|FCG|Frank
Active Member
Jesus Christ it smells like skunk when you open the tent.
How is it possible they smell so early???? I thought it was only in flower!
How is it possible they smell so early???? I thought it was only in flower!
|FCG|Frank's 1st Grow: Kali Mist | LED, CO2 & all the love they need
- Thread starter |FCG|Frank
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Endur0xX
Well-Known Member
or in your head
|FCG|Frank
Active Member
mwaha 
It definitely smells like something weird.
Could I have mold?
It definitely smells like something weird.
Could I have mold?
|FCG|Frank
Active Member
I finally installed my light rail today!
I got it last week but I dreaded installing it since I feared it might be complex. Turns out it was ridiculously easy. Cost about 25$ in parts at Home Depot and took maybe 20 minutes to install. I included pics on how I mounted it in case anyone is interested.
This was an impulse purchase one night while I was vaped and reading Ed Rosenthal's book. Here's the chapter on Light Movers:
Who knows if a light rail really can increase yield by 10-20%. I figured for the cost involved it was worth trying.
I bought the rail directly from the manufacturer at www.lightrail3.com
I sent them a simple e-mail and included my contact information, a rep called me within a few hours to answer my one question directly. After placing my order, it shipped the next business day and arrived well packaged in pristine condition. A+ customer service from the folks Gualala Robotics!
I got it last week but I dreaded installing it since I feared it might be complex. Turns out it was ridiculously easy. Cost about 25$ in parts at Home Depot and took maybe 20 minutes to install. I included pics on how I mounted it in case anyone is interested.
This was an impulse purchase one night while I was vaped and reading Ed Rosenthal's book. Here's the chapter on Light Movers:
Who knows if a light rail really can increase yield by 10-20%. I figured for the cost involved it was worth trying.
I bought the rail directly from the manufacturer at www.lightrail3.com
I sent them a simple e-mail and included my contact information, a rep called me within a few hours to answer my one question directly. After placing my order, it shipped the next business day and arrived well packaged in pristine condition. A+ customer service from the folks Gualala Robotics!
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
Hey frank love what you are doing so far. I am into my third harvest with LEDs that I bought from local shops that are some small no name manufacturers. My 300w panel with UVb diodes had three rows go out at the end of my last grow, pretty sure its a bad solder I am not good with that though so I am just gonna deal with it, I find myself rambling right now... I was just curious if you could post convo you had with the ceo of inda gro about the u/moles of par if you can not find it its cool just wanted to know before I drop close to a paycheck on a light that . I had not heard 200+u/moles... that is disappointing since efdl was my next lighting option I was looking at from led since it was the new kid on the block and I am looking to upgrade.
Stupid question but do you have that ar-51 90 running above while you take those pics? I don't see any purple so I didn't think so just had to ask. I have liked my panels but have now looked at getting some ar-51's and was wondering how you like them for the money? It seems like I have to keep mine much closer than they talk about on their site but I have never used something like their product... I wanted to get 2 inda gro 420pros to go with the only good 300w panel I have and my 3 90w w/ uvb in my 4x6 flower tent. For the money of those though I could get 2 ar-51 240s for about the same with the sale they have now and I know I like leds. Just looking for a little guidance from a fellow newcomer in this proganda ridden world we live in since you have obviously dropped some serious coin on your setup as I am looking to do but I can not seem to find a credible source of information... Happy burnin
Stupid question but do you have that ar-51 90 running above while you take those pics? I don't see any purple so I didn't think so just had to ask. I have liked my panels but have now looked at getting some ar-51's and was wondering how you like them for the money? It seems like I have to keep mine much closer than they talk about on their site but I have never used something like their product... I wanted to get 2 inda gro 420pros to go with the only good 300w panel I have and my 3 90w w/ uvb in my 4x6 flower tent. For the money of those though I could get 2 ar-51 240s for about the same with the sale they have now and I know I like leds. Just looking for a little guidance from a fellow newcomer in this proganda ridden world we live in since you have obviously dropped some serious coin on your setup as I am looking to do but I can not seem to find a credible source of information... Happy burnin
flaxseedoil1000
Well-Known Member
Think I'm caught up.
Thx 4 taking the time on this Frank.
How much is electricity where you're at?
Down here we have 5 tiers, tier 5 is .32 kWh.
Word is it's going up soon too.
Oh, thx 4 posting that PAR doc from CL, never saw that on their site.
tia
Thx 4 taking the time on this Frank.
How much is electricity where you're at?
Down here we have 5 tiers, tier 5 is .32 kWh.
Word is it's going up soon too.
Oh, thx 4 posting that PAR doc from CL, never saw that on their site.
tia
chazbolin
Well-Known Member
Hey Frank. This is a really nice garden you're putting up. It's fun to watch and I'm looking forward to seeing your results. I think you're on the right track by adding the light rail as that should help a lot in terms of evening out distribution.
I have been seeing you reference the PAR output of the Inda-Gro lights and I wanted to point out to get the 200uMole output you were told during a phone conversation you had with Inda-Gro would have been their response to a question regarding the average uMole value from a stationary mounted 420 series light over the recommended area of coverage (5 x 5) during the vegetative phase at the recommended 36" lamp:canopy spacing. That 200uMole is in fact the average reading over the entire 5 x 5 area. You'll see in most journals that the veg cycles do quite nicely even at the outside edges on a 5 x 5 with that recommended 36" lamp to canopy spacing. Mounting the 420 series on light rails will also enhance the area of coverage. Had you asked the values at a median mounting height (18" lamp:canopy spacing) it would have been stated at an average of 600uMoles over a 1.1Msq area (due to the aspect ratio of the fixture being longer than wider).
To graphically illustrate this point here is an on line gallery that shows a 6 x 10 room where 2 of the 420 series lights have been installed. As an aside I think it's great you're using Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Growers Handbook as a reference for your garden. Check out all the images in this gallery and you'll see Uncle Ed, who BTW runs the 420's, talking shop with Jeo in this very garden as well as other images that show lamp:canopy spacing on the broccoli at over 5 feet and a Day 34 uMole measurement at 12" reading over 1160uMoles.
https://picasaweb.google.com/117165142682869295633/InHouseGarden2#5837849296193060514
On the lower wattage 100 watt lamp, like the one PSUAGRO has been using, we can see an 852 uMole reading taken at what looks to be maybe 8" from the lamp. What's worth noting here in this gallery is that you'll see the egg plant is thriving in all phases of it's veg-flower growth on just a single lamp that has been running for over 2 years without replacement.
https://picasaweb.google.com/117165142682869295633/MiscGardens#5836285797038767538
What finally tipped the scale and caused the restock charge to be implemented was when a new dealer got set up in Ohio who on their first order purchased 3 of the 420's and while the order was en route canceled it so that Inda-Gro would get stuck with the shipping charges. To make matters worse this new dealer simultaneously lodged a complaint with their credit card company that it was an unauthorized charge. The complaint lacked merit since Inda-Gro refunds returns on the same day they receive the merchandise back and had received written authorization for the original purchase. The dealer was subsequently dropped from Inda-Gro but they soon went on to carry another induction line which is, from what I was told, using two lamps, one for veg and one for flower which have been patented for indoor gardening, are manufactured locally and provides them with what has been described as 'greater margins'. Probably this is all just a coincidence in that this other manufacturer was only discovered while their first Inda-Gro order was being shipped to them.
The 25% restock is an unfortunate result of those types of ridiculous black op tactics. To those that would wish to change an order however that 25% restock fee is offered as a credit to another purchase or may be waived entirely on a case by case basis and at their sole discretion.
I didn't mean to hijack your thread and I trust that no one reading this post would construe that I'm implying Inda-Gro lamps outperform anyone's lamps of choice and certainly not the lamps you have chosen to use in your garden. As you, and most of the experienced growers here know, uMole readings are not weighted to either red or blue. I can get a 2000uMole reading with all blue diodes so the PAR intensity measured by a quantum (PAR) meter means nothing in terms of whose got more 'brake horsepower' in an overall comparison of lights. I believe, no matter what the journals/forums post up, it'll always be a personal preference as to the lights you choose to use much like the ongoing soil vs hydro debates.
In your case you are doing a bang up job with all the high end equipment you've chosen for what I hope will be a bountiful harvest. Keep up the great work and consider me subbed.
I have been seeing you reference the PAR output of the Inda-Gro lights and I wanted to point out to get the 200uMole output you were told during a phone conversation you had with Inda-Gro would have been their response to a question regarding the average uMole value from a stationary mounted 420 series light over the recommended area of coverage (5 x 5) during the vegetative phase at the recommended 36" lamp:canopy spacing. That 200uMole is in fact the average reading over the entire 5 x 5 area. You'll see in most journals that the veg cycles do quite nicely even at the outside edges on a 5 x 5 with that recommended 36" lamp to canopy spacing. Mounting the 420 series on light rails will also enhance the area of coverage. Had you asked the values at a median mounting height (18" lamp:canopy spacing) it would have been stated at an average of 600uMoles over a 1.1Msq area (due to the aspect ratio of the fixture being longer than wider).
To graphically illustrate this point here is an on line gallery that shows a 6 x 10 room where 2 of the 420 series lights have been installed. As an aside I think it's great you're using Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Growers Handbook as a reference for your garden. Check out all the images in this gallery and you'll see Uncle Ed, who BTW runs the 420's, talking shop with Jeo in this very garden as well as other images that show lamp:canopy spacing on the broccoli at over 5 feet and a Day 34 uMole measurement at 12" reading over 1160uMoles.
https://picasaweb.google.com/117165142682869295633/InHouseGarden2#5837849296193060514
On the lower wattage 100 watt lamp, like the one PSUAGRO has been using, we can see an 852 uMole reading taken at what looks to be maybe 8" from the lamp. What's worth noting here in this gallery is that you'll see the egg plant is thriving in all phases of it's veg-flower growth on just a single lamp that has been running for over 2 years without replacement.
https://picasaweb.google.com/117165142682869295633/MiscGardens#5836285797038767538
The Inda-Gro return policy, up until around 6 months ago, was to fully refund the purchase if the product was returned undamaged in the original packaging within 30 days of purchase. In over three years they had taken back maybe 3 lights under this policy. The reason for the 25% restocking charges being implemented to returns received within 30 days stems from what has been within the last 6 months, an increasing campaign of sorts whereby, what may have been competitors, would order product and return it within the 30 days, many times in unopened boxes and expect to be given the full refund which they were given upon return of the merchandise. This created increasing merchant credit card and shipping charges that Inda-Gro had to bear and it also increased the likelihood that products would be damaged in transit and become unsaleable. Again up until 6 months ago it was not even an issue but with a recent uptick in this type of 'same day' return actiivity it created an increase in cases where not only would Inda-Gro be out the charges they had credited on the return but the fixture would be a loss as well.
What finally tipped the scale and caused the restock charge to be implemented was when a new dealer got set up in Ohio who on their first order purchased 3 of the 420's and while the order was en route canceled it so that Inda-Gro would get stuck with the shipping charges. To make matters worse this new dealer simultaneously lodged a complaint with their credit card company that it was an unauthorized charge. The complaint lacked merit since Inda-Gro refunds returns on the same day they receive the merchandise back and had received written authorization for the original purchase. The dealer was subsequently dropped from Inda-Gro but they soon went on to carry another induction line which is, from what I was told, using two lamps, one for veg and one for flower which have been patented for indoor gardening, are manufactured locally and provides them with what has been described as 'greater margins'. Probably this is all just a coincidence in that this other manufacturer was only discovered while their first Inda-Gro order was being shipped to them.
The 25% restock is an unfortunate result of those types of ridiculous black op tactics. To those that would wish to change an order however that 25% restock fee is offered as a credit to another purchase or may be waived entirely on a case by case basis and at their sole discretion.
I didn't mean to hijack your thread and I trust that no one reading this post would construe that I'm implying Inda-Gro lamps outperform anyone's lamps of choice and certainly not the lamps you have chosen to use in your garden. As you, and most of the experienced growers here know, uMole readings are not weighted to either red or blue. I can get a 2000uMole reading with all blue diodes so the PAR intensity measured by a quantum (PAR) meter means nothing in terms of whose got more 'brake horsepower' in an overall comparison of lights. I believe, no matter what the journals/forums post up, it'll always be a personal preference as to the lights you choose to use much like the ongoing soil vs hydro debates.
In your case you are doing a bang up job with all the high end equipment you've chosen for what I hope will be a bountiful harvest. Keep up the great work and consider me subbed.
|FCG|Frank
Active Member
Hey guys! Thanks for checking in! 
@chaz: wow, thank you so much for providing this hindsight. You are a very well informed person. I certainly understand what motivated their decision. I still do not agree with it, but now I understand.
For the PAR readings this is a copy/paste from his e-mail to me:
In any case, I greatly enjoyed your post, so thanks a lot!
@flaxseedoil1000: First 30 kWh each day are $0.05, then $0.07. Water is free. (Yes, it's very cheap!)
I am receiving my two SS400W tomorrow. My A51-90 will be up for sale for anyone who is interested. I'll let it go for cheap.
I've begun my grow journal on Cali Light's website and there is a super friendly helper (I think hired by CL but not sure) there giving very specific advice. He advised me to move the air pump out of the tent as not to pump the DWC full of CO2, and advised on a bigger res otherwise I'd be topping it up multiples times a day later (I got a 22 gal res now). You know, small things that the likes of a new grower like me wouldn't think about until the problem manifests for the first time.
@chaz: wow, thank you so much for providing this hindsight. You are a very well informed person. I certainly understand what motivated their decision. I still do not agree with it, but now I understand.
For the PAR readings this is a copy/paste from his e-mail to me:
So maybe he was mistaken or mixed up his numbers? Or I could have misunderstood it. I'm a nub after all
In any case, I greatly enjoyed your post, so thanks a lot!@flaxseedoil1000: First 30 kWh each day are $0.05, then $0.07. Water is free. (Yes, it's very cheap!)
I am receiving my two SS400W tomorrow. My A51-90 will be up for sale for anyone who is interested. I'll let it go for cheap.
I've begun my grow journal on Cali Light's website and there is a super friendly helper (I think hired by CL but not sure) there giving very specific advice. He advised me to move the air pump out of the tent as not to pump the DWC full of CO2, and advised on a bigger res otherwise I'd be topping it up multiples times a day later (I got a 22 gal res now). You know, small things that the likes of a new grower like me wouldn't think about until the problem manifests for the first time.
flaxseedoil1000
Well-Known Member
U got it good there.
Last month I was in the middle of tier 4, 936 kWh, $208.25
My bill would have been about $60 at your place.
|FCG|Frank
Active Member
The GFP is fucking amazing so far, and I haven't even received my lights yet! (They'll be here tomorrow).
I've been dabbling in the cannabis world for only 3 months but have already met more than a handful of unprofessional assholes, crooks or morons who take advantage of people in pain, in need, or who are just interested in cannabis in general and look up to these dishonest people for advice.
If I had known what I know now three months ago, I'd have done EVERYTHING differently. I wasted hundreds of dollars with bad merchants but now I have a trusted grow shop that provides A+, personalized customer service (that'd be Grower's House in my case... they have tier 4 UPS pricing for Canada and beat any grow shop we have here by at least 20% on every price, not to mention their selection is limitless) and now a light manufacturer I feel can trust, I can only look forward to my future with this fantastic hobby, without fear or stress of being taken advantage of. And that has no price.
In my opinion, as far as transparency and professionalism is concerned, Cali Lightworks sets the bar and everyone else is under it. As for the results, we'll have to wait and see.
I've been dabbling in the cannabis world for only 3 months but have already met more than a handful of unprofessional assholes, crooks or morons who take advantage of people in pain, in need, or who are just interested in cannabis in general and look up to these dishonest people for advice.
If I had known what I know now three months ago, I'd have done EVERYTHING differently. I wasted hundreds of dollars with bad merchants but now I have a trusted grow shop that provides A+, personalized customer service (that'd be Grower's House in my case... they have tier 4 UPS pricing for Canada and beat any grow shop we have here by at least 20% on every price, not to mention their selection is limitless) and now a light manufacturer I feel can trust, I can only look forward to my future with this fantastic hobby, without fear or stress of being taken advantage of. And that has no price.
In my opinion, as far as transparency and professionalism is concerned, Cali Lightworks sets the bar and everyone else is under it. As for the results, we'll have to wait and see.
gordobo
Active Member
WTF are you talkin about dude? You got taken advantage of because you bought inda-grow lights. They're trying to tell you Ed R is running their lights but I call BS on that. Next time go with an iGROW package and run them up against your xmas tree lights. I was at the 2012 LA Cannabis Cup and there was your premier LED company California Light Works with their sport coats and versace sun glasses with their hair slicked back sales guys pushing their xmas tree lights. Talk about being out of their element! Everyone else at the cup had weed under their lights. They had plastic plants which I guess was meant to show their transparency and professionalism. You got 3 months into growing herb and you can put these guys at the top of your list? What a joke but that's okay because laughter has no price either!
|FCG|Frank
Active Member
I was referring to another manufacturer than Indagro, and seriously, you're a really annoying person. I do not put any gravitas in the words of someone who constantly makes an effort to defend a company without posting results or pics.
Now GTFO of my thread. You are the perfect example of what I was saying about sharks.
Now GTFO of my thread. You are the perfect example of what I was saying about sharks.
|FCG|Frank
Active Member
Glad to see you around here lazy
|FCG|Frank
Active Member
Here's the new setup (and new meter after the el-cheapo got splashed by two drops of water and broke...):
New 22gal res.
New 22gal res.
flaxseedoil1000
Well-Known Member
You have a light-rail inside a 4' wide tent, correct?
|FCG|Frank
Active Member
yes! Ed R's book says that even if the light moves for only a feet it is already incredibly helpful because it also changes the angle of the light hitting the leaves, which stimulates photosynthesis more.
flaxseedoil1000
Well-Known Member
Actually I was wondering how it fit.
I thought the rails were 2 meters. Did you have to cut yours?
I thought the rails were 2 meters. Did you have to cut yours?