Quick Drying - The Other Side Of The Coin

[fdd2blk]

some information for you to use to make an educated descion.

The Cannabis Grow Bible - by Greg Green

"... Drying bud helps relax THC particles...
... Bud that is cured well smokes the best using a 3 - 4 week canning process...
...Curing breaks down chlorophyll which has Magnesium-containg green pigments. Magnesium is responsible for that sharp and harsh taste in the back of your throat..."



The Cannabible 2 - by Jason King

"...properly cured herb will have a multitude of luscious aromas, many of which words cannot describe..."

Grow Great Marijuana - by Logan Edwards

"...the entire drying process should take place over 1 - 2 weeks...
...if buds are dried to quickly, the flavor of the herb will become harsh...
...the drying of your harvest should be a slow steady process...
...you're trying to protect moisture from evaporation. this moisture will use the air in the jar to form aerobic bacteria that will convert (eat) the chlorophyll and cure your buds..."

The Good Bud Guide - by Albie

...speed drying is reckless...

 

[GraF]

nice post..... I feel conflict comming veeeeeery soon.........

and now......................

 

[fdd2blk]

ignore it and it will go away. lol

 

[acursedlie]

nice post. i don't see why there would be hostility over an intellectual point.


maybe im drunk?
nah. im not.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

fdd2blk, I feel very confident that none of the authors you cite had a low-temp dryer like mine.

Moreover, have you ever noticed how incestuous many grow books are? They frequently and liberally thieve unproven information from one another- and don't bother to add anything to the proof before printing it. When they do come up with something novel, it's not usually proven with any logical or scientific method.

Let's look at your quotes:

The Cannabis Grow Bible - by Greg Green

"... Drying bud helps relax THC particles...

RELAX THC "particles"?

What, do they put their little feet up and click on the teev?

Hey, there's some science...

... Bud that is cured well smokes the best using a 3 - 4 week canning process...

Compared to... what? You've taken this out of the context it was written in. What 'quick dry' methods does the author cite as being bad?

I'll be the first to admit that attempting to dry buds with a microwave or conventional oven will yield harsh and nasty smoking buds. This is most likely what the author is warning against.

...Curing breaks down chlorophyll which has Magnesium-containg green pigments.

If 'curing' simply means "waiting for 'x' period of time," with the expectation that chlorophyll will break down into simpler organic components (mainly into simple sugars), I'll bite.

Magnesium is responsible for that sharp and harsh taste in the back of your throat..."

...however, Mg is an element all by itself and isn't going to break down, no matter how long you wait.

While Mg is a central ion in chlorophyll, this sounds unlikely- and fairly hard to prove, one way or the other.

Magnesium doesn't have much of a flavour that I can tell from either sucking on a broken piece of a motorcycle crankcase or from Epsom Salts (MgSO4). Haven't tried to smoke much of it- magnesium, especially finely powdered pure Mg, burns a little too enthusiastically for my bong, thanks.

The logical way to prove or disprove this is to 'quick dry' (presuming oven/microwave, etc), 'dehydrate' and 'cure' samples of something else which has chlorophyll in it- and smoke it. Lettuce, maybe? See my point?

Harsh smoking weed is most likely overdried and thus burns too hot and fast. Adding a little humidity back in solves the problem.

The Cannabible 2 - by Jason King

"...properly cured herb will have a multitude of luscious aromas, many of which words cannot describe..."

What's he mean by 'properly cured'?

Grow Great Marijuana - by Logan Edwards

"...the entire drying process should take place over 1 - 2 weeks...
...if buds are dried to quickly, the flavor of the herb will become harsh...
...the drying of your harvest should be a slow steady process...
...you're trying to protect moisture from evaporation. this moisture will use the air in the jar to form aerobic bacteriathat will convert (eat) the chlorophyll and cure your buds..."

Wait- wait... is it presence of magnesium or lack of aerobic bacterial activity which causes harshness? Mr Green should go talk that one over with Mr Edwards- and get their stories straight.

fdd2blk, why don't you go cook up a low-temp dehydrator and try it, compared to your favoured hang drying? Just by doing the experiment, you'll instantly have more information than most grow book authors.

 

[fdd2blk]

no thank you 20 years of tried and true methods are enough for me.

i'm in no hurry. do they quick dry fine cigars.

i wonder how many people are cooking their hard work right now. hope they get it right the first time.

the bud takes on a whole new appearance. it is totally different. ask my a method i haven't tried.


i will be more than happy to complete any and ALL quotes above. i'll take then one at a time. give me a few minutes. thanks.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

It occurs to me that Mr Edwards provides some patently bad advice in this:

...you're trying to protect moisture from evaporation. this moisture will use the air in the jar to form aerobic bacteria"

If you were to seal damp buds in a glass jar, you'd be much more likely to wind up with fuzzy mould all over the buds in a few days- presumably to keep your aerobic bacteria company!

Don't ever put damp buds in a sealed container!

 

[fdd2blk]

fdd2blk, I feel very confident that none of the authors you cite had a low-temp dryer like mine.

Moreover, have you ever noticed how incestuous many grow books are? They frequently and liberally thieve unproven information from one another- and don't bother to add anything to the proof before printing it. When they do come up with something novel, it's not usually proven with any logical or scientific method.

Let's look at your quotes:



RELAX THC "particles"?

What, do they put their little feet up and click on the teev?
MINE LIKE MUSIC

Hey, there's some science...



Compared to... what? You've taken this out of the context it was written in. What 'quick dry' methods does the author cite as being bad?
NEVER MENTIONS QUICK DRYING

I'll be the first to admit that attempting to dry buds with a microwave or conventional oven will yield harsh and nasty smoking buds. This is most likely what the author is warning against.
YOU ASSUME



If 'curing' simply means "waiting for 'x' period of time," with the expectation that chlorophyll will break down into simpler organic components (mainly into simple sugars), I'll bite.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT CURING IS? I'D TRUST THAT KNOWLEDGE.



...however, Mg is an element all by itself and isn't going to break down, no matter how long you wait.
I STAND UNKNOWLEDGABLE ON THIS ONE.

While Mg is a central ion in chlorophyll, this sounds unlikely- and fairly hard to prove, one way or the other.

Magnesium doesn't have much of a flavour that I can tell from either sucking on a broken piece of a motorcycle crankcase or from Epsom Salts (MgSO4). Haven't tried to smoke much of it- magnesium, especially finely powdered pure Mg, burns a little too enthusiastically for my bong, thanks.
WHY. OR ARE YOU JUST TRYING TO LET ME KNOW WHAT MAGNESIUM IS.

The logical way to prove or disprove this is to 'quick dry' (presuming oven/microwave, etc), 'dehydrate' and 'cure' samples of something else which has chlorophyll in it- and smoke it. Lettuce, maybe? See my point?
NO THANKS, AGAIN.

Harsh smoking weed is most likely overdried and thus burns too hot and fast. Adding a little humidity back in solves the problem.
YOUR ASS U ME ING AGAIN.


What's he mean by 'properly cured'?
SEALING IN JARS WHEN MOIST THEN........GOOGLE IT.



Wait- wait... is it presence of magnesium or lack of aerobic bacterial activity which causes harshness? Mr Green should go talk that one over with Mr Edwards- and get their stories straight.
UM, POSSIBLY BOTH.

fdd2blk, why don't you go cook up a low-temp dehydrator and try it, compared to your favoured hang drying? Just by doing the experiment, you'll instantly have more information than most grow book authors.

I'VE NEVER FULLY SHARED MY DRYING METHOD. ARE YOU ASSUMING AGAIN?


why you make me do this? i was only giving out info.



RELAX THC "particles"?


"drying your bud helps to "relax" (stoner word) THC particles by removing water from the bud. This makes THC easier to burn and thus more psychoactive than when it is damp. Applying heat will also remove water but will affect the overall cannabiniod content of the bud. It is not a good idea to press bud or to pack bud tightly during the curing process as the bunching of THC particles makes them harder to burn."
end paragraph



this is not a fight. i hope. let's all try to learn from this one.
except me. i will never build a drying box. sorry. i still love you though.

 

[fdd2blk]

i'm going all the way back to where i first learned. these are 2 gentlemen that i'm not going to question. i would like to meet them though.


taken from Marijuana Grower's Guide by Mel Frank
first edition published 1978 by Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal
my edition- 1997 color 12 printing
(there are 42 total printings. when including all editions.(that's A LOT)

my apologies to the authors.

pg. 303
DRYING
Living marijuana leaves are 80 percent water; colas are about 70 percent water. Marijuana dried for smoking contains only eight to ten percent water, or about 10 percent of the original amount. There are several methods used to evaporate water; these have little effect on potency, but can affect the taste, bouquet, and smoothness of the smoke. Generally,the slower the dry, the smoother the taste. Excess drying and drying methods that use heat will evaporate some of the volatile oils that give grass its unique taste and aroma.
Grasses which are dried as part of the curing process usually have a smooth, mild taste, because of the elimination of chlorophyll and various proteins. Cured marijuana may also be a little sweeter than when first picked, because the curing converts some of the plants starch to simple sugars.
Some grasses are tasty and smooth-smoking when they are dried without curing, especially fresh homegrown buds which retain their volatile oils and sugar. Many homegrowers have acquired a taste for "natural" uncured grass, with its minty chlorophyll flavor; such marijuana is dreid directly after harvesting.

pg. 305

Oven Drying-
(same as a box, just an oven CAN go alot hotter. this one doesn't. pay attention to the temperatures.)

Oven drying is often used by gardeners to sample their crop. Small quantities of material can be quickly dried by being placed in a 150 degree to 200 degree oven for about 10 minutes. Larger quantities can be dried in trays that contain a single layer of material or in a dehydrator. Oven-dried and dehydrator-dried marijuana usually has a harsh taste and bite, and losses much of it's bouquet. The method is often used to dry marijuana which has been cured and dried but to moist to smoke, or to dry marijuana which is to be used for cooking or extractions. It is an adequate method for obtaining dry material for testing and emergencies, but the main harvest should not be dried in this way.
Oven drying works best with leaves. When leaves are dried together with buds or shoots, remove the material from the oven periodically, to separate the faster drying leaf material (before it burns) from the slower-drying buds. One way to do this is to place all the material on a wire screen over a tray. Every few minutes rub the material across the screen. Dried material falls into the tray and is removed from the oven. Repeat until all the material has dried.
Oven curing works well when closely watched. Dried material that is left in the oven will lose potency quickly. Any time the marijuana begins to char, most of the potency will already have been lost. This should not be a problem unless you are careless, or allow the temperature to go above 200 degrees.




and this is where i stop. i will address comments though.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

fdd2blk, address this:

Stop bitching about dehydrators until you have one in operation. k?

Grow-book experts usually aren't.

 

[fdd2blk]

fdd2blk, address this:

Stop bitching about dehydrators until you have one in operation. k?

Grow-book experts usually aren't.

how about you get off my thread. i'm only offering people a second opinion before you convince them all to destroy their weed. did you not read the part where i said i've tried them all? now you just had to get pissy. i am not knocking quick drying. i'm just letting everyone know IT IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO DRY YOUR POT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's all. now go play. and be nice. i love you.




guess these all go in the trash.

 

[GraF]

man, how did I know that was gonna happen??? I guess that some people are really stuck on their own methods, and thats why there is so much CONFLICT... (who said that there wouldnt be conflict here?) I think that people should open their brains a little instead of making a box out of it and not letting anything in.. anyways....

Im pretty sure that cured weed turns out better (I said pretty sure) but if Bfuct likes his method then whatever...... overwith

 

[fdd2blk]

i will ask him again because i do not know, ARE FINE CIGARS QUICK DRIED? not lettuce, cubans.

 

[fdd2blk]

i can't believe he clowned ed and mel. not experts? how about THE experts.

 

[GraF]

shit man,

you are right about THE experts... dont you think that if this was "the best way" to cure buds, he would be right up there with them?? but hes not so, he is here, with us, typing........... (and not writing books)

 

[KwikDraw21]

jesus fdd, you have a lot of reference to go by. and a book on rolling? man you know your shit. i commend you. my favorite rollit-upper

 

[GraF]

"jesus fdd, you have a lot of reference to go by. and a book on rolling? man you know your shit. i commend you. my favorite rollit-upper"

This is coming from a guy that grows in a cardboard box^^^

do some research b4 you try talking down on someone "kwikdraw"

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Just so everyone knows, I'm not wasting any more time with fdd, who now resides on my ignore list. Anyone who cites a grow-book which recommends sealing damp buds in a glass jar as good information isn't worth my attention, much less my keystrokes.

Remember, marijuana grow books are NOT bibles, no matter how many of them co-opt the name 'bible.' Grow book authors can and frequently DO get it wrong- they're not working against any peer-review process. You can cite all the wrong information you want- but it won't get any righter.

 

[silk]

It think you can take Al B. Fuct 's comments with a grain of salt. I take all the advice on this topic with salt. The right way to dry and cure bud is to your liking.
I believe for some like Al B. Fuct and myself, there will always come a time in our growth as students that we will question the teacher. This in my opinion is the best a teacher can expect.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

It think you can take Al B. Fuct 's comments with a grain of salt. I take all the advice on this topic with salt. The right way to dry and cure bud is to your liking.

The difference being that I've personally tried the contended methods, while some critics are happy to cite anyone's else often seriously dodgy information rather than seeking evidence independently.

I believe for some like Al B. Fuct and myself, there will always come a time in our growth as students that we will question the teacher. This in my opinion is the best a teacher can expect.

And fair enough; but students must first develop a competent critical analysis framework before setting forth on independent study, if the analysis is to have any merit. In simpler terms, a bullshit filter. Some folks don't have one of those in full working order just yet.

If grow-books were peer-reviewed, where all results are replicatable independently by others, it would be reasonable to take what they say verbatim. However, I'm not sure any such thing exists. The result is a bunch of grow authors who tell the same wrong tales over and over- for pay.

No one on rollitup is paying me for my opinions. The real proof of any information is in independent replicatability. I make sure that anything I suggest on here is absolutely replicatable by anyone who tries it- or I don't waste time writing it up. When someone else successfully tests one of my theories, this is as close to a peer-review as you'll ever get in this line of work.

This is why I invite critics to try something before attempting to discredit it- and especially when trying to do so with rather suspect information, even if there is a great preponderance of it. I'm not suggesting that one typo invalidates an entire grow book, but if something like wet buds in a sealed jar gets past the author, you really do have to wonder about the rest of the content...