5 lbs of NUGS/CO2 EXTRACTION

heckler73

Well-Known Member
...

Very good questions, and I'm also wondering if there's any addition of absolute ethanol as any form of a modifier to the supercritical CO2 in terms of recovery % with no penalty re: dilution of the active content.. if so, what % vs what weight, and when is it used? (This should be a good one...) :D
I sincerely doubt it... that would require a PUMP ;)
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
From the Eden Labs link:

There are two basic types of CO2 extraction. Low pressure cold extraction involves chilling CO2 to between 35-55 degrees F and pumping it through the plant material at between 800-1,500 psi. Supercritical Fluid extraction involves heating the CO2 to above 87F and pumping it above 1,100 psi. Usually this work is done between 6,000-10,000 psi. Supercritical Fluid CO2 can best be described as a dense fog whereas the first method described uses the CO2 in a dense liquid state.

Low pressure CO2 is often the best method for producing high quality botanical extracts. CO2 has a high loading rate in this state meaning that you will have to pump many volumes of CO2 through a given volume of botanical. The loading rate is typically 10-40 volumes. For this reason, it is important to have a high flow pump and a CO2 recycle system unless wasting high volumes of CO2 is not a concern.

Supercritical CO2 has a much faster loading rate 2-10 volumes and a wide range of uses. The downside is that some extracts can be damaged by either the high pressure breaking molecular ring structures or the fact that moisture in the botanicals can react with the CO2 and form carbonic acid which can turn some oils rancid. Following proper procedures can avoid these problems.



And then there's this guy:
[video=youtube;OHwWrt_00hE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHwWrt_00hE[/video]

Now that's a clean lab...

/sarcasm off
 

vacpurge

New Member
wtf is going on in that video? sounds like a bunch of crackheads with no teeth and their place pretty much confirms it!
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
wtf is going on in that video? sounds like a bunch of crackheads with no teeth and their place pretty much confirms it!
His other vids are pretty bizarre, too. The strange part is there is some logic to his method, but it is so haphazardly performed I have to wonder if he actually understands the underlying thermodynamic issues.

A key equation in calculating what is going on here is the following:

PV = nRT
Where
P = pressure (in N/m[SUP]2[/SUP] = Pa)
V = volume (m[SUP]3[/SUP])
n = number of moles
R = 8.31 J mol[SUP]-1[/SUP] K[SUP]-1[/SUP]
T = Temperature in Kelvins

From this equation, many thermodynamic properties of materials can be calculated, which leads to the phases of materials:

b618893a-f10.gif

This chart is interesting in that it shows the phase relations of both CO2 and Water; however, there is a slight backwards slope for water from the Triple Point, although after a certain Pressure, it behaves more like an ideal gas. So for the purposes of Sub/Super-Critical analysis, it's fine.
The point of this is when one starts adding "modifiers" into the matrix, their relative phase diagrams ALSO need to be considered.

Unfortunately, I am not an Organic Chemist; I don't know what sort of chemical reactions are taking place. But I do know how to calculate the Entropy/Enthalpy of a system along with Gibbs Energy (which leads to chemical potential), and can see there are going to be some strange interactions between the various solvents. For example, how much energy is being lost to heating water/ethanol during the pressurization?

And here's another issue that needs to be considered by these "mad scientists":

The supercritical solvent is a rule CO2 and the SFE process usually adopted consists of one separation stage only. This process arrangement revealed to be not suitable to obtain essential oils: it produces concrete like extracts, due to coextraction of cuticular waxes. Moreover, when the SFE has been conducted in non optimized conditions, the simultaneous extraction of some further families of unwanted compounds like fatty acids and their methyl esters has been produced. It has been demonstrated that it is necessary to adopt more complex process schemes to realize a better extraction selectivity [6].

http://gw-chimie.math.unibuc.ro/anunivch/2005-2/AUBCh2005XIV2287290.pdf

So when you see these pics of "green oil" and whatnot, you can bet it is because of these hokey, single-stage setups where a little knowledge can do a lot of damage...
Even though CO2 extraction is a fascinating subject, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting any of these garage chemists to be doing anything that can be considered value-added.

They'd be better off sticking to dry-ice and bubble bags... But hey... even I am willing to change my mind if presented with a good demonstration.

So... maybe when oilmkr decides to be more forthright and detailed in his methodology, the subject can be reconsidered more respectfully.
But for now, the only oil I am seeing is snake-oil.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
I came to a similar conclusion looking at my own simple minded DIY CO2 SCFE extraction design. It is easier to extract using SCFE C02, than it is to extract something pristine and special.
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
This thread has really inspired me. I am a chemist, I work for a pharmaceutical company so I acually know quite a bit on extractions and chem in general, I don't put ANY input in the concentrates section of riu for this reason exactly. All yall want to do is hate and try to call him out. And then when he shows you, you dissapear back into your cave like the troll yall are. Figong I got lots of respect for you, you were one of the main ones trying to prove he had no idea what he's talking about. Anyway my mini rant is over

Also note I only read the first 2 pages, seems yall are finally giving good info now
 

vacpurge

New Member
one of the main ones trying to prove he had no idea what he's talking about.

Also note I only read the first 2 pages, seems yall are finally giving good info now
actually, if you would have paid attention to his earlier threads and posts, oilmkr himself has proven that he has no idea what hes talking about. all of us have known that for months already though, so its not news to us that oilmkr is an idiot.

read more than 2 pages and youll see what a clown this guy is. hes been banned from every other weed site on the internet for a reason.
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Ah well in that case, sorry ya'll. Just as a new person to this site I see a lot of people getting attacked
 

vacpurge

New Member
its because we dont fuck around and a lot of us are getting sick of idiots that come in here acting like they know what theyre doing... cant provide pictures or an explanation for their lives, cooking off indoors, spewing bad information left, right and center. noobs and lurkers dont need to be reading their shit, thinking what theyre doing is ok and proper. not knowing stuff is fine, but it gets to a point where its 75% bullshit and wrong information and 25% intelligence. especially in oilmkrs case, and the idiot with the "majic can"

if someone is gonna come in here and try to tell some of the experts in here that smoking resin crumbs out of your pepsi can pipe is healthy, they better have some damn good fuckin information to back them up. or they better at least have their story/lies straight, in oilmkrs case. hes been caught contradicting himself so many times its not even funny anymore. complete fuckin clown and its driving me crazy.
 

650baquet

Active Member
The strange part is there is some logic to his method, but it is so haphazardly performed I have to wonder if he actually understands the underlying thermodynamic issues.
I've come across some many ppl like this. Really smart but surrounded by dumb ppl and horrible influences their whole life with seemingly no escape. I know a pretty trashy guy who used to do a ton of drugs, and he recently made a home made hydrogen generator in his living room...not exactly sure what he is going to use it for but seriously he could spend his money on better things, at least it hasn't been more drugs. Cool guys though and interesting to talk to once in a while haha
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
its because we dont fuck around and a lot of us are getting sick of idiots that come in here acting like they know what theyre doing... cant provide pictures or an explanation for their lives, cooking off indoors, spewing bad information left, right and center. noobs and lurkers dont need to be reading their shit, thinking what theyre doing is ok and proper. not knowing stuff is fine, but it gets to a point where its 75% bullshit and wrong information and 25% intelligence. especially in oilmkrs case, and the idiot with the "majic can"

if someone is gonna come in here and try to tell some of the experts in here that smoking resin crumbs out of your pepsi can pipe is healthy, they better have some damn good fuckin information to back them up. or they better at least have their story/lies straight, in oilmkrs case. hes been caught contradicting himself so many times its not even funny anymore. complete fuckin clown and its driving me crazy.
Agreed on all counts.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
I've come across some many ppl like this. Really smart but surrounded by dumb ppl and horrible influences their whole life with seemingly no escape. I know a pretty trashy guy who used to do a ton of drugs, and he recently made a home made hydrogen generator in his living room...not exactly sure what he is going to use it for but seriously he could spend his money on better things, at least it hasn't been more drugs. Cool guys though and interesting to talk to once in a while haha
I've known some "mad scientists," too. Similar story to yours.
As for the hydrogen, did the guy actually capture it, or just have fun with the science?

electrol.gif
The Electrolysis of Water
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
We used commercial electrolisis units to split water for the H2 and O2 to run small oxyfuel torches we used to assemble wax patterns for investment castings.

Have any of ya'll paid any attention to Brown's gas? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilz7zWISfd8
When I was learning to weld (way back when), I remember this topic coming up. I think the reason we don't see these "boxes" in larger industrial apps is because, for the purposes of cutting, Plasma and Lasers work better.
But I think the main reason this isn't used is due to its lack of safe and practical portability.
Doesn't one need ~286kJ to split the water into H2 and O2?
Some of that comes from ambient heat (~49kJ @ 298K), but the rest would need to come from "work". So 237kJ of electricity is needed per mole and that requires a generator.
Just from a standpoint of economics, the amount of capital required is counter-productive for most applications.

It might have some interesting niche applications, but I don't see it "revolutionizing" industry (which it seemingly hasn't done anyway, except for lawyers ;) ).
Even these damn Fuel Cells from Ballard only get ~30% efficiency... But potentially could be ~80%... We are sooooo far off from utilizing Hydrogen effectively, I suspect other technologies will just over-run its development.
 
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