Leaving lower branches for 2nd harvest??

[patlpp]

Most of what he relayed I've been writing about for 15 years. I've also posted many times about my double harvest drill and included photos, which is taking off buds as they are ready. Aint no different than picking peaches off the tree. I harvested outdoor plants about a month ago and did my usual drill - took out the bulked up colas and left the lower part of the plant out in the sun to bulk up. Like this guy said, it's all about apical dominance which also affects the lower buds, commonly referred to as popcorn buds. Most folks believe those airy buds are there because they don't get enough light. That is a false paradigm.

UB

@UB - If those popcorn nugs are not from lack of light, what are they from? When I use your 2nd node top method, then follow with 1 more top of each (8 total colas) I seem to have much less popcorn, more so than just a 2nd node top by itself. I attributed that to a more even canopy. Isn't apical dominance the act of the main shoot growing taller to get closer to the light, kind of a competition thing?

 

[Moon Goblin]

@UB - If those popcorn nugs are not from lack of light, what are they from? When I use your 2nd node top method, then follow with 1 more top of each (8 total colas) I seem to have much less popcorn, more so than just a 2nd node top by itself. I attributed that to a more even canopy. Isn't apical dominance the act of the main shoot growing taller to get closer to the light, kind of a competition thing?

It is my understanding that the hormone auxin is responsible for apical behavior-- or, in other words, the molecular tool for such behavior/ structure.

The accumulation of auxin in a branch , such as in the main branch in an apical plant, will cause that branch to reach for the sky while having all other branches support it in it's venture.
When topping your plants (removing the top node), applying the F.I.M. technique (Fuck I Missed = removing 80% of the top node), or applying LST (low stress training), the apical plant (such as cannabis) will reallocate the phytohormone (plant hormone) auxin to side branches,instead of to the main alpha branch, trying to maintain its apical structure. In other words, the plant is thinking its dominant branch is no longer able to be dominant and invests it's auxin in other contending (for dominance, or closest to the light) branches.
Read up on it, I think it will explain a lot:
http://www.plant-hormones.info/auxins.htm
http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/archive/index.php/t-17720.html

To answer your question, Patlpp, the popcorn bud is the result of a lack of auxin-- which typically means the lack of resources such as PAR (photosynthetically active radiation units).

atypical apical....

 

[Slab]

hell yeah, blinding us with science. thanks for that MoonGoblin

there is a proximity awareness in Cannabis also, a lot of plants for that matter if I am not mistaken.

the sex life of plants is great doc if anyone wants some brain food.

sorry all over the place there,

apical dominance determines resource allocation ?

 

[Moon Goblin]

apical dominance determines resource allocation ?

I think so, just look at the size difference of the alpha bud compared to the rest, if a MJ plant was not topped.

 

[Moon Goblin]

hell yeah, blinding us with science. thanks for that MoonGoblin

Let me know if I can explain something a little better, and my apologies for blinding you.

 

[Slab]

well to be truthfull you've improved my sight !

it seems cannabis has a few different situal awareness traits, mindblowing.

 

[burwoodkush]

Well I've done that before but most people don't want to pay for an edible with no idea of what's in it. It's just easier to rid of nuggets. I suppose I can't lose any weight by doing it so ill just see what happens

I think;
if you're trying to make as much as you can from this plant.... then you are probably using the trimmings for hash correct?? just pick out your smallest unsaleable pieces, like the lower popcorn to throw in to make hash.
HASH RULES man, trust me, you wont regret it lol

 

[Moon Goblin]

well to be truthfull you've improved my sight !

it seems cannabis has a few different situal awareness traits, mindblowing.

Then you need to check out the "Backster Effect"

And, if so inclined, read the Secret Life of Plants

 

[Uncle Ben]

@UB - If those popcorn nugs are not from lack of light, what are they from?

I'll repeat what I wrote here and at Riddle:

Used to think it was all about light canopy penetration too....it isn't. I've grown Mexican, pure sativa, the indica mutts, etc. outdoors and they all produce popcorn buds for the botanical reasons stated. Hate to pop peep's bubble (as this is a very popular paradigm) but the formation of popcorn buds has nothing to do with light quantity or quality.

and.....

I just updated my post made a few minutes ago with another link to show that you'll get airy buds even on outdoor grown plants. Folks have it stuck in their minds that light has a direct effect on the lower buds.

When I do a double harvest (which I always do inside or out) I squeeze as much "goodness" out of the plant that I can. The lower popcorn buds will bulk up some, about double is a good educated guess. What I'm postulating which can be confirmed by analysing an outdoor grown plant is now that the upper half has been removed, the lower half (the popcorn buds) get ALL of the nutritional benefit of an established root system and auxins (which were in the top apical parts of the plant). The auxins which control growth (cell division/elongation) have now been redirected to the "new" apical terminal tips, or what's left. Useless if you lost your leaves down there, but that's never been an issue for me.

Chronological flower development plays a role too. Now you're focusing on the area that initiated flowers at the very last. By removing the top colas, they become "first".

Good luck,
Uncle Ben

....and here - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/521700-fan-leafs-blockers-light-energy-18.html

 

[VTMi'kmaq]

Well I've done that before but most people don't want to pay for an edible with no idea of what's in it. It's just easier to rid of nuggets. I suppose I can't lose any weight by doing it so ill just see what happens

that why you give them a sample to try if your a decent cook and know what your doing it'll gain its own fanbase, shit i make rice krispy treats and have become popular locally for them, lol too fucken popular!

 

[patlpp]

It is my understanding that the hormone auxin is responsible for apical behavior-- or, in other words, the molecular tool for such behavior/ structure.

The accumulation of auxin in a branch , such as in the main branch in an apical plant, will cause that branch to reach for the sky while having all other branches support it in it's venture.
When topping your plants (removing the top node), applying the F.I.M. technique (Fuck I Missed = removing 80% of the top node), or applying LST (low stress training), the apical plant (such as cannabis) will reallocate the phytohormone (plant hormone) auxin to side branches,instead of to the main alpha branch, trying to maintain its apical structure. In other words, the plant is thinking its dominant branch is no longer able to be dominant and invests it's auxin in other contending (for dominance, or closest to the light) branches.
Read up on it, I think it will explain a lot:
http://www.plant-hormones.info/auxins.htm
http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/archive/index.php/t-17720.html

To answer your question, Patlpp, the popcorn bud is the result of a lack of auxin-- which typically means the lack of resources such as PAR (photosynthetically active radiation units).

atypical apical....

I'll repeat what I wrote here and at Riddle:



and.....



....and here - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/521700-fan-leafs-blockers-light-energy-18.html

Thanks for the response guys. I was aware of the auxins and all from UB's topping thread. I was under the impression though that the auxins disperse primarily by apical behavior but also that light intensity played a more or less secondary role. Much more reading on my end is needed for sure. Thanks again.

 

[melissa70]

Thanks for the response guys. I was aware of the auxins and all from UB's topping thread. I was under the impression though that the auxins disperse primarily by apical behavior but also that light intensity played a more or less secondary role. Much more reading on my end is needed for sure. Thanks again.

Hey UB, I have been loyal reader/follower of your treads for few years now. Nothing but respect with the effort you put into his hobby of ours. I have been doing the 4 main cola tech with awesome results....even with alternating nodes, just some lst leveling out works. I get the apical dominance behavior...but if light exposure to the lower buds does not impact the size density, then why does side lighting work to bulk up the lowers?

 

[Uncle Ben]

Hey UB, I have been loyal reader/follower of your treads for few years now. Nothing but respect with the effort you put into his hobby of ours. I have been doing the 4 main cola tech with awesome results....even with alternating nodes, just some lst leveling out works. I get the apical dominance behavior...but if light exposure to the lower buds does not impact the size density, then why does side lighting work to bulk up the lowers?

It doesn't. I gave you links which explains the factors involved.

UB

 

[dopeboi69]

It doesn't. I gave you links which explains the factors involved.

UB

so you're saying that if I stuck a cfl inside my plant to illuminate popcorn buds, they would still be popcorn buds no matter what? because those "popcorn" buds on my plants are getting fatter as I am typing this... So for you to say those popcorn buds will remain tiny like that regardless of how much light or light penetration is WRONG. WRONG WRONG WRONG. why? because I don't get popcorn buds. master grower? you sir need to rethink your profession. You're handing out advice that is certainly wrong. The other week I saw you telling someone that they can't top a plant effectively when it has alternating nodes. really? that is also WRONG. go ahead reread your posts. This site is pathetic. So many MASTER GROWERS handing out the most moronic advice.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Don't twist my writings!

so you're saying that if I stuck a cfl inside my plant to illuminate popcorn buds, they would still be popcorn buds no matter what? because those "popcorn" buds on my plants are getting fatter as I am typing this... So for you to say those popcorn buds will remain tiny like that regardless of how much light or light penetration is WRONG. WRONG WRONG WRONG.

As I've posted a dozen times, with photos, I do a second harvest after taking out the colas and what's left gets all the goodies at that point and yes light does play a part (the plant still needs to process photons using existing leaves) but as I explained elsewhere, quite thoroughly I thought, the new apical dominant points also get all the goodies from the root system and apical dominance hormonal responses.

The other week I saw you telling someone that they can't top a plant effectively when it has alternating nodes. really?

I never said that shit-fer-brains. You can top a frickin' carrot or your own head for all I care, but you can't top a plant with alternating nodes and expect 4 main colas. Read the frickin' 4 main cola thread. You lazy noobies not only can't read, you can't comprehend and then try and spin it with a crock of half-truths.

that is also WRONG. go ahead reread your posts.

Here, ya stupid little jerk, READ - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get-228.html

Post #4542

Got it?

Now....how does that crow taste?

UB

 

[dopeboi69]

lol I top with ALTERNATING nodes all the time and get MORE than 4 colas. If you can do it then why did you tell someone you couldn't???? how about you re post that... You also told someone that side lighting doesn't not work. Wrong. How about you repost that? I have read you 4 main cola "growing pot for retards" thread. and as I said and many other people have said THAT PRODUCES AVERAGE PLANTS AT BEST. how does THAT crow taste you fuckin moron. You were wrong you just aren't open minded enough to admit it or you already would have. Oh and you also called my a liar when in fact I have lied about nothing. How about you tell me what I lied about dumbass.

 

[dopeboi69]

oh and spank me harder next time i couldn't quite feel it. Imbecile.

 

[hiitsbob]

you guys need to read more and get your heads out of your butts.
yes you can top wherever you want but do not get the desire results he explains.
before spewing at the mouth like a bunch of uninformed idiots read read read.
you bring so much hostility for no reason and look like a complete ass.
mediocre plants my ass he has produced some of the biggest buds i have ever seen.
look at his avatar for christ sakes.
you are foolish to spew listen read and learn.
i hate getting into any of this but makes us all look bad.

 

[dopeboi69]

you guys need to read more and get your heads out of your butts.
yes you can top wherever you want but do not get the desire results he explains.
before spewing at the mouth like a bunch of uninformed idiots read read read.
you bring so much hostility for no reason and look like a complete ass.
mediocre plants my ass he has produced some of the biggest buds i have ever seen.
look at his avatar for christ sakes.
you are foolish to spew listen read and learn.
i hate getting into any of this but makes us all look bad.

Yes I understand what you are saying. I know that I look like complete ass right now but I have a few very valid points where I CLEARLY pointed out something he said wrong and he simply won't admit it. You can re read his posts yourself if you don't believe me. Instead he came back with insults and supposedly "spanked" me over the internet. That was more asinine that anything I could have EVER done. I just had the balls to call him out which no one else did.... so? if you don't like me calling out people's bullshit then sue me.

 

[hiitsbob]

you can say what you like just validate it.
sometimes comprehension is not easy to do in text.
most of his topping techniques are focused on the 1st and 2nd node.
not saying you are right or wrong just read a few extra times and comprehend better i bet you would find his posts make more sense.
and like i said to say his plants are average is a slight against humanity.
i am shooting for his quality plants. others out there have nice plants also just do not let shit go to your head.