Gun Control in Judge Dredd realistic?

[Padawanbater2]

At first glance, this seems still in the realm of sci-fi, but I thought it was interesting

Is there any way to tag each bullet fired with the users information?

In the movie, before each round is fired from the Judges weapon, a ring goes around each bullet, based on the users DNA from touching the hand grip which can be recovered from the target. Bullets fragment and become deformed upon impact, I was wondering if there's any metal alloys that can withstand those kinds of forces, enough to where information can still be read/scanned from a recovered bullet?

Like a fingerprint, each person has their own signature, so when a bullet is recovered from a crime scene, the suspect is already identified.

Would you support something like this? Why/why not?

 

[UncleBuck]

no, that is not realistic.

 

[mike.hotel]

There are developments for 'smart bullets' but not in the same sense as you are describing.

 

[spandy]

Even Judge Dredd caught a bad rap on a supposed perfect system. Just think how bad we'd fuck that up in real life.

 

[Dr Kynes]

At first glance, this seems still in the realm of sci-fi, but I thought it was interesting

Is there any way to tag each bullet fired with the users information?

In the movie, before each round is fired from the Judges weapon, a ring goes around each bullet, based on the users DNA from touching the hand grip which can be recovered from the target. Bullets fragment and become deformed upon impact, I was wondering if there's any metal alloys that can withstand those kinds of forces, enough to where information can still be read/scanned from a recovered bullet?

Like a fingerprint, each person has their own signature, so when a bullet is recovered from a crime scene, the suspect is already identified.

Would you support something like this? Why/why not?

any component to track bullets would have to hold shitloads of data tp make it useful, and this means the forces of firing, much less hitting the target would destroy the data
Ted "Chapaquidick" Kennedy had a silly proposal to mark ever bullet made with a serial number, fortunately, the number of bullets made each year would require every .22 shot at a tin can to be attached to a 5 foot long streamer just to accommodate the serial number. how you convince the criminal element to not remove that serial number is a mystery. anything you put on a bullet can be removed, making the proposal not only ludicrous on it's face, but a display of the utter ignorance which the left celebrates in all things.

further, those who make their own ammunition (like myself) would have no difficulty casting their own bullets. in any of the ridiculous schemes to eliminate our right to keep our means of self-defense, the ingenuity of the people must be eliminated first. beofre any such plot can succeed they'll have to disable our brains, but perhaps that sheds light on the existence of The Jersey Shore and TMZ.

 

[fb360]

Not effective in the means you describe it, but they do this already essentially. They can take the shot markings and compare them with another bullet shot from that firearm. What they need is a better way to compare markings of bullets to a database of their correlating firearm. However even that has it's down falls; the firearm barrel can always be modified slightly to give different markings, etc etc.

I think Dr Kynes comment of how the bullet would need a 5 foot streamer to id it is telling; there are soo many projectiles sold each year, the thought of even capturing and storing that data is absurd.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Not effective in the means you describe it, but they do this already essentially. They can take the shot markings and compare them with another bullet shot from that firearm. What they need is a better way to compare markings of bullets to a database of their correlating firearm. However even that has it's down falls; the firearm barrel can always be modified slightly to give different markings, etc etc.

I think Dr Kynes comment of how the bullet would need a 5 foot streamer to id it is telling; there are soo many projectiles sold each year, the thought of even capturing and storing that data is absurd.

more importantly, the chamber/barrel assembly and the bolt face/firing pin are the only ballistically significant features, and each of those components are replaceable and untracked.

only receivers have serial numbers, or count as a "gun"

if i ever have to use any of my guns in a crime, i not only know how to replace the only components that can be compared to the bullet, but i can do it in minutes.

for example, on my Sig Sauer P226 semi automatic pistol:

lock slide in rear position, turn Takedown Lever clockwise 90 degrees. depress slide release catch and ease slide forward and off the frame. remove recoil spring and lift out barrel. insert new barrel ($175) reverse steps to re-assemble.

after that, a quick cleaning and polishing and my gun no longer has any relation to the "murder weapon" and the old barrel can be disposed of in any manner you choose.

hell i can even switch calibers to .357 sig 9mm or .380 auto

on my .22 pocket pistol the procedure is easier faster and even cheaper at around $35 for a new barrel.

most criminals get caught because they are DUMB, so dumb they always assume they wont be caught. the real smart ones cant be busted unles they get very unlucky or somebody squimps them out.

 

[doowmd]

At first glance, this seems still in the realm of sci-fi, but I thought it was interesting

Is there any way to tag each bullet fired with the users information?

In the movie, before each round is fired from the Judges weapon, a ring goes around each bullet, based on the users DNA from touching the hand grip which can be recovered from the target. Bullets fragment and become deformed upon impact, I was wondering if there's any metal alloys that can withstand those kinds of forces, enough to where information can still be read/scanned from a recovered bullet?

Like a fingerprint, each person has their own signature, so when a bullet is recovered from a crime scene, the suspect is already identified.

Would you support something like this? Why/why not?

But Judge Dredd was framed when someone used his gun so it seems to go w/o saying that this would b the main deterrent to using this method?

Even Judge Dredd caught a bad rap on a supposed perfect system. Just think how bad we'd fuck that up in real life.

Beat me too it^^^ lol

no, that is not realistic.

BUT we don't have to be sooooo dismissive Buck, its possible, just not feasible......

 

[Dr Kynes]

BUT we don't have to be sooooo dismissive Buck, its possible, just not feasible......

i would argue it is IMPOSSIBLE without first enacting gun control measures so draconian that the idea itself would be moot.

if we have such strict control over guns that such a program becomes feasible, who gives a shit if the plebs have bullets?

what they gonna do? throw them at each other?

 

[Meowlistenhere]

more importantly, the chamber/barrel assembly and the bolt face/firing pin are the only ballistically significant features, and each of those components are replaceable and untracked.

only receivers have serial numbers, or count as a "gun"

if i ever have to use any of my guns in a crime, i not only know how to replace the only components that can be compared to the bullet, but i can do it in minutes.

for example, on my Sig Sauer P226 semi automatic pistol:

lock slide in rear position, turn Takedown Lever clockwise 90 degrees. depress slide release catch and ease slide forward and off the frame. remove recoil spring and lift out barrel. insert new barrel ($175) reverse steps to re-assemble.

after that, a quick cleaning and polishing and my gun no longer has any relation to the "murder weapon" and the old barrel can be disposed of in any manner you choose.

hell i can even switch calibers to .357 sig 9mm or .380 auto

on my .22 pocket pistol the procedure is easier faster and even cheaper at around $35 for a new barrel.

most criminals get caught because they are DUMB, so dumb they always assume they wont be caught. the real smart ones cant be busted unles they get very unlucky or somebody squimps them out.

I agree. I just recently bought a new p345, and it came with a spent shell that i guess in some states or counties the dealer is required to turn in that spent shell to the local law enforcement agency, along with the serial number and owners information. The dent in the primer is unique to that firing pin. So if it was stolen and used by someone else it could be tracked with any of the spent shells that were left behind at the scene of the crime. But your right, someone who knows what they are doing could easily switch out the pin and barrel. But like you said, most criminals are too stupid to even think of that.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I agree. I just recently bought a new p345, and it came with a spent shell that i guess in some states or counties the dealer is required to turn in that spent shell to the local law enforcement agency, along with the serial number and owners information. The dent in the primer is unique to that firing pin. So if it was stolen and used by someone else it could be tracked with any of the spent shells that were left behind at the scene of the crime. But your right, someone who knows what they are doing could easily switch out the pin and barrel. But like you said, most criminals are too stupid to even think of that. Your idea of "biometrics" on firearms though i disagree with. Ridiculous! Not a step in the right direction.

that spent shell is a "Proof", the gunsmiths evidence that the gun is safe enough for him to fire it himself. it used to be a tradition when guns were made by craftsmen.

there is no requirement in the US that a sample round be fired before delivery of the weapon, and even in such countries where a database of ballistic samples is kept (like ireland for example) the spent casing and the bullet are both retained, as the the chamber, bolt face, firing pin, and extractor all leave their distinct markings on the casing.

these databases have to my knowledge NEVER helped catch a criminal, and every one of the ballisitic markers can be easily, and legally altered, rendering the database useless.

in the US the only ballistic databases kept are the ones from arms recovered at crime scenes, issues to law enforcement or otherwise brought under official scrutiny, and one for bullets recovered from crime scenes.

there really is no general sample database since anyone who knows dick about guns would be able to render that database useless, and even normal wear from use will change the markers naturally.

the only thing i would consider even faintly realistic for tracking arms would be a copy of the serial numbers incised Inside The Firing Chamber to stamp the serial number on the spend casing during case expansion.

even that would be largely a political stunt, since casing matches dont really prove shit. my house contains THOUSANDS of spent shells, and a surprising dearth of corpses, and most homicide scenes have an abundance of bodies, and NO spent shells.

 

[Meowlistenhere]

that spent shell is a "Proof", the gunsmiths evidence that the gun is safe enough for him to fire it himself. it used to be a tradition when guns were made by craftsmen.

there is no requirement in the US that a sample round be fired before delivery of the weapon, and even in such countries where a database of ballistic samples is kept (like ireland for example) the spent casing and the bullet are both retained, as the the chamber, bolt face, firing pin, and extractor all leave their distinct markings on the casing.

these databases have to my knowledge NEVER helped catch a criminal, and every one of the ballisitic markers can be easily, and legally altered, rendering the database useless.

in the US the only ballistic databases kept are the ones from arms recovered at crime scenes, issues to law enforcement or otherwise brought under official scrutiny, and one for bullets recovered from crime scenes.

there really is no general sample database since anyone who knows dick about guns would be able to render that database useless, and even normal wear from use will change the markers naturally.

the only thing i would consider even faintly realistic for tracking arms would be a copy of the serial numbers incised Inside The Firing Chamber to stamp the serial number on the spend casing during case expansion.

even that would be largely a political stunt, since casing matches dont really prove shit. my house contains THOUSANDS of spent shells, and a surprising dearth of corpses, and most homicide scenes have an abundance of bodies, and NO spent shells.

I have seen many homicide scenes where there is spent shells all over the street or wherever. Not many criminals run around trying to find and gather all the shells that are spread all over the street afterwards. And most do not use revolvers. That is if we are talking about idiot gang wars , drive by's or just the typical ghetto shootings. I understand what you are saying though, and that's interesting about not having to turn in a factory spent. That was the first time i purchased a new gun that had a little brown envelope with the shell in it, and a paper stapled to it that said "some local law enforcement may require you or the dealer to turn in the shell and purchaser information bla bla bla check with your local bla bla". And the dealer actually informed me somewhat that yes, in some areas you are required to. I just tossed it in the garbage and it never crossed my mind again. I believe you, and i know the factory test round is common. That's why it surprised me, first time ever seeing that or having a dealer actually inform me about it. But i guess he's full of shit. lol

 

[Dr Kynes]

I have seen many homicide scenes where there is spent shells all over the street or wherever. Not many criminals run around trying to find and gather all the shells that are spread all over the street afterwards. And most do not use revolvers. That is if we are talking about idiot gang wars , drive by's or just the typical ghetto shootings. I understand what you are saying though, and that's interesting about not having to turn in a factory spent. That was the first time i purchased a new gun that had a little brown envelope with the shell in it, and a paper stapled to it that said "some local law enforcement may require you or the dealer to turn in the shell and purchaser information bla bla bla check with your local bla bla". And the dealer actually informed me somewhat that yes, in some areas you are required to. I just tossed it in the garbage and it never crossed my mind again. I believe you, and i know the factory test round is common. That's why it surprised me, first time ever seeing that or having a dealer actually inform me about it. But i guess he's full of shit. lol

ohh it's true though, most homicide investigations never even see a spent shell casing.

vehicle crashes, poisonings, drownings, stabbings, heavy sack beatings (unless the sack was full of spent shells...) falls, hangings, strangulation, beatdowns, broken bottle slashings, crossbow murders, spear killings, and those unfortunates who "resisting arrest" themselves to death in holding cells completely lack shell casing evidence.

shootings make up about 30% of homicides, leaving 70% with no guns involved.

if i learned anything from CSI (and i didnt...) it's that nefarious GUN is the key to catching the killer, that and quick cutaways to slow motion expository scenes filmed from the bullet's point of view and stunning leaps of illogic by photogenic and heavily armed forensic lab technicians who pretty much do all the crime fighting...

so iu guess we need criminals to use guns MORE often, since the firearm evidence is the achilles heel of even the finest criminal plot.