Time to reject the Malthusian notion that our lives must be justified by drudgery.

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
abandonconflict said:
So since greed can create a surplus, we should accept it and let them keep it, and continue to uphold it?

Why even create any surplus? Fuck John Locke.
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I think we accept greed the same way we accept relational heartbreak. It sucks, but what is the alternative? Greed in the broadest sense is the only known engine of production. A valley of farmers will produce a surplus under one of two conditions: either because they can sell it, or because it was imposed by a despot out of his greed.
But finding a way to co-opt an entire society into production without expecting reward commensurate to the produced ... it hasn't happened yet.

Another conceptual difficulty with communism (small c) is that it doesn't admit the continuum between need and greed. There can be no moral objection to meeting one's and one's clan's needs. But any line drawn between Enough and Too Much is arbitrary. You'd need a startling coordination of purpose and judgment in order to get a large group to accept one standard for that line without ongoing contest. Jmo. cn
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
So since greed can create a surplus, we should accept it and let them keep it, and continue to uphold it?

Why even create any surplus? Fuck John Locke.
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Rainy days of all kinds, feeding the needy, stabilizing the Sea Lane commerce.... You have Rage against the machine. Fine. It helps us think.

But, what you call greed, I call attainment....self interest. Yes, it is the only thing that builds surplus. Get some.

And I tell you this. Your worst day, in the Ivory Tower, is most people's of the Sun, dream of a lifetime. They don't need no stinkin' theory. They see your surplus and they don't see it as racism. They don't want your charity. The just want some. Surplus is our right as the people on earth. Your theory is sadly against what itself proposes. It is dead end. Get surplus and share it. Preaching is useless.

But, beware. Any govt that turns to theory, against that simple fact will plunder that surplus and make war with it. Thus, it is ever so.

Pessimism is a theory. I see realists trying to converse with you.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I think we accept greed the same way we accept relational heartbreak. It sucks, but what is the alternative? Greed in the broadest sense is the only known engine of production. A valley of farmers will produce a surplus under one of two conditions: either because they can sell it, or because it was imposed by a despot out of his greed.
But finding a way to co-opt an entire society into production without expecting reward commensurate to the produced ... it hasn't happened yet.

Another conceptual difficulty with communism (small c) is that it doesn't admit the continuum between need and greed. There can be no moral objection to meeting one's and one's clan's needs. But any line drawn between Enough and Too Much is arbitrary. You'd need a startling coordination of purpose and judgment in order to get a large group to accept one standard for that line without ongoing contest. Jmo. cn
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Yet, what is a root cellar but a place to store summer surplus food and surplus seed? Surplus is not for selling it is for safety, primarily, initially, etc.

Unfortunately, our friend here, is only thinking way far out on the spectrum of greed. Maybe Donald Trump is greedy? But, if you don't know the down and dirty of NYC construction business, you might think so. He earned it. So, GREED is just one of those dirty labels. The truly greedy are hanged for collaboration. As I said, I think war is an inevitable outcome of govt and vice versa, govt is an inevitable outcome of war.

Thus it is ever so.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
Yet, what is a root cellar but a place to store summer surplus food and surplus seed? Surplus is not for selling it is for safety, primarily, initially, etc.

Unfortunately, our friend here, is only thinking way far out on the spectrum of greed. Maybe Donald Trump is greedy? But, if you don't know the down and dirty of NYC construction business, you might think so. He earned it. So, GREED is just one of those dirty labels. The truly greedy are hanged for collaboration. As I said, I think war is an inevitable outcome of govt and vice versa, govt is an inevitable outcome of war.

Thus it is ever so.
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War is just a dirty label for organized terrorism. Government is just a dirty label for the good old boy club. Your arguments are all semantic. You have ceased to be worth my time.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
War is just a dirty label for organized terrorism. Government is just a dirty label for the good old boy club. Your arguments are all semantic.
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Oh, see, that's right. That's my point. Good old boys engaged in organized crime. I don't think railing about that, has ever made a difference. It is just semantics. What is Warlordism? Tyranny? How can you say all paths don't lead to repression, including your new way of thinking for all mankind?

What is it but Ideals? You think there is an alternative to this reality of govt thuggery and old boy racism? I do. Sure. We can think of them. Utopias. Shangri-la. Nice dream.

I like to the think of those John Lennon lyrics, myself. BTW, you always think I'm arguing with you. That *would* be a waste of time. :)
 
FOUR20 SWG

FOUR20 SWG

Active Member
Africa represents one of the last bastions of untouched potential for industry.

Who ever controls that continent and has ready access to it's resources and local markets, will take control of the Global economy in the decades and generations to come.

Which is exactly why it doesn't benefit us to cure AIDS, stop hunger, or end predatory IMF loans. We're much too busy trying to make cellphones and nicknacks affordable so that we have something to make out of their resources and then export back to them.

A strong African continent means we just have to work that much harder to reign it in down the line.

This stopped being about Right or Wrong a long time ago. It's all about $$$ and power. Story of our lives.

The people who posted above me about the inability to distinguish between Need-and-Greed on any concrete basis were spot on. As much as I love the idea of everyone being given a fairshot, there is no way to put that into practice without running into the same problems you sought to avoid in the first place.

Hopefully, the African Evo Morales will popup and mobilize all ganja farmers to become more integrated into the national identity of X-country and then who knows. We might see a strong Africa, built on the back of Cannabis! What a wonderful Fuck-You that would be to the Colonial Powers watching from a-far, spending billions on the "Drug War".
 
chewberto

chewberto

Well-Known Member
You are only justified through THEIR existence..that is the way things are, perpetually feeding our pimp government and forced to live this way only because we Allow it, and action will be necessary, but information and enlightenment inspires the action, thus it is necessary IMO.

I have also realized that in business there is a age group in which you contribute financially to the machine and past a certain age your are no longer feeding the pimp as much and you are a liability, not an asset to the corporations....shorter life created from all of the above bullshit is just a business tactic to generate more profits.... these are just my thoughts....
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
The crux of this argument, is that the system is upheld by the effort of labor, the consent of laborers, and exists at the mercy of the masses of those bound within it. it rests upon us, we do not rest upon it. When people are compelled to justify their existence "do you pay taxes?" and "in what ways do you contribute to society" are the questions of guardians of status quo.

You said all our eggs are in one basket and I agree, then the status quo is the basket and we are the eggs. The only thing keeping us in the basket is the imposed need to justify existence. Of course, that translates into physical things, like buying food and water.

Justify existence = purchase

I have the balls to hop the fuck out of this basket. Gandhi did too.
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Who is responsible for feeding the world?

What moral right do you have to confiscate the labor and services of one individual to support another individual?

You are essentially expressing the desire to enslave a population to *feed the world*

I find the whole concept evil.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Who is responsible for feeding the world?

What moral right do you have to confiscate the labor and services of one individual to support another individual?

You are essentially expressing the desire to enslave a population to *feed the world*

I find the whole concept evil.
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To the bolded, you missed the entire point of the thread.

I'm glad we both oppose wage slavery though.

You may find the concept that we feed the world evil, but why don't you find it evil that we spend ten times what it would cost to do so on military endeavors. Why don't you find it evil that feeding people would make us safer than our military does? Why don't you find it evil that the countries with the hungriest people are net exporters of food since the common people don't have money to buy the products they create? Why don't you find it evil that we are focused on the nonexistent problem of the Malthusian population bottleneck when there is a very real threat of global warming?

I find you completely evil.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Why can't Africa, feed Africa?

If the Romans could occupy it thousands of years ago, why the fuck can't the people there even get to that level?

Answer: They've gotten too used to handouts from do-gooders.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
I know, what the theorist don't get. It is that the theories have been tried and tried. Oh, but, not Globally. (lucky us) The only thing that works globally is trade. The only way trade can be conducted is to set the value on the commodity market via open bidding based on supply vs demand. Ya need coin or barter.

This is not a theory. It is what works, and it is what we have always come back to when the theories fail.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Why can't Africa, feed Africa?

If the Romans could occupy it thousands of years ago, why the fuck can't the people there even get to that level?

Answer: They've gotten too used to handouts from do-gooders.
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Well, we have been sold a bill of goods about Arabs because of Jew bashing by the Catholic Church for 2000 years. Arabs good. Jews bad.

Arabs were so smart they invented the Zero.
They invented technical Astronomy
Arabs invented Chess

This is what i was taught. All Lies to put the Jew further down. All of that invention comes from India. The Arabs and the entire Muslim world put the women in burkka and excluded 1/2 their brain pool. The better 1/2. Then they tell themselves they must regain these past heights. But, those they stole from the Hindus.

So, it is no wonder that misogynistic culture can't prevail in the modern world except through violence. Too stupid and afraid of women. Arabs are still slavers throughout Africa. Arabs sold the slaves to the West in the first place.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Why can't Africa, feed Africa?

If the Romans could occupy it thousands of years ago, why the fuck can't the people there even get to that level?

Answer: They've gotten too used to handouts from do-gooders.
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Actual answer, everytime they democratically elect a popular leader in a third world country who protect the interests of the people of said nation and attempt to use the resources of said nation providing for people of said nation, the US sends in CIA dawgs to depose. We call it freedom, but it is only freedom for corporations to exploit.
 
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