout the Mg. I know I have a hard water problem, so this made sense. I'm still waiting for my RO system to arrive (was supposed to be here last night, so will be here today). I knew it was coming though so I bought some CALiMAGic when I was at the hydro store last week (hydro store is a 90 minute drive for me, so I have to plan ahead). I went ahead and added some Magical to the res on Wednesday evening. Last night (Thursday) they were already looking better. In fact, the 4 seedlings that were not doing well have noticeably changed for the better as well. One of my TGA Apollo 13 x Vortex babies had never looked good. It was stunted and was always very yellow. Apparently it is very sensitive to Mg. It is looking MUCH better now. It will probably remain a runt, but at least I am confident it will be able to be brought to completion (assuming it's female). Out of my 3 Cheese Bomb seeds, all 3 cracked, but only 2 made it out of the rock wool. Both of those also looked mutated. One stayed very very small, while the other grew a little but had very distorted leaves. The larger one is showing some normal looking new growth now. The little one looks like it might be doing the same, but it's still early to tell for sure. One of the White Widows also was very stunted, much like the TGA, and it's doing better now too. It hasn't greened up quite as well as the TGA, but it was much worse looking to begin with. So I only got 23 of my original 24 seeds I germinated, but at least now I think all 23 of those are doing well.

I'm not too bothered by all the difficulties so far. This first run is a bit of a shake down and a first round of mother selection. There will be at least one more seed run like this. Originally my plan was to SOG this room, but I may change that and grow a bunch of bushes instead. It will affect how many harvests I get a year, but I think I can live with a couple weeks delay for some extra veg time. I may end up with a hybrid sog. When I get my dedicated veg area setup, I could top the plants there and do sog with 4 cola plants instead of singles. I'm getting ahead of myself.... :p

The RO system should arrive today, so I hope to have it making water tonight. I was trying to wait to change my reservoir until I got that in place, but I couldn't wait. I started noticing a smell coming from the reservoir on Wednesday (the water was also cloudy). It was worse last night, so I went ahead and flushed everything with phed water and made a fresh 40gal of nute soup. I've been using some H2O2, but I'm considering trying a beneficial tea.

Here is a picture from about 11 hours ago after I changed the res and was about to leave them for the night (their day). I promise, I won't be posting too many veg pics. I'll post another in a week or so when they have really started to get bigger. A couple will probably start being trained this weekend. I will be taking the main top as a clone eventually, but in general I like to just tie them down (LST I think it's called these days).
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I'm having a lot of fun getting this dialed in. It's bringing back lots of memories. While I thought I remembered a lot, I'm realizing I've forgotten most of the specifics. For example, I had to lookup ideal ph, temp, etc. I wonder if it has anything to do with all that weed I smoked since I grew in the 90s! bongsmilie
 

Hiker

Member
Are you going to be doing perpetual? Or how many lights are over those plants?
I'm not exactly sure what's meant by perpetual. Does that mean you keep a room in flower photoperiod and harvest and add a few plants at a time? If so, then not right away.

Eventually, I will be vegging in a separate area, so I guess at that point it would be perpetual. I prefer to harvest the entire room though, so I can clean everything between crops. For now, I am vegging in this room. This crop, and at least one more, will be from seed. This batch has 2 goals, dial in the new system and search for mother candidates. I'm planning to 2 one more seed batch after this one since I don't think my mothers will be large enough to supply all the clones I want to fill this room. The plan is to do a semi-SOG. I haven't decided how I will do veg, but I'm leaning towards a flood&drain tray system. Then I could clone in the tiny rockwools, move them to some small netpots, or something, with rock. I'll probably use the topping method to produce 4-6 main colas. I know this technique is named after someone on the forums, but we used to do this back before there were forums. :p Not exactly the traditional SOG, but it should work at least as good, if not better for my situation. My timing in other stages of growth will just be different. I'll still be able to harvest just as fast as if I went straight from clone to flower. The difference is the clones will spend a week, or two, vegging out a little bit. Anyway... that's my plan right now.

There are 3 x 750W HPS in AAW reflectors (in hindsight, I wish I had bought vented hoods). The original plan was to put 4 in there, but after seeing the 3 in there, 4 would be too many. I don't think I could manage temps with a 4th light, and I don't think I could physically fit another in there anyway. :p
 

doubletake

Well-Known Member
Cool thanks for the detailed reply perpetual means yea have a sedate vegging are but like more then just that like under those 3 lots put 3 batches of plants under each light 3 weeks behind so u harvest every 3 weeks but it is easier to just harvest all at once and it's kinda nice getting all that bud at once hah, and also for the topping thing have u heard of supper cropping or lst where u pinch the stem till it falls over in a couple daysit heals itself and it works the same as topping with out hurting it by cutting the main shoot off mabey try it on a couple and c how u like it I have found I like it a lot more than topping cause u still end up with the main shoot
 
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