The riddle of the gun; looking at both sides of the gun debate

[Beefbisquit]

a gun go off by accident?...is anyone really taking this article seriously?..i didnt know guns pull their own triggers...smh

Even if the Second Amendment guaranteed everyone the right to possess whatever weapon he or she desired (it doesn’t)
...thats EXACTLY what the 2nd amend. is, whoever wrote this article is a fucking moron. and im glad they dont own a weapon

He does own guns. You obviously didn't read the article. He also wasn't saying that they go off by themselves. He saw stating that some liberals think along those lines, that guns are inherently bad, and that just having one around puts your life in danger. He was making fun of that viewpoint.

You sir, are a dumb ass.

 

[Beefbisquit]

I would say self-defense is an excellent reason to have a gun, if one is so inclined. However (as a reason) for the amendment, self-defense is secondary to having a counterweight to the power of central government. The amendment specified the right to keep&bear arms, not to more generically defend oneself. I doubt the framers could foresee that it would even get to the point where the right to defend one's person would be challenged.

And that is why I oppose "reasonable" gun laws that attempt to shift the focus onto self-defense, which is a "softer" target for legislative challenge than the right to maintain the instruments of revolution. cn

There is no civilian force capable of overthrowing the most powerful, technologically advanced Military in the world. Sorry.

Aircraft carriers?
Battlehsips?
Drones?
Tanks?
Nukes?
Jet Fighters?
Cruise Missiles?

Seriously, what are you planning to overthrow because you lost your chance at about... ohh.....WWII?

 

[unohu69]

im not gonna read it, i dont care. there is no argument. case doesnt exist far as im concerned. I have the right to own a firearm, or any other self defense mechanism i see fit. dont like it? to fuckn bad. keep your mouth shut. me owning a gun doesnt impose my opinion or will on you. your trying to force me not to own one does. if you cant see the problem with that situation then there is no helping you, no amount of talking or arguing over it is going to convince either side they are wrong, and really, there IS only one right here.

You get your fukin crybaby bleeding hearts who jus think they can tell everyone else how to live because their ideas are the way it should be. they dont understand that bad shit happens to good people through out life. You can not legislate morality, or common sense. some people will flip out, and when they do, we cull them from the herd.

you anti gun people already have your utopia, its called Chicago (oh ya thats right, 15 shootings, 9 (?) dead one day into the yr.. move, jus as the people there that are bitching about what they are doing, dont like it? move. vote with your feet people.

If you havent seen this maybe you should, ya some of it sounds radical, but if you dont understand the necessity of it. there is no helping you. and you would have been completely happy living under Stalin, Hitler, or any host of twisted personality.... oh wait, you are happy living under a twisted personality.... we arent far away...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL63OFIdIIM

frikn board is hit or miss lately with adding videos...

 

[unohu69]

[video=youtube;gL63OFIdIIM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL63OFIdIIM[/video]


99% of you wont even be able to listen... whole country has ADD.

 

[Beefbisquit]

im not gonna read it, i dont care. there is no argument. case doesnt exist far as im concerned. I have the right to own a firearm, or any other self defense mechanism i see fit. dont like it? to fuckn bad. keep your mouth shut. me owning a gun doesnt impose my opinion or will on you. your trying to force me not to own one does. if you cant see the problem with that situation then there is no helping you, no amount of talking or arguing over it is going to convince either side they are wrong, and really, there IS only one right here.

You get your fukin crybaby bleeding hearts who jus think they can tell everyone else how to live because their ideas are the way it should be. they dont understand that bad shit happens to good people through out life. You can not legislate morality, or common sense. some people will flip out, and when they do, we cull them from the herd.

you anti gun people already have your utopia, its called Chicago (oh ya thats right, 15 shootings, 9 (?) dead one day into the yr.. move, jus as the people there that are bitching about what they are doing, dont like it? move. vote with your feet people.

If you havent seen this maybe you should, ya some of it sounds radical, but if you dont understand the necessity of it. there is no helping you. and you would have been completely happy living under Stalin, Hitler, or any host of twisted personality.... oh wait, you are happy living under a twisted personality.... we arent far away...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL63OFIdIIM

frikn board is hit or miss lately with adding videos...

The article has nothing to do with anything you said. You're arguing with yourself about... nothing.

Not only does the article advocate gun use, it argues that in some cases more guns would help the situation, not detract from it.

If you knew what you were talking about, or what the article says, you might make more sense, instead of posting a weird diatribe that has nothing to do with the OP, or virtually anything said within the thread.

[video=youtube_share;0MRmxfLuNto]http://youtu.be/0MRmxfLuNto[/video]

 

[unohu69]

Hahaha ya that very well maybe, im jus tired of all the frikn gun threads. you know what i mean? none of them prove anything and its just the same shit back n forth. even the MSM news have stopped rollin the story really. they know we have a 2 week attention span. thats all a news story is good for nowadays. and what i said applies to everything in life. and could technically be posted in any forum on any topic. the core of the msg is whats important, stay the fuck out of my business and ill stay outta yours..

dont start no shit, wont be no shit

seems everyday im amazed at the stupidity of the human race as a overall stat.



sorry bout maybe going off topic, but I do that. and I jus happened to pick this thread to do it in.. coulda been any of them..


the intelligent people are gonna read what I said, pack a bowl, and say meh, hes right.....

and really, you all should still watch the video...





* Hmnn, ok downed a bowl of some skunky pheno DP blueberry (didnt get a nice blueberry flavored one)

really wasnt tryin to start shit, im actually a very passive guy, but im not one to take orders from anyone, as i dont give them. and the very notion of someone trying to force me to bow before them is completely appalling to me. Americas people have lost the very values that made our land awesome. Sure some of us have them, but not the majority.

 

[desert dude]

I wrote a paper on the subject of gun laws and violence in America in college. I'm pro second amendment. But people really decided to bash me because I didn't propagate lies. When you look at the statistics of gun violence in correlation with gun laws you'll find makes no difference, poverty is the main reason for gun violence and that's it. The book by John Lott Jr might have the worst statistical analysis of any "factual" book ever written, actually there is no analysis John Lott just decided to use correlations without sufficient research to support his political agenda. Even the graphs in the book are lies! He used DC to prove his point yet, the facts that 9 out of the top 10 states with the most gun violence have the most free gun laws, or that gun violence has been decreasing since before the pro gun legislation ever went into affect are not in his book. Lott was on some call-in-show and after 20 minutes of waiting, I basically told Lott and Hannity or whomever it was, that "for every statistic in the book I could name 10 that supported the opposite" and that "the statistics mentioned didn't take into account drug droughts, jobless rate, gang wars, etc.. Well, obviously they didn't take me up on my offer and I was hung up on after 2 sentences.

Skunk, have you read the book titled, "Arming America" by Michale Bellesiles? It really tells it like it is. The gun nuts hate it.

 

[desert dude]

Senate testimony from Dr Suzanna Gratia, survivor of the Lube's cafe massacre. Her mother and father were both murdered at Lube's cafe but she was able to escape.

"what the second amendment is really for"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCegKb55AGI

 

[str8sativa]

There is no civilian force capable of overthrowing the most powerful, technologically advanced Military in the world. Sorry.

Aircraft carriers?
Battlehsips?
Drones?
Tanks?
Nukes?
Jet Fighters?
Cruise Missiles?

Seriously, what are you planning to overthrow because you lost your chance at about... ohh.....WWII?

your an idiot..... of course some people with some guns cant take down our military might, cause we would just nuke ourselves AMERICA FUCK YEAHH!!!!!! and even if we had an armed guerrilla war we wouldnt be shooting cruise missles and carpet bombing the cities and killing everyone. and your funny if you think our soldiers who our family and friends and neighbors would listen to obama most of them dont even like him and im sure would defect in a second as soon as there home town was bombed and there family was killed. the soldiers took an oath to uphold the constitution not the government.

everyone knows you cant kill an elephant with a bb gun.

and i know for a fact my friends wouldnt shoot me even if those were the orders. you saw how fast the syrian army defected and the whole nation rose against assad even with him shelling civilian neighborhoods and using fighter planes. for every innocent person killed just made 50 more join the fight.

 

[spandy]

How are they gonna disarm me after a boating accident that I lose ALL my firearms in? Damn, guess I'll just have to fill that paper work out every year sent from the sheriff saying "nope, never found them, sorry, go fuck yourself."

Send the military, lets see if our sons and daughters can fire upon their own mothers and fathers. I have faith that if shit really hit the fan, more would show loyalty to the people they protect than to their commander in chief.

 

[desert dude]

There is no civilian force capable of overthrowing the most powerful, technologically advanced Military in the world. Sorry.

Aircraft carriers?
Battlehsips?
Drones?
Tanks?
Nukes?
Jet Fighters?
Cruise Missiles?

Seriously, what are you planning to overthrow because you lost your chance at about... ohh.....WWII?

So what?

Seriously, how does your interpretation of the prospects of success by a civilian uprising against the US federal government alter the constitutions authors' reason for writing the second amendment? Even if your analysis is correct, it has absolutely no relevance to why the second amendment was written.

 

[unohu69]

Live Free or Die, is not just a motto, for some of us it is a core of our being that can not be squashed...

it is all about self governance, responsible people know what it entails and can handle that.

 

[cannabineer]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/pro-gun-states-lead-the-nation-in-per-capita-firearm-death-rates-57514947.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/11/20-deadliest-gun-states-from-mississippi-to-arizona.html

These are some links. There is also a .gov site that has the information.

The first one was "gun deaths", which is doistinct from "gun violence". Most of those deaths will have been suicide and thus not counted as violence, which needs an assailant. cn

 

[desert dude]

Yes, everyone has the right to defend themselves. However, the right to defend yourself could mean any number of countless things to any number of countless people. There needs to be some form of responsibility assumed by people who wish to own guns.

So, somewhere in between completely unfettered access to any type of firearm, and complete restriction to all firearms, there's probably a solution that works better than the one in place now.

The thing is, no one is willing to change their perspective in the slightest.

The fact that deaths caused by guns has declined to a forty year low, while gun ownership has soared pretty much proves that people who own guns ARE responsible.

The solution is to get tougher on Marijuana use. We need mandatory minimums for marijuana possession. I suggest three years for possession of an ounce or less, but I am open to reasonable counter proposals.

As long as we are proposing useless laws that do nothing to solve the problem at hand and serve only to abridge the freedoms of Americans, let's go full retard. Are you with me?

 

[desert dude]

This is a rather simplistic view of a country where government can and does influence the average citizen in ways we cannot comprehend even if we wish to.

It is not at all hard in our PR capable society to turn one segment of the population on another. We see that in many movies where ordinary folk are asked to turn on their tvs and watch "deserving" criminals attempt to escape. "look our your doors, look out your windows and call us with what you see - there, or over there, is the hideous man who killed 12 police officers in cold blood, you saw it with your own eyes". Never mind the truth, that the running man was killing in self defense, that he is simply trying to win money for his ailing child and that the game is rigged from the start - rigged in order to keep the population in line by lauding them as law abiding citizens and all others as the enemy.


Not hard at all to show shorts of bearded beer drinking militia staging mock defensive maneuvers while telling honest citizens that they are flaunting the law.

You seem to believe that these millions are well trained, well organized, communicate well with some unnamed central command and have all the time in the world to gain whatever objective they wish.

And what might that ultimate objective be? What is their goal? it is easy to say "to overthrow the current government" but what does that actually mean, what will signal their success and what will they put in place of the newly overthrown government?

It is a wonderful, heartening, and noble idea but it has no real meaning any more, the time when we as citizens might have overthrown our government is long past. The power remains with a people only if they know full well that their guns will not alter things, when they are fully aware that they must use other means to accomplish their ends.

You can be the PR guy working for the federation, the "Baghdad Bob" in DC.

 

[Mindmelted]

There is no fucking riddle.

The last so called assault weapons ban did nothing at all.

Just another fairy tale that makes people think they are safe.

 

[cannabineer]

To say that our forefathers couldn't imagine a world which one needs a gun to defend oneself from another is wrong. The forefathers talked about scenarios of all kinds when debating constitutional rights. Debating "freedom of Religion" they did understand muslims, hindus, atheists and Jews could and would eventually move to America.

But if you look, what I said was that I found it hard to believe that the founders would envision a world in which the right to self-defense would be challenged. cn

 

[Mindmelted]

There is no civilian force capable of overthrowing the most powerful, technologically advanced Military in the world. Sorry.

Aircraft carriers?
Battlehsips?
Drones?
Tanks?
Nukes?
Jet Fighters?
Cruise Missiles?

Seriously, what are you planning to overthrow because you lost your chance at about... ohh.....WWII?

That's what Russia thought also when they tried to take over Afghanistan!

What the fuck happened there?

 

[desert dude]

To say that our forefathers couldn't imagine a world which one needs a gun to defend oneself from another is wrong. The forefathers talked about scenarios of all kinds when debating constitutional rights. Debating "freedom of Religion" they did understand muslims, hindus, atheists and Jews could and would eventually move to America.

Go back and carefully read the sentence you are criticizing. After comprehension, you will want to edit your response.

 

[woody333333]

That's what Russia thought also when they tried to take over Afghanistan!

What the fuck happened there?

didnt rambo go help them?