litz
Member
so what u recomend ? , wich is the way to go ? lower degree like 2 x 240 w ?
Led 240w or 500w ????
- Thread starter litz
- Start date
so what u recomend ? , wich is the way to go ? lower degree like 2 x 240 w ?
dbkick
Well-Known Member
killawatt says somewhere around 330 actual but that would be input and include fan powerwhat's the actual wattage of those BS 500?I don't remember, guessing like 250-280w....don't even expect it to beat a 400w hps....don't blame the tech later that it wouldn't give you 600w-1000w hid results.....
dbkick
Well-Known Member
That's how I roll, but truthfully you're better off just adding that much more hps. I'm using led panels mainly in veg myself. in flower there's just no way I'll use led alone again even if I bought the phatass one(which I'm not gonna do). dependability seems to be a problem with blackstars, I'm talking around 50 percent fail . some in warranty and some out.
Scotch089
Well-Known Member
If you did this you would want to get multiple panels to put on each side of the 1000w hood, two on each side, or four on all corners. One LED and one HID will give you three significantly different results in one grow.
One led dominant area (trich city), one with a mixed variation of HID and led (the sweet spot), and then HID dominant (density).
catch my drift?
Sucks to see ppl that don't have a clue on what they're doing getting screwed into a bad deal. Im telling you now, don't get the 500. Get multiple smaller panels to supplement your HIO, or invest in a big panel to replace your HID. solar storm, area 51, penetrator, etc.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
You can definitely just flower with LED, no question.
Personally I wouldn't have gotten a Blackstar unit; I already own 4. They will grow you some bud, but they're known to have dependability issues and the grossly over exaggerated their wattage claims.
1m/sq, that's just about 3.5'x3.5'. You'll want about 400-500w for an area that size. If we go by 12.25feet/sq, that's about 32-40w/sq ft; that's just about ideal.
In other words, to do the whole area by LED I'd invest in another 150w of LED power and you'll be golden.
Brand is a tough decision;
Area 51 Lighting
California Light works
FERO LED
Apache Tech LED
Plantphotonics
These are a few of the premiere boutique LED manufacturers.
Personally I wouldn't have gotten a Blackstar unit; I already own 4. They will grow you some bud, but they're known to have dependability issues and the grossly over exaggerated their wattage claims.
1m/sq, that's just about 3.5'x3.5'. You'll want about 400-500w for an area that size. If we go by 12.25feet/sq, that's about 32-40w/sq ft; that's just about ideal.
In other words, to do the whole area by LED I'd invest in another 150w of LED power and you'll be golden.
Brand is a tough decision;
Area 51 Lighting
California Light works
FERO LED
Apache Tech LED
Plantphotonics
These are a few of the premiere boutique LED manufacturers.
FranJan
Well-Known Member
See you just can't make those kind of blanket statement with LEDs IMO. If you're pushing out some umols/PAR into your grow area, you most definitely can hit 80 to 86F in your grow area and not suffer from poor growth and some of the other problems Hyroot talks about. For someone running 1 or 2 BS240s Hy is absolutely right. But you add a 500 and another 240 to that mix and you only have to worry about going over 86F really. Using excessive light to battle heat is something the HPS guys have known about for some time according to some of the books and posts I've read, but is only useful under certain circumstances. And in my observations running at 80F produced better nugs than when I ran my 2 BS240s at 76-78 degrees. They drink a bit more running at 80F in my grow tent. Now with my latest setup (2xBS240s, 1x(5x60) LED Star, and a Vipar A300), I only worry about cooling it when it hits 85F but I prefer the grow area to be around 80-82F. And for the record I'm talking about immediate grow area/top of the canopy temps. The area around the grow I keep at, (or try to) at 78-80F and will turn off lights at 82F.
Not trying to pick a fight with you or single you out Hyroot, it's just that I've been seeing a lot of blanket statements when it comes to LED growing around the forum lately and just feel the need to remind people not to be too set in their observations with these amazing little lights that are a disruptive, rule-changing technology. And that goes for me too! Peace and Happy Growing Hyroot!
Hey there Litz, just do yourself a favor and keep reading and studying so you make the right choice. Otherwise buy a BS240 or 2, or something from the companies that Beef suggested, and come on in. The water's fine
.I think this is some good advice. Use the LED lights for supplemental lighting for now and you can always add more lighting later. You have a pretty full spectrum light with the HPS, maybe you should look at LEDs to push the spectrum "edges" - royal blue for veg and plenty of 630 and 660 nm for flower to go with it. I'm growing with Kessil and fluorescent lighting now and having good luck. You can always do what I did...start with one Kessil, add a couple more and then a spectral spinner and you've got a pretty powerful LED lighting system that you added to incrementally. I don't have it but several people have had good results with Hans's panel- http://www.bonsaihero.com/ledgrow.html.
Oghazybread
Member
I use 3 blackstar 240w to cover a 4x4. It works great, I added some 150w (40W) 2600k cfls inbetween each led. Just for that added spectrum. It works great, compared to my 400w, im able to cover more area.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
See you just can't make those kind of blanket statement with LEDs IMO. If you're pushing out some umols/PAR into your grow area, you most definitely can hit 80 to 86F in your grow area and not suffer from poor growth and some of the other problems Hyroot talks about. For someone running 1 or 2 BS240s Hy is absolutely right. But you add a 500 and another 240 to that mix and you only have to worry about going over 86F really. Using excessive light to battle heat is something the HPS guys have known about for some time according to some of the books and posts I've read, but is only useful under certain circumstances. And in my observations running at 80F produced better nugs than when I ran my 2 BS240s at 76-78 degrees. They drink a bit more running at 80F in my grow tent. Now with my latest setup (2xBS240s, 1x(5x60) LED Star, and a Vipar A300), I only worry about cooling it when it hits 85F but I prefer the grow area to be around 80-82F. And for the record I'm talking about immediate grow area/top of the canopy temps. The area around the grow I keep at, (or try to) at 78-80F and will turn off lights at 82F.
Not trying to pick a fight with you or single you out Hyroot, it's just that I've been seeing a lot of blanket statements when it comes to LED growing around the forum lately and just feel the need to remind people not to be too set in their observations with these amazing little lights that are a disruptive, rule-changing technology. And that goes for me too! Peace and Happy Growing Hyroot!
Hey there Litz, just do yourself a favor and keep reading and studying so you make the right choice. Otherwise buy a BS240 or 2, or something from the companies that Beef suggested, and come on in. The water's fine
My tent runs at 71-77f (22-25c) during the day, and 61-66f (16-19c) at night.
They dig it....
FranJan
Well-Known Member
^^^There you go. Can't argue with results. Still I wonder if you did run it hotter would you see better, worse, or the same results over time? Guess you know your room best. Probably the strain is also such a huge factor in discovering what's the best temp for LEDs, it's the reason people differ in opinion on temp. Maybe all LED growers should make a pledge to have at least one Skunk #1 going at all time, so after a while we can all agree on a basic temp. Probably be 78F! LOL
hyroot
Well-Known Member
^^^^^ I think that can be strain dependent. My master kushes like 78 or 79. But all my others prefers much cooler temps. If you run co2. Plants can withstand 10 degrees hotter than normal. I myself I bring in outside air via inlne fan. It blows air right over the canopy. Its been a steady 77, 78 degrees. Everything is very happy.
Evo8Emperor
Well-Known Member
Ok so I have been reading and trying to figure out what my LED really compares to. I picked it up off a buddy for some cheap money so either way I am happy with it and how it has vegged plants anyway so far.
It seems like its a strong light because I have had it too close and bleached the leaves. From what I gather it is the older gen. 1 watt LED style. Its 288 x 1w LED's. Just blue and red also.
Anyone have any idea's ? I think it was called a Sun Shine System's ?
It seems like its a strong light because I have had it too close and bleached the leaves. From what I gather it is the older gen. 1 watt LED style. Its 288 x 1w LED's. Just blue and red also.
Anyone have any idea's ? I think it was called a Sun Shine System's ?
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Cause I'm a sick DIYer ..
In your case I would take out all the blues and most of the reds ....
I would replace the whole unit with one watters whites ...
Say ....
174 Warm Whites 2500-2700 K ....
57 Reds
and
57 Neutral whites 5000-5500 K ...
Way better spectral config there ....
..
Or for a more production-wise (during flowering ) panel :
192 x WW
48 x reds
48 x NW ....
But if it works for you(just in veg ...) ....Leave it ,as is ....
zDunno ,really ,what kind of panel is ...
But sounds interesting " base " for some DIY experimenting ....
(Although it may needs new drivers ,also,apart from new leds ... )
...
One watters are great leds for plants ...
You just need many of them ....
288 pcs are rather many ....
...
( hope they are without added lenses,also ) ..
...
( -Take a look what 192 one-watters can do ,pretty easy ...)
....
Oh ...I wish I had it ,right now in my ...lap .....
In few hours ,it would have been ready for work .....
Into new tasks .....
Blooming ones ....
Evo8Emperor
Well-Known Member
So what kind of info would you need ? I can get the site I'm sure. I have the brand it is and there's some info on the led itself.
After doing some reading seeing as I'm new with the led I have found that the intense red isn't good for younger plants and it's seem to be showing right now for me. While I had some bigger plants vegging under it that where great. Just not for little ones even with it like 2ft above them.
I am pretty proficient with my hands and anything else I put my mind to just would need to get some ideas as to what I would need to do besides pull it apart like a jackass and try and figure it out as i go. lol.
Edit:
The panel is mainly all red to. So not to many blues I would have to take out. I'm guessing it would be mainly all the red. lol. Ill get a picture.
After doing some reading seeing as I'm new with the led I have found that the intense red isn't good for younger plants and it's seem to be showing right now for me. While I had some bigger plants vegging under it that where great. Just not for little ones even with it like 2ft above them.
I am pretty proficient with my hands and anything else I put my mind to just would need to get some ideas as to what I would need to do besides pull it apart like a jackass and try and figure it out as i go. lol.
Edit:
The panel is mainly all red to. So not to many blues I would have to take out. I'm guessing it would be mainly all the red. lol. Ill get a picture.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well ....
Split the whole concept in parts ,for starters ....
-Cooling :fans -heatsinks -thermal paste -ect .Check and replace with new / better ones if easy or cheap or if needed so ...
-Driving :Summing up new leds overall Forward voltage drop ...Maybe that leds are divided in "modules " per say 96 ..or so ...
Re-design driving and aquire new drivers, if needed so ...
-Leds : design new spectral balance ....
WW are the best way to go regarding yellow /amber/reds and far reds & some blue 455-460 nm ,all in one led ....
Need many-many of them ....Spread as evenly ,as possible ,on the panel ....
...NWs will give 445-450 blue and green and yellows ...No need for many of them ( stay at WW : NW =4:1 )
...Reds can be same number as NW ....
( all reds are good -for this case -,but better -my opinion - are the 640 nm ones ..
They cover the "needs " of both chlorophylls ..ChA=662 nm red peak - ChB= 642 nm red peak .
Probably the panel has 620-640 nm reds ...leave some of them ....Try as apart(far ..) as possible ..
-not in "groups " ...)..
Other : case check and maintaince ,you can add a temp sensor-display kit , better hanging mechanism-if needed ,
different channel control per led groups ,dimming ,ect ....
Well ..
That's a start ....
Use your imagination ...
Study a bit about leds ,before doing anything ...
But ,know this ..
It is worth ,doing it ...
It would end up a total different panel ...
Way better ...