Looks like Maher is a greedy A--hole.

[Rancho Cucamonga]

Maher like most political pundits are hypocrites on a fairly regular basis.

 

[ginwilly]

BC=prevents further expenditure due to unwanted pregnancy and doctor's visits for nasty cramps (What several women I know take it for.), among other things. Prevents further expense of childbirth and prenatal visits; stops the problem before it starts.
Insulin=prevents untimely death and complications after you already have diabetes. That's a treatment, not a prevention.

Changing your tire when you get a blowout is a treatment; changing your tire when you start seeing unsafe wear is prevention. If your diabetes could have been prevented by exercise and dietary changes, then those would be prevention. However, if you just have diabetes due to reasons beyond your control, insulin in no way prevents you from having diabetes. Whether or not you like it, "prevention" and "treatment" are VASTLY different ends of the spectrum. Stopping a condition from occurring saves money in the long run, treatment of a persistent condition generally costs a bit more than that. Welcome to the world of business sir. It's not always pretty, but it behooves your insurance business to prevent unwanted births; those cost more money. As opposed to the person with an already existing condition, who will always be an expense.

Insulin can PREVENT a stroke, heart attack, diabetic coma etc. It treats your insulin level. BC pills prevent pregnancies (let's be honest, population control is a huge part but nobody but kp has admitted it) and treats things like cramps.

Coumadin TREATS blood clots or PREVENTS strokes and PEs. Don't fall into the trap Bucky fell in thinking BC pills are magical like no other medicine and deserves special consideration even over life saving drugs. Unless you are pushing for population control. If that's the case just say so, don't pretend BC pills are something they are not. If you are just trying to stick it to the church, man up and say so.

The really depressing part is nobody used to think like this until a 30 year political activist working with Pelosi researched which religious colleges were not covering contraceptives and applied there. It was a staged outrage hatched from a political plan (war on women) and suddenly birth control pills have a magical quality. I feel for my fellow citizens that fell for this.

 

[Winter Woman]

WW you are trying to reason with elitist snob who joined here in may of 2010 and has 35,000++ posts.
Hes a troll of the worst kind he gets banned and comes back. I mean how bigga hint do you need that you're are not wanted here?.

He isn't elitist, he thinks he is but he isn't. Don't worry I fixed it.

 

[PetFlora]

Have any of you given any thought to what is being accomplished here?

In spite of decades of having both parties throwing shit and lies in your face on a DAILY basis, all of you clearly believe in this so-called 2 party system

THAT IS FUCKING DEPRESSING, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT WHERE THEY WANT YOU

They're simply there to preoccupy you, so they can do their real dirty deeds behind the scenes

Anybody ever read the NY Times Best Seller Confessions of an Economic Hitman? Consider it mandatory homework for all of you. If you still buy into this facade of government BY/FOR/& OF THE PEOPLE actually caring about you, or the planet, well at least I tried

 

[diet coke]

Any one that believes any thing Rachel Maddow , Ed or the other show the last word on msnbc has to be on the short bus. If you cant see the hatred and venom they have for any one who disagrees with them and there blatant lies / fantasy world, then you are not well informed. (stupid)

Not to worry it will all be over soon.

 

[kpmarine]

Insulin can PREVENT a stroke, heart attack, diabetic coma etc. It treats your insulin level. BC pills prevent pregnancies (let's be honest, population control is a huge part but nobody but kp has admitted it) and treats things like cramps.

Coumadin TREATS blood clots or PREVENTS strokes and PEs. Don't fall into the trap Bucky fell in thinking BC pills are magical like no other medicine and deserves special consideration even over life saving drugs. Unless you are pushing for population control. If that's the case just say so, don't pretend BC pills are something they are not. If you are just trying to stick it to the church, man up and say so.

The really depressing part is nobody used to think like this until a 30 year political activist working with Pelosi researched which religious colleges were not covering contraceptives and applied there. It was a staged outrage hatched from a political plan (war on women) and suddenly birth control pills have a magical quality. I feel for my fellow citizens that fell for this.

You missed what I was saying, it's a money saving thing for everyone involved. Like I said, pregnancies aren't cheap, nor is everything that follows. I guess it could be "population control" for some, for me it's just prevention of unwanted pregnancy though. I'd rather kick in on some birth control for everyone, than have to pay for the medical bills and social services that will go to a child that nobody even intended to have to begin with. While this is true:"Insulin can PREVENT a stroke, heart attack, diabetic coma etc. It treats your insulin level."; it doesn't make it the same as BC. That insulin is preventing complications as a result of your insulin issues; birth control prevents pregnancy before you're pregnant. There's a difference between stopping something from happening at all, and stopping further complications from occurring by treating the existing issue. If I was a woman who didn't want to get pregnant, then BC is a reasonable prevention. An abortion would be much closer to your example of treating something already present; as it's intended to terminate the pregnancy, not just stop it from happening. All the treatments you mention require a pre-existing condition; BC just requires that you be able to get pregnant.

Birth control isn't "magical", it's just a common sense prevention; that was how this line of conversation started. You are trying to conflate "prevention" and "treatment". While they have similarities; prevention requires you to have a reasonable chance of developing a problem, treatment requires the problem to already exist. I'm not trying to "stick it to the church" either, though I do feel that many of the more hardline churches are encouraging unsafe practices with their general condemnation of BC. That's a whole other ball of wax that has nothing to do with whether or not BC is preventative, or whether or not the other treatments you have referenced are preventative.

 

[Mr Neutron]

In spite of decades of having both parties throwing shit and lies in your face on a DAILY basis, all of you clearly believe in this so-called 2 party system

Hey, hey, hey... careful, don't be lumping ALL of us in that category.

 

[UncleBuck]

Insulin can PREVENT a stroke, heart attack, diabetic coma etc. It treats your insulin level. BC pills prevent pregnancies (let's be honest, population control is a huge part but nobody but kp has admitted it) and treats things like cramps.

Coumadin TREATS blood clots or PREVENTS strokes and PEs. Don't fall into the trap Bucky fell in thinking BC pills are magical like no other medicine and deserves special consideration even over life saving drugs. Unless you are pushing for population control. If that's the case just say so, don't pretend BC pills are something they are not. If you are just trying to stick it to the church, man up and say so.

The really depressing part is nobody used to think like this until a 30 year political activist working with Pelosi researched which religious colleges were not covering contraceptives and applied there. It was a staged outrage hatched from a political plan (war on women) and suddenly birth control pills have a magical quality. I feel for my fellow citizens that fell for this.

lol!

so my wife gets cramps and pops a birth control pill? JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA!

and yet another electoral vote for the dems. actually, it's two this time since you assigned some crazy conspiracy theory to basic health care for women.

 

[ginwilly]

You missed what I was saying, it's a money saving thing for everyone involved. Like I said, pregnancies aren't cheap, nor is everything that follows. I guess it could be "population control" for some, for me it's just prevention of unwanted pregnancy though. I'd rather kick in on some birth control for everyone, than have to pay for the medical bills and social services that will go to a child that nobody even intended to have to begin with. While this is true:"Insulin can PREVENT a stroke, heart attack, diabetic coma etc. It treats your insulin level."; it doesn't make it the same as BC. That insulin is preventing complications as a result of your insulin issues; birth control prevents pregnancy before you're pregnant. There's a difference between stopping something from happening at all, and stopping further complications from occurring by treating the existing issue. If I was a woman who didn't want to get pregnant, then BC is a reasonable prevention. An abortion would be much closer to your example of treating something already present; as it's intended to terminate the pregnancy, not just stop it from happening. All the treatments you mention require a pre-existing condition; BC just requires that you be able to get pregnant.

Birth control isn't "magical", it's just a common sense prevention; that was how this line of conversation started. You are trying to conflate "prevention" and "treatment". While they have similarities; prevention requires you to have a reasonable chance of developing a problem, treatment requires the problem to already exist. I'm not trying to "stick it to the church" either, though I do feel that many of the more hardline churches are encouraging unsafe practices with their general condemnation of BC. That's a whole other ball of wax that has nothing to do with whether or not BC is preventative, or whether or not the other treatments you have referenced are preventative.

OK, using the same logic please explain why gym memberships are not paid for? especially for those with a BMI over 20.

You are aware that nobody was stopping women from getting BC pills aren't you? Most of them even had an insurance policy that covered it. Fluke and Pelosi had to do research to find a school that sold policies but wouldn't cover BC. Before the fabricated outrage women paid a co-pay on that prescription just as she would any other prescription.

Also, you are arguing that a pill, that is just one of several methods to prevent pregnancy, is more vital than medicine that prevents certain death.

 

[NLXSK1]

Greed is good...

 

[kpmarine]

OK, using the same logic please explain why gym memberships are not paid for? especially for those with a BMI over 20.

You are aware that nobody was stopping women from getting BC pills aren't you? Most of them even had an insurance policy that covered it. Fluke and Pelosi had to do research to find a school that sold policies but wouldn't cover BC. Before the fabricated outrage women paid a co-pay on that prescription just as she would any other prescription.

Also, you are arguing that a pill, that is just one of several methods to prevent pregnancy, is more vital than medicine that prevents certain death.

Strawmen aside; I was arguing it's preventative, and that the other things you mentioned were not. It's pretty much available to everyone. I don't feel it needs to be free, just available and affordable. You don't need a gym membership to lose weight, you just need to eat better and go on some walks; same as trying to prevent diabetes. I never argued that life-saving medicine is less vital, just that I felt you were miscategorizing things a bit; also, I tried to explain to you a little bit (As I saw it.) of why prevention of birth is financially wise for a business as opposed to providing your average life saving medication. I think we may have been misunderstanding each other a bit.

 

[ginwilly]

Fair enough kp, I think it was my using insulin as an example that set it off. It was just the first drug that popped into my head. I could have used a myriad of other drugs that might not have sparked the debate over which med is more important. That wasn't my point. My point was BC pills are a prescription, let's treat it as such (like we did for all of our lives until Fluke happened).

You never heard anyone calling for BC pills to be FREE until then. Now people have been convinced by talking points that BC pills are so supernatural they are the only drug in the world that is deemed so important that copays MUST be waved. It's an emotional/political argument. It's not a scientific, logical, or medical argument.

People want to stick it to the church? fine, man up and say that's why. Want to limit population growth? man up and say so. If you think the pills MUST be free for the good of society, and they were impossible (or even difficult for that matter) to come by, I can't help you.

Besides, if were constructing a straw man I would have used type I diabetes instead of just diabetes. Diet and exercise is not the answer for those people, life saving drugs are. Life saving drugs, not convenience drugs.