Income tax is theft

[Doer]

How foolish. This document constituted a govt from whole cloth. It outlines the "common defense" and the duties of Congress quite well. It doesn't need to mention 4 phase, plasma rifles or anything. Those rifles are covered under the 2nd A, bearing arms. (if we go there)

So, you want to wipe history, instead of embrace what you have. It's combo of magic paper, dirt and blood. All careful debated and even dueled over. Voted and fought for. A person can be free to never turn on the TV in their entire lives and they are protected in their ignorance. Others, like me get real pissed off and try to "do something" with our young prissiness, for the Cause. Most are free to have ignorant opinions of some kind and no one knows the entire story of the USA.

It was all of us struggling and still is just that. Enough to hate and enough to love for everyone...(or get the hell out)

 

[canndo]

Your first line is a contradiction. If there is "self rule", why must a person be forced to consent? I think it's a very good video, but I can understand your not wanting to ring your own cognitive dissonance bell.

Can you show me an agreement where all the people agreed to be ruled ? Too bad Lysander Spooner never did any video....I'd post that for you. You might want to read his essay, Constitution of no authority.


Oh, that "leave the country" thing...how do you explain the incarceration of Americans of Japanese ethnicity during WW II ? Or how about the fugitive slave act for people that tried like HELL to leave the country so they could be free? BTW - Lysander Spooner was an abolitionist, which makes him a good guy!

I imagine Rob. He unfortunately died of food poisoning and finds himself before The Horned One, Satan himself who has come away from his busy schedule to discuss Rob's new situation.

Rob - "I made no agreement with you, no bargain, neither with you nor God himself"
Satan - "I'll have you curb your tongue about that other fella"
Rob - "I didn't sign anything, I should be free of either of your decisions and live where I opt to live and I don't think I want it to be here"
Satan - "Nope, you didn't agree to anything"
Rob - "there, see?"
Satan - "you had a mom? A dad? you human"
Rob - "yes I am"
Satan - "well Even I didn't make the rules dude, we all inherited our situations, welcome to hell, if you will excuse me, Hussein is demanding to know why he belongs here, seeing as how there were no weapons of mass destruction"

 

[Rob Roy]

I imagine Rob. He unfortunately died of food poisoning and finds himself before The Horned One, Satan himself who has come away from his busy schedule to discuss Rob's new situation.

Rob - "I made no agreement with you, no bargain, neither with you nor God himself"
Satan - "I'll have you curb your tongue about that other fella"
Rob - "I didn't sign anything, I should be free of either of your decisions and live where I opt to live and I don't think I want it to be here"
Satan - "Nope, you didn't agree to anything"
Rob - "there, see?"
Satan - "you had a mom? A dad? you human"
Rob - "yes I am"
Satan - "well Even I didn't make the rules dude, we all inherited our situations, welcome to hell, if you will excuse me, Hussein is demanding to know why he belongs here, seeing as how there were no weapons of mass destruction"

Hell is for people that initiate aggression against others. I'll be giving multiple orgasms to virgins in heaven. Give my regards to Chesus when you get there and all his Somali pirate friends.

 

[canndo]

If our politicians/lawmakers were spending their own $$$ most of our revenue/spending problems would be solved. If a company in the private sector spends more that it takes in bankruptcy is inevitable. If our government spends more that the revenue it collects they think that they can simply raise taxes. The country is broke and it seems as if we don't care and therefore deficit spending is out of control. Wondering who is going to pay for this mess.

It is always convenient to compare a country with either a corporation or a dinner table surrounded by mom and pop and strewn with over due bills.

Neither is a very good comparision. The United States has no charter in which it states that it needs to make a profit or even have a balanced budget. If our government spends more than it takes in it can indeed raise taxes. This country is not "broke" (if by broke you mean not having any money). Furthermore, it is a constant amusement to me how only now, after Bush took a perfectly good economy and a decent revenue stream and turned it into mush, are all of the folks who were claiming "it's OUR money, we want it now" back then are worried about our debt. Only now are they pointing to programs that actually help people and blaming them for our current problems.

 

[canndo]

So a piece of paper (birth certificate) provides "consent". Where can I get some of this magic paper ?

I like self rule, it's easy. It goes like this - do not initiate aggression against another person or their justly acquired property - see ? Easy.

What is hard is keeping others from trying to rule others or thinking they and their friends "own" a geopolitical area bounded by imaginary lines.

In other words Rob - what is "hard" is getting everyone to think and act as you do. Funny, that seems to be the most insurmountable problem of all and the one this country happens to have gotten fairly agile at managing. When you finally are able to change the human dynamic they I am quite certain that your ideology will take instant root.

 

[UncleBuck]

Somebody's got to pay their bills.

yeah, and you've never used or benefitted from anything the government has spent money on

lots of whiny pussies in this thread.

 

[Rob Roy]

In other words Rob - what is "hard" is getting everyone to think and act as you do. Funny, that seems to be the most insurmountable problem of all and the one this country happens to have gotten fairly agile at managing. When you finally are able to change the human dynamic they I am quite certain that your ideology will take instant root.

Attaching ego does happen, even with peaceful guys like me.

However what do YOU think is better than the reciprocity of live and let live? It is precisely BECAUSE of human nature that I believe what I do. Since some people like to initiate aggression why create institutions such as government that have their foundation based in this?

MY IDEOLOGY? What do you disagree with within the concept of peaceful self ownership?

 

[UncleBuck]

Attaching ego does happen, even with peaceful guys like me.

However what do YOU think is better than the reciprocity of live and let live? It is precisely BECAUSE of human nature that I believe what I do. Since some people like to initiate aggression why create institutions such as government that have their foundation based in this?

MY IDEOLOGY? What do you disagree with within the concept of peaceful self ownership?

the government's purpose is not to initiate aggression, it is to protect rights.

and your ideology is not "peaceful self ownership", it is shameless mooching.

 

[Rob Roy]

yeah, and you've never used or benefitted from anything the government has spent money on

lots of whiny pussies in this thread.

Does deriving a benefit (the end) justify a coercive means?

 

[Rob Roy]

the government's purpose is not to initiate aggression, it is to protect rights.

and your ideology is not "peaceful self ownership", it is shameless mooching.

"Government is force etc. " --- George Washington

Thank you for telling me what my ideology is. I hadn't read the book of "Uncle Buck" and now I'm saved. Hallelujah!

 

[Doer]

Hell is for people that initiate aggression against others. I'll be giving multiple orgasms to virgins in heaven. Give my regards to Chesus when you get there and all his Somali pirate friends.

Heaven and hell? I don't buy that either.

 

[Doer]

MY IDEOLOGY? What do you disagree with within the concept of peaceful self ownership?

But, who keeps it peaceful? This is about as peaceful as people can get considering... Peace is the luxury you seem to be taking for granted. Am I wrong?

 

[Rob Roy]

Heaven and hell? I don't buy that either.

I was being facetious. Although I would tell the devil to fuck off if I ever met him. IF I had a god, she would drive a Ford-Lincoln-Mercury.

 

[Doer]

In other words Rob - what is "hard" is getting everyone to think and act as you do. Funny, that seems to be the most insurmountable problem of all and the one this country happens to have gotten fairly agile at managing. When you finally are able to change the human dynamic they I am quite certain that your ideology will take instant root.

Yep, we Love Star Trek. We can hope. But hope is honor, crying in midst of, world envied, Plenty, is not.

 

[Doer]

I was being facetious. Although I would tell the devil to fuck off if I ever met him. IF I had a god, she would drive a Ford-Lincoln-Mercury.

You mean the Postman? Have you seen him, Ford Lincoln-Mercury, I mean?

 

[UncleBuck]

Does deriving a benefit (the end) justify a coercive means?

yeah, you'd rather just take the benefit and ignore the cost. the shameless moocher's ideology.

 

[Rob Roy]

You mean the Postman? Have you seen him, Ford Lincoln-Mercury, I mean?

I once put roach burns in my dad's '65 Lincoln. Does that count?

 

[Doer]

I once put roach burns in my dad's '65 Lincoln. Does that count?

I once delivered a big Ford (estate sale) to my da's, with the trunk smelling of green Jamaican stick bush. But, I had also sideswiped a set of big road cones, so there was the paint damage to distract him.

 

[canndo]

Attaching ego does happen, even with peaceful guys like me.

However what do YOU think is better than the reciprocity of live and let live? It is precisely BECAUSE of human nature that I believe what I do. Since some people like to initiate aggression why create institutions such as government that have their foundation based in this?

MY IDEOLOGY? What do you disagree with within the concept of peaceful self ownership?

No, human nature is simple as I have said before, we are a predatory species, we take, we take advantage of, we exploit and we dominate. That is how we got to be the uber species. We don't go along to get along, we don't respect one another's "rights" unless we are forced to do so, and even then we will find ways to get around it.

the people who initiate agression are most often the people who are successful. I have always gotten a kick over the hidden meaning of "the meek shall inherit the earth", in other words the earth will be given to the meeks after it has been taken by someone who is not meek.

I do not disagree with your ideology, I think it is wonderful. I also think communism is wonderful and I think peaceful coexistence with all of my neighbors is marvelous. I also know it is a dream and that every peaceful culture in the world is eventually taken advantage of, overcome, consumed, absorbed or simply destroyed.

I know as well that what you are looking for is stasis and that mankind and stasis do not get along. there is no such thing as "live and let live" so long as there are two people on the earth. There will always be a dominant and a subservient position and the dominant one will take advantage of the other. That, is human nature and it is not swayed by benevolent self interest because that requires conscious reasoning and mankind doesn't do much of that.

 

[Rob Roy]

But, who keeps it peaceful? This is about as peaceful as people can get considering... Peace is the luxury you seem to be taking for granted. Am I wrong?

Name any government that has peaceful means....