These inconsiderate fucks grow your medicine...

Mithrandir420

Well-Known Member
You're missing out ;) Why so anti-organic?
Because you are so pro organics. ;)

Seriously, I agree with you about the people this article reports on. However these issue are not negated or alleviated by growing organic. These people are just being schmucks and using stupid growing techniques that were outlawed for a reason. Now personally, I don't do organics for a few reasons but it boils down to that with hydro I have far greater control of the nutrients my plants use than any soil based method. If I have a BIG problem in hydro that is nutrient based it takes no more than 7 days from diagnosis to recovery. (Inert medium. Hydroton) If I can read my plants correctly I can tailor the entire nutrient solution to the plant. I understand plant biology and know that when the plant finally uses the chemicals they are far different than what goes in the soil. And that much like any living organism the plant will not use what it does not need. Now, these are of course simplified terms, but you get my drift.

I do not disagree that you can get great results using organics. But for me, hydro is the best. Diffrent strokes and all that. :D Although I disagree that you can push the nutes a lot harder. If you push too hard with organics you have to flush and flush and flush and change your nutes and teas and all that. If I push too hard I drain, fill, flush, drain fill, done. And recovery is usually 4 days or so.

Some people prefer to grow organically, in tune with mother nature. Others prefer to grow in a lab, in tune with the universe. ;)
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
more propaganda to fuel the hate mj machine...all farmers use irrigation but we don't see this kind of bullshit about it...

and organic? ha...you grow with shit...I will use EASY CLEAN Chemicals...period
 

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
Because you are so pro organics. ;)

Seriously, I agree with you about the people this article reports on. However these issue are not negated or alleviated by growing organic. These people are just being schmucks and using stupid growing techniques that were outlawed for a reason. Now personally, I don't do organics for a few reasons but it boils down to that with hydro I have far greater control of the nutrients my plants use than any soil based method. If I have a BIG problem in hydro that is nutrient based it takes no more than 7 days from diagnosis to recovery. (Inert medium. Hydroton) If I can read my plants correctly I can tailor the entire nutrient solution to the plant. I understand plant biology and know that when the plant finally uses the chemicals they are far different than what goes in the soil. And that much like any living organism the plant will not use what it does not need. Now, these are of course simplified terms, but you get my drift.

I do not disagree that you can get great results using organics. But for me, hydro is the best. Diffrent strokes and all that. :D Although I disagree that you can push the nutes a lot harder. If you push too hard with organics you have to flush and flush and flush and change your nutes and teas and all that. If I push too hard I drain, fill, flush, drain fill, done. And recovery is usually 4 days or so.

Some people prefer to grow organically, in tune with mother nature. Others prefer to grow in a lab, in tune with the universe. ;)
Right on, man. I see where your coming from.

I've gotta say though, if these guerilla growers were using sound organic gardening techniques, almost every single complaint in that article would be mitigated:

- Organic nutrients do not leach out of soil and cause eutrophication of rivers. Instead, they ADD to the health and diversity of soils, and support the entire natural food chain.

- Mulching with compost reduces the amount of water needed, while improving plant health

- No-till techniques minimize sediment transfer to rivers and streams, while enhancing the soil food web (read: healthier plants and higher yields)

- Chemical pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides aren't necessary because you're soil's natural defenses are strong. Using chemical ferts and 'cides kills off the natural defenses in your soil and of the surfaces of your plant. With these defenses gone, pathogenic organisms are able to take hold (then the "farmer" has to spray with something else).

- Chemical fertilizers are not needed because healthy soil feeds your plants for you.

These are just a few things that come to mind. I hope you understand I'm not trying to contradict you. There are PLENTY of non-organic farmers out there who are doing things in a responsible way. It's the ones who aren't that we need to talk to.
 

phishtank

Well-Known Member
I'm all for using chemical nutrients...but I'm against using strong chemical pesticides and what not. Whether you feed a plan cow shit or chemical ferts it's still taking up the same nutrients...just the latter is more efficient at giving plants what they need. However, I don't want to smoke meds with pesticide all over it. I've already got cigarettes for that.
 

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
I'm all for using chemical nutrients...but I'm against using strong chemical pesticides and what not. Whether you feed a plan cow shit or chemical ferts it's still taking up the same nutrients...just the latter is more efficient at giving plants what they need. However, I don't want to smoke meds with pesticide all over it. I've already got cigarettes for that.
Thats a whole other debate. Don't get me started!
 

Mithrandir420

Well-Known Member
Pesticides are (IMO) best used as a prophylactic, or preventative. For example, when I take clones, each one gets dipped in spinosad. Beyond that they never get touched with anything. If your crop has bugs bad enough that you have to spray mid flower you have bigger issues you need to take care of. My moms can be sprayed from time to time if needed, but they rarely ever do.

Always look at the labels, never spray mid flower.

As for the guerilla growers, that's all well and good but it doesn't negate the effects of diverting waterways or clear cutting areas of forest. Also, I haven't really done any research in to the long term effects of what any kind of organic growing in those areas would do, so I don't know. You may be absolutely right. Either way, those asshats make us all look bad by acting out of complete greed. What they do is as bad as what any big corp like Union Carbide has done in third world countries.
 

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
You're right. No sound gardening practice could make it OK to divert streams or clear cut forests... But, they could reduce their impact by making changes (for example, collecting water when it is plentiful for use when it is not).

I understand that it's damned near impossible to reason with people who are so driven by profit, but I had to vent a little. This shit just pisses me off to no end...
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/23/local/la-me-pot-enviro-20121223

Please, folks... GROW YOUR OWN ORGANIC HERBS!

Let's put an end to the environmental destruction that we all helped create....
What do you mean, "...that we all helped create..."? This has everything to do with the drug cartels abusing natural resources to make obscene profits on a black market item. This is a subtle propaganda swipe at medical marijuana, not organic vs hydro!

If you don't understand this and let them set the agenda we all lose. They are attempting to generate infighting amongst us to fragment us! To disrupt our focus from the re-scheduling of Cannabis from CSA Schedule 1.

This is a logical fallacy called the Loaded Question. Unless you know basic logic of argumentation you end up losing because the loaded question presupposes guilt. Anyway look this up on Wikipedia it covers it nicely. But the real point here is don't let anyone start cannabis growers fighting amongst themselves. We MUST focus outward.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
My argument for organics - I mixed my current soil 3 years ago and it's still fucking awesome. I don't have to do shit except mix in some more manure and compost every year then start watering the soil a month before I put plants in it. After that it's good to go. Plants stay perfectly healthy and are extremely low maintenance. You do some planning and work up front, but after that your soil basically takes care of itself. No waste, no mixing nuts every other day, and over a couple years it's significantly cheaper.

My argument against organics - indoors it's bullshit. less control on your nutrient regiment and you're not getting a real legit biological culture going like you do outside. Organic soil takes prep time. You're not supposed to just mix up some soil and throw some plants in it the same day. It takes time for your micro-organisms to populate the soil and the same microorganisms that thrive outside don't do so hot indoors. You're going to end up using bottled "organic nutrients" most of the time, so what's the point? If you're going to use bottled nuts anyways might as well just do hydro with synthetics. That's what they're for.

Also even the best indoor organic growers will admit they can't come close to matching hydro yields. There is no strength advantage to organic bud. The "it tastes better" argument gets blown out of the water if you do a two week flush. Think about it, what's getting flushed better, a soilless medium that you can completely remove all the nutrients and replace with pure water, or a soil where the nutrients are mixed in the soil? With hydro you can blast your plants full of high doses of nitrogen, then flush them out as you flip to 12/12, then fill them full of pk, then completely flush them out at the end. That's just better IMO. You get bigger, fatter, denser buds and give up nothing in return if you do it right.

The only reason people think hydro sucks is because a lot of people do it wrong. Organic mixes are much more forgiving. If you fuck up your nuts or ph you're going to know about it. Also people tend to pump their hydro full of too much crap, then don't flush them long enough. But indoors if you do hydro right it's simply better IMO.

So yeah, organics outside and hydro inside IMO.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
I haven't really done any research in to the long term effects of what any kind of organic growing in those areas would do, so I don't know. You may be absolutely right.
He is right. Synthetics nutrients aren't particularly good for your soil long term and if used outside for a long time they can kill off parts of the food chain. Some of the bigger commercial farms MUST use synthetic nuts all the time because they've wiped out the cultures in their soil (not just from nuts, but they play a role). Organic soil mixes improve the soil instead of harming them.

The worst thing for soil is the pesticide resistant GMO seed. The GMO seed in itself isn't bad, but the pesticides they use in combination with them absolutely annihilate all other life in the soil. We'll see in about 10 years or so a bunch of farm land that's completely unusable for the shit they are doing.

Anyone who thinks these growers are doing harm to the environment should look up Monsanto if they want to see some real damage.

As for the guerilla growers, that's all well and good but it doesn't negate the effects of diverting waterways or clear cutting areas of forest.
It is terrible. I won't defend that. But if you think about how we live our lives that's noting. We live in houses made from clear cut forest on land that at one time was all natural forest. We eat unnatural mass produced fruits and vegetables which are really fucking up the planet, make billions of animals spend their whole lives in boxes so we can turn them into food, and drive around in cars that shit all over our atmosphere. Humans are a fucking plague. These dirty grow is bad, but it doesn't even register in the top things we do to fuck up the planet every day. That's not an excuse, growers should behave better than that, but it is a fact.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
You're right. No sound gardening practice could make it OK to divert streams or clear cut forests... But, they could reduce their impact by making changes (for example, collecting water when it is plentiful for use when it is not).

I understand that it's damned near impossible to reason with people who are so driven by profit, but I had to vent a little. This shit just pisses me off to no end...
If you really think about it, all our water is diverted water. If you're watering your grow with water off the tap that water is likely coming from a man made reservoir. That's diverting water too.

Also most of the clear cutting in Humboldt comes from the lumber industry. The amount of wood chopped down in that county is mind boggling.
 

brimck325

Well-Known Member
most hydro guys dump used water down drain or toilet, where do you think this goes, back in environment. trust me, sewage treatment doesn't get your nutrients out.
 

Moon Goblin

Active Member
most hydro guys dump used water down drain or toilet, where do you think this goes, back in environment. trust me, sewage treatment doesn't get your nutrients out.
On-toppic:
-Hydro or organic- runoff causes problems in sensitive ecosystems.
"Organic fertilizers, despite the
advantages discussed above,
still release nutrients into their
surroundings; these nutrients can find
their way into local streams, rivers,
and estuaries just as nutrients from
synthetic sources do."
(http://environmentalhorticulture.umd.edu/ProductionInformation/Organics.pdf)


Off-topic:
-What about all the pharmaceuticals people piss into the toilet?

"8 of the 12 most commonly occurring chemicals in drinking water are estrogenic hormones."
can you say manboobs?

(http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2011/10/05/pharmaceuticals-in-the-water-supply-is-this-a-threat/)
 

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
What do you mean, "...that we all helped create..."? This has everything to do with the drug cartels abusing natural resources to make obscene profits on a black market item. This is a subtle propaganda swipe at medical marijuana, not organic vs hydro!

If you don't understand this and let them set the agenda we all lose. They are attempting to generate infighting amongst us to fragment us! To disrupt our focus from the re-scheduling of Cannabis from CSA Schedule 1.

This is a logical fallacy called the Loaded Question. Unless you know basic logic of argumentation you end up losing because the loaded question presupposes guilt. Anyway look this up on Wikipedia it covers it nicely. But the real point here is don't let anyone start cannabis growers fighting amongst themselves. We MUST focus outward.
The collective "we" created this problem by creating a market for herb. Yes, there are cartels working in CA, but there are also plenty of "medical" growers out in the hills. Do you think the dispensaries ask where/how herb was grown before they buy it? I think not. Propaganda or not, the article speaks the truth. Now it's our turn to ddo something about it.
 
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