Soil Food Web Gardening with Compost Teas

[Cann]

topdress it all...then water with one or all of the following: aloe, coconut, sprouted seed enzyme tea. I also use ful-power and pro-tekt in every watering, and TM-7 (once a month..key trace nutrients)

imo the topdress will do you just as good as an ACT while allowing your soil food web to come into balance. Topdressing will take a few weeks to become available...but this shouldn't be an issue given how your lady looks LOL.

I applied an ACT once this flower cycle and it was because I am flowering in poor soil and they were starting to yellow around week 4. Kelp, Alfalfa, EWC, pro-tekt, and aloe - it stopped the yellowing and has helped a bit...

but the real kicker is the 2'' EWC topdress which I applied at the same time - much more effective IMO, it is now around week 6 and they are looking very happy still losing some leaves here and there, but I don't mind some fall colors in my crop

 

[headtreep]

topdress it all...then water with one or all of the following: aloe, coconut, sprouted seed enzyme tea. I also use ful-power and pro-tekt in every watering, and TM-7 (once a month..key trace nutrients)

imo the topdress will do you just as good as an ACT while allowing your soil food web to come into balance. Topdressing will take a few weeks to become available...but this shouldn't be an issue given how your lady looks LOL.

I applied an ACT once this flower cycle and it was because I am flowering in poor soil and they were starting to yellow around week 4. Kelp, Alfalfa, EWC, pro-tekt, and aloe - it stopped the yellowing and has helped a bit...

but the real kicker is the 2'' EWC topdress which I applied at the same time - much more effective IMO, it is now around week 6 and they are looking very happy still losing some leaves here and there, but I don't mind some fall colors in my crop

Yeah maybe I'm just overkill hehe. I topdress 2" with EWC/Compost as well. I say one thing. My plants are healthy as hell so I have to be doing something right. I think I will stick to more basic teas though and not get too carried away. I do many foliars with silica/neem and also add silica powder to my waterings. My plants feel fake literally lol.

 

[Sincerely420]

Headtreep, you're doing AACT? I'm weirdly compelled to badmouth AACT every time I hear it. I think it is one of these BS side businesses that sprang up to sell stoners. If you Google it, you'll see that no one else employs AACT for commercial horticulture. That's clue #1 that something stinks in Denmark

Care to go on with badmouthing AACTs? I'm curious as to what you might have to say

 

[Sincerely420]

Or they might apply AACT once to get things started in a poorly established garden. If you're soil food web is happy and healthy, the addition of AACT is questionable at best...i would agree with rrog here. I used to be convinced AACT was a great thing, then I started thinking about it from the perspective of the soil microbes...

Care to elaborate? I've been using them 3/4 waterings from about 2 weeks old with the thought in mind that I'm constantly adding life to my soil ecosystem.
Microbes constantly die or are consumed, so why would it be a bad idea to constantly replenish them? Or why does it seem like a gimmick?
Ever visit Grasscity?

But your saying using AACT's is questionable at best?? Do you water only? And only foliar feed?

*edit-I know that hella question but I've never seen someone say using AACTs is questionable at best in all of the hour that I've put in between forums over the past year. So I'm really curious about your view from the microbes POV

 

[Cann]

"My plants feel fake literally lol."​

Beef jerky leaves...i know the feeling. the more and more I think about this whole gardening thing the further I am leaning towards simplicity. Mimic the patterns of nature.

Build a good soil once, establish a healthy soil food web by letting the soil sit and through the application of one ACT and a cover crop (if you please). Plant your vegetable - in this instance cannabis, topdress with fresh amazing EWC (#1 factor for continuing a successful no-till IMO), water with enzymes of sorts (sprouted seeds, diastatic malt, coconut h2o), and let the soil take care of things.

Continue to water and feed enzymes and silica on occasion...you're golden. Foliars if you want - not necessarily mimicking the patterns of nature but I still do it for insect supression, etc. Neem/protekt once a week, either coconut, sprouted seed, or aloe twice a week in some sort of random order depending on what I have.

At harvest, chop the plant at the base, replant in the same spot immediately (take advantage of the active mycorrhizae and such in the soil), topdress with ewc, water with enzyme tea. done. maybe do some crop cycling after multiple cycles and grow clover for a bit, or topdress some kelp, neem, and crab meals to replenish.

at least that's what makes sense to me...bout to put it into practice once I feel my soil is ready for the challenge.


oh yeah, and don't forget to flush!!!

 

[Cann]

"I'm constantly adding life to my soil ecosystem"

This is the problem here...think about it this way: Your soil (if let be) is a finely tuned ecosystem where constant life and death is happening. Bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoa, micro and macroarthropods are all coexisting in some sort of manner, with the "good" guys keeping the "bad" ones in check, and everyone regulating each others populations based on the conditions in the soil. These conditions are affected by what the plant exudes, meaning the plant is keeping the microbe levels in check for you (in the most simple terms). This is why measuring pH in organic soil is a joke...it is always changing with the swapping of H+ and OH- as the plant gathers what it needs from the soil (or rather as the microbes gather for the plant).

Dump an ACT on that with billions of microbes (of questionable nature most likely unless you have you're method down perfectly and own a microscope...) and it is akin to dumping all of the folks in New York City onto downtown L.A. Madness.

At least this is my understanding...like I said ACT can be used once to establish the food web...but once the web is established - leave it alone!

Rrog explains it much more eloquently than I...

 

[Sincerely420]

I built a good soil from the start then watered & turned every so often, and it sit for a month before potted into it. I understand that.
You said from the microbes POV you don't think it's a good idea inoculate with AACTs, why?

I've top dress on occasion as well. Maybe once every 3 wks or so up until wk 4 of flowering as well, and am aware of the benefits and the fact that they says it takes a couple weeks to become available.

I don't wanna foliar for any added nutritional value, just for leaf protection more.

When I harvest, I plant on reusing my soil but not right away. I'll re-amend heavily with compost and lightly with more mineral and nutritonal amendments, then let it cycle. I don't plan on drop the next plant in the same hole, but i know of a "guru" that does it so I won't knock it!

and have you ever been to grasscity? You should check out the organics section over there..There are a gang of growers doing BIG things who swear by AACTs and use them with ever watering with a "working" soil.
http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1110985-act-aerated-compost-tea.html <- This is the AACT thread incase you haven't seen it.

Seems to me that using a regular compost tea would be more of a waste of time.
And what you mean about that flushing? I don't remember us having an inside joke lol so I'm mad confused

 

[Sincerely420]

"I'm constantly adding life to my soil ecosystem"

This is the problem here...think about it this way: Your soil (if let be) is a finely tuned ecosystem where constant life and death is happening. Bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoa, micro and macroarthropods are all coexisting in some sort of manner, with the "good" guys keeping the "bad" ones in check, and everyone regulating each others populations based on the conditions in the soil. These conditions are affected by what the plant exudes, meaning the plant is keeping the microbe levels in check for you (in the most simple terms). This is why measuring pH in organic soil is a joke...it is always changing with the swapping of H+ and OH- as the plant gathers what it needs from the soil (or rather as the microbes gather for the plant).

Dump an ACT on that with billions of microbes (of questionable nature most likely unless you have you're method down perfectly and own a microscope...) and it is akin to dumping all of the folks in New York City onto downtown L.A. Madness.

At least this is my understanding...like I said ACT can be used once to establish the food web...but once the web is established - leave it alone!

Rrog explains it much more eloquently than I...

What?! Lol Things we use in the teas serve different purposes as well like Bat Guano which helps control the population of predatory nematodes in soil. Not to mention kelp meal and molasses.
I don't get the New City City onto downtown LA thing...Unless you mean just making it busy?? Which goes against all that I've learned so far.
I started at grasscity and made my way here. But I started with learning about soil and AACTs and guys over there who are gurus by probably all of our standards use AACTs with EVERY watering.

 

[headtreep]

That's what I thought about ACT. I thought you could never use too much and that MM did say the same. I make my ACT pretty similar to his after checking out his website again. I do own a microscope and seem to get better results when I use ACT often. Huge yields that are greasy ass nugs. I'm gonna stick with what I'm doing just use more stand alone ingredients which makes sense.

 

[SpliffAndMyLady]

Yea you can use just EWC, just as you would AACT. Their is no right or wrong in way, just the organic way of us doing our job and healing the earth. These last ten pages have been a pissing competition. All I gotta say is positions of power attract people on power trips, lets spread the knowledge; but be a little more humane about it and stop hating on everybody. Your guys tone...It's unbeliviable. I tried telling you guys all you needed was quality EWC awhile back, doesn't mean this is the only "true living" organic way; you get with the program I've been doing this since you were in high school. Stop downing on everybody, they might kiss your ass but I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Put your activist side away before you post or get medicated. One of the two.

 

[SpliffAndMyLady]

I mean C'MON most of y'all are parrots who just started growing organic within the pass year, squawking off what you heard from another organic noob. Lets agree to disargree. In my reality their is no right or wrong way, just the organic way. If you take that literal you deserve a slappin.lol
Peace out!

 

[Cann]

"I thought you could never use too much and that MM did say the same"​

Heres where you have to realize, unfortunately, MM is selling teas and tea related products...therefore an ACT every watering = potentially more $$$. Not that he isnt an awesome, inspiring, intelligent dude...just putting it in perspective. Again, look to commercial horticulture - nobody is applying ACT's with any kind of frequency.

The stuff on grasscity is a bit dated IMO...I refer to ICmag for most things currently...clackamascootz for most things to be exact. he is the sage, the great messenger who's message we are continuing to trickle down...

he doesn't advocate the constant use of ACT last time I checked...

also if you are wondering, lumpedawgz (or one of the variations) is his handle on grasscity.


about the microbes POV - if you are part of that soil food web community and all of a sudden you are flooded with "invaders" (whatever these may be - even if they are considered "beneficial"), the food web all of a sudden has unnaturally high amounts of activity, which it then has to metabolize or deal with in some manner, which I believe would lead to unneeded stress of some sort. It just isn't necessary. Run a side by side with enzyme teas and see - they are the future IMO. not about the microbes, but the enzymes use enzymes to catalyse the reactions in the soil instead of trying to use billions of additional microbes.


again this is just my opinion...didn't use to be but it has changed recently thanks to a few folks...I'm sure ACT with every watering can give great results..the question becomes: is it necessary?

 

[SpliffAndMyLady]

Everyone does things different.thats like asking is organics necessary. Their is no one way, period!

 

[Sincerely420]

I guess we just agree to disagree and leave it at that huh? I didn't mean no pun or now shit with my question..Just was curious as to why you thought what you did and now I know.
I didn't think we needed a referee either "SpliffAnyMyLady", but to each his own right. I'm as calm as can be atm. There's no emotion to be read into here.
Just a discussion. I ain't pissing. It's your tone pushing things that way

And I know it doesn't really matter how long any of us have been growing, it matters what we've managed to learn, retain, and apply in that time.

 

[headtreep]

Yeah I hear you Cann. It's best that I keep learning and perfecting my teas. I thought cc was lump hehe.

 

[Cann]

unmistakable writing style and sense of humor lol...took me 1 or two CC posts to realize...bingo

 

[Rrog]

There are many roads to Rome. Spinning a vortex brewer is one. It would be good to look at what we're doing with this tea.

In your bubbler / vortex you grow a lot of bacteria that eat the various nutrients in the compost. You are also increasing protozoa. The bacteria take up a lot of the nutrients during this spin cycle. OK so fattened up bacteria and protozoa tea just ready to burst with all that microlife.

Now when you pour the AACT on the soil, the bacteria get eaten by the protozoa, and the protozoa die off and finally release the nutrient package. Whew! All this happens pretty fast. The beauty of this method is the speed of delivery. This is a fast nutrient delivery method that is great to get a new soil rocking.

Otherwise a natural soil with a plant is bangin' all on its own. There is no need to replace microbes, or add microbes, or even add "special" microbes. The soil already has all of these and in the ratio and quantity the plant wants.

You can get this same nutrient payload just using the handful of compost you started with for the AACT. Just gradual and more natural. It's my preference, as well as the choice of horticulture professionals. As Cann smartly pointed out, you won't find this method used much outside of the MJ crowd.

 

[headtreep]

Less is more. Repeat.....

 

[Sincerely420]

There are many roads to Rome. Spinning a vortex brewer is one. It would be good to look at what we're doing with this tea.

In your bubbler / vortex you grow a lot of bacteria that eat the various nutrients in the compost. You are also increasing protozoa. The bacteria take up a lot of the nutrients during this spin cycle. OK so fattened up bacteria and protozoa tea just ready to burst with all that microlife.

Now when you pour the AACT on the soil, the bacteria get eaten by the protozoa, and the protozoa die off and finally release the nutrient package. Whew! All this happens pretty fast. The beauty of this method is the speed of delivery. This is a fast nutrient delivery method that is great to get a new soil rocking.

Otherwise a natural soil with a plant is bangin' all on its own. There is no need to replace microbes, or add microbes, or even add "special" microbes. The soil already has all of these and in the ratio and quantity the plant wants.

You can get this same nutrient payload just using the handful of compost you started with for the AACT. Just gradual and more natural. It's my preference, as well as the choice of horticulture professionals. As Cann smartly pointed out, you won't find this method used much outside of the MJ crowd.

Have you ever seen the organics section over at Grasscity? Do you know it's night and day? What your saying in regards to only needing the AACT once, and how the community there uses them.

You say it like your trying to bring Microbeman to Rollitup. And I know for a fact that you'll find AACT use everywhere man. What do you mean?

And I don't mean to come off argumentative, its just that what your saying goes against that grain of everything that I've learned pretty much

 

[Sincerely420]

Now when you pour the AACT on the soil, the bacteria get eaten by the protozoa, and the protozoa die off and finally release the nutrient package. Whew! All this happens pretty fast. The beauty of this method is the speed of delivery. This is a fast nutrient delivery method that is great to get a new soil rocking.
-ALSO great for the Rhizosphere are AACTs. Not just new soils is my point. Everytime you use one you get a benefit from it.
Fungi is also brewed with the bacteria and protozoa.

Otherwise a natural soil with a plant is bangin' all on its own. There is no need to replace microbes, or add microbes, or even add "special" microbes. The soil already has all of these and in the ratio and quantity the plant wants.
-There may not be a need to replace the microbes in a good soil, but what a good soil? And how many of us have microscopes to see what kinda life we have exactly?
Doesn't matter what ratio of beneficial microbes are in the soil. The plants will get what they need as they need it.

Again, don't mean to be argumentative..Maybe I'll learn something that I didn't just a few hours ago, in the next few. I'm just expressing my POV.