What does it mean to be an atheist?

[kpmarine]

It seems to me that "atheist" is a very hubristic term. To declare "There is no God." seems to overstep the boundaries of our knowledge; on par with saying "I know the one true path to heaven." I see how one can be an atheist in a particular sense (i.e. toward the Christian God), but I don't see how someone can universally claim there is no God. If you claim that no God exists; you are as bad as someone who claims to know the one way to heaven.

I would be classified as an agnostic; seeing as I cannot verify the existence, or lack, of a God. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don' see how one can say whether or not there is a God at this point. Anyone care to clarify the atheist position? Maybe I'm just taking more directly than it is meant to be taken.

 

[mtgeezer]

Why do we have to contend with this crap?

 

[kpmarine]

Why do we have to contend with this crap?

With what "crap" specifically?

 

[GOD HERE]

Why is there a need for a "god". It wouldn't even cross your mind if it wasn't such a huge part of the culture. At its most basic level, the universe is math, guided by laws of physics and such. It's more of a acknowledgement that the probability of there being a god with divine power is negligible. That's not to say that there may not be life out there somewhere in this mind blowingly gigantic universe of ours that to us would resemble divinity. But ask yourself, have you ever seen evidence of something divine? Something you know to exist outside the laws of reality, but still have an effect on it? It's kind of an oxymoron.

 

[Nutes and Nugs]

Atheists have a closed mind or have a hard time using certain parts of their brain.
If it cant be scientifically proven, it's all just a bunch of shit to them.

A Non-atheist has the ability to "cross over". Their minds are open to a certain religion and faith in that religion and or other religions.
It works for me. Dreams, ghosts, premonitions, the voice of logic. Being in a church has a very 'Royal' type feeling to me.
To believe and pray has rewarded me with these senses.

Sorry I can't explain that to certain people who never crossed over.

 

[kpmarine]

Why is there a need for a "god". It wouldn't even cross your mind if it wasn't such a huge part of the culture. At its most basic level, the universe is math, guided by laws of physics and such. It's more of a acknowledgement that the probability of there being a god with divine power is negligible. That's not to say that there may not be life out there somewhere in this mind blowingly gigantic universe of ours that to us would resemble divinity. But ask yourself, have you ever seen evidence of something divine? Something you know to exist outside the laws of reality, but still have an effect on it? It's kind of an oxymoron.

How can you say anything is not evidence of the divine? That comes back to my question about the finite vs. the infinite. In a timeline beyond our current comprehension; how does a God become manifest? Once you give a deity man-made boundaries; it becomes ridiculous. It's fine to believe that there's no God, but it seems a bit assumptive to claim there is no God whatsoever.

 

[Padawanbater2]

It seems to me that "atheist" is a very hubristic term. To declare "There is no God." seems to overstep the boundaries of our knowledge; on par with saying "I know the one true path to heaven." I see how one can be an atheist in a particular sense (i.e. toward the Christian God), but I don't see how someone can universally claim there is no God. If you claim that no God exists; you are as bad as someone who claims to know the one way to heaven.

I would be classified as an agnostic; seeing as I cannot verify the existence, or lack, of a God. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don' see how one can say whether or not there is a God at this point. Anyone care to clarify the atheist position? Maybe I'm just taking more directly than it is meant to be taken.

There are 4 positions, agnostic theist, gnostic theist, agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist.

Agnostic theist: Someone who doesn't claim to know for sure a god exists
Gnostic theist: Someone who claims to know for sure a god exists
Agnostic atheist: Someone who doesn't claim to know for sure a god doesn't exist
Gnostic atheist: Someone who claims to know for sure a god doesn't exist

I believe it is equally as incorrect to be absolutely certain about anything, so taking the 'gnostic' position holds logical flaws. It is only reasonable to hold the 'agnostic' position, and it is a personal choice as to whatever conclusion a person reaches.

For me, it comes down to the lack of evidence and mathematical odds. Logistical errors and common sense, as well as knowledge of history play a role as well.

Atheists have a closed mind or have a hard time using certain parts of their brain.
If it cant be scientifically proven, it's all just a bunch of shit to them.

A Non-atheist has the ability to "cross over". Their minds are open to a certain religion and faith in that religion and or other religions.
It works for me. Dreams, ghosts, premonitions, the voice of logic. Being in a church has a very 'Royal' type feeling to me.
To believe and pray has rewarded me with these senses.

Sorry I can't explain that to certain people who never crossed over.

Why should I believe something if you are unable to prove it?

You believe it works for you, yet every time someone like you is asked to provide some kind of evidence of their claim, they fall short, perhaps the only thing that is certain in this world, pseudoscientific claims always fail the test. 100% of the time.

Church feels that way for you because you've been conditioned your entire life to feel that way. The same reason people feel different around celebrities.

 

[Nutes and Nugs]

There are 4 positions, agnostic theist, gnostic theist, agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist.

Agnostic theist: Someone who doesn't claim to know for sure a god exists
Gnostic theist: Someone who claims to know for sure a god exists
Agnostic atheist: Someone who doesn't claim to know for sure a god doesn't exist
Gnostic atheist: Someone who claims to know for sure a god doesn't exist

I believe it is equally as incorrect to be absolutely certain about anything, so taking the 'gnostic' position holds logical flaws. It is only reasonable to hold the 'agnostic' position, and it is a personal choice as to whatever conclusion a person reaches.

For me, it comes down to the lack of evidence and mathematical odds. Logistical errors and common sense, as well as knowledge of history play a role as well.



Why should I believe something if you are unable to prove it?

You believe it works for you, yet every time someone like you is asked to provide some kind of evidence of their claim, they fall short, perhaps the only thing that is certain in this world, pseudoscientific claims always fail the test. 100% of the time.

Church feels that way for you because you've been conditioned your entire life to feel that way. The same reason people feel different around celebrities.

• Atheists have a closed mind or have a hard time using certain parts of their brain.
  If it cant be scientifically proven, it's all just a bunch of shit to them.​
  
  

 

[kpmarine]

There are 4 positions, agnostic theist, gnostic theist, agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist.

Agnostic theist: Someone who doesn't claim to know for sure a god exists
Agnostic atheist: Someone who doesn't claim to know for sure a god doesn't exist
For me, it comes down to the lack of evidence and mathematical odds. Logistical errors and common sense, as well as knowledge of history play a role as well.

How do an Agnostic theist and Agnostic atheist truly differ? Both claim that there is no definite proof of god's existence at their root. Is there some subtlety I am missing? I can see how a literal and universal concept of "god" seems ridiculous, but I don't see how one can logically prove there is no god whatsoever.

 

[tyler.durden]

There are 4 positions, agnostic theist, gnostic theist, agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist.

Agnostic theist: Someone who doesn't claim to know for sure a god exists
Gnostic theist: Someone who claims to know for sure a god exists
Agnostic atheist: Someone who doesn't claim to know for sure a god doesn't exist
Gnostic atheist: Someone who claims to know for sure a god doesn't exist

I believe it is equally as incorrect to be absolutely certain about anything, so taking the 'gnostic' position holds logical flaws. It is only reasonable to hold the 'agnostic' position, and it is a personal choice as to whatever conclusion a person reaches.

For me, it comes down to the lack of evidence and mathematical odds. Logistical errors and common sense, as well as knowledge of history play a role as well.



Why should I believe something if you are unable to prove it?

You believe it works for you, yet every time someone like you is asked to provide some kind of evidence of their claim, they fall short, perhaps the only thing that is certain in this world, pseudoscientific claims always fail the test. 100% of the time.

Church feels that way for you because you've been conditioned your entire life to feel that way. The same reason people feel different around celebrities.

Nice post, Pad. You beat me to it, +rep...

 

[kpmarine]

Nice post, Pad. You beat me to it, +rep...

The problem is that none of this has clarified, for me, how the Atheist position of "there is no god" possesses any more truth value than the "there is a god" claim. That was the real point of my OP; how can any person claim to know the whole truth, at this point?

 

[Nutes and Nugs]

They cannot.

 

[MrStickyScissors]

I dont know if there is a god.. I dont know if there are spirits... but it seems in other parts of the world and even here you will run into alot of people even groups of people that swear they have seen spirits.. for example the winchester mansion... even the people that work there have seen things. now unless all these people are lying that means there is some kind of being that we cant explain... so I geuss if you believe that everyone that says they have seen a ghost is lying then yeah maybe there is no proof... im just not sure i can believe that so many people would lie. i know that people exagerate and might think they have seen somthing but there are groups of people that have seen the same thing.

 

[kpmarine]

They cannot.

Would a hardline theist not have this same issue? Surely, you would acknowledge that anyone that claims to held the key to universal salvation is only grasping at straws that reflect what we know?

 

[Padawanbater2]

• Atheists have a closed mind or have a hard time using certain parts of their brain.
  If it cant be scientifically proven, it's all just a bunch of shit to them.​

It would seem to me that the theist is the one with the closed mind, especially when it comes to scientific discoveries

How do an Agnostic theist and Agnostic atheist truly differ? Both claim that there is no definite proof of god's existence at their root. Is there some subtlety I am missing? I can see how a literal and universal concept of "god" seems ridiculous, but I don't see how one can logically prove there is no god whatsoever.

An agnostic theist believes there is a god but has no proof or evidence to support the idea that there is one. An agnostic atheist does not believe there is a god but has no proof or evidence to support the idea. Realistically, we should all hold one of these two positions, as they are the only reasonable ones to hold.

It is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God.

 

[tyler.durden]

It seems to me that "atheist" is a very hubristic term. To declare "There is no God." seems to overstep the boundaries of our knowledge; on par with saying "I know the one true path to heaven." I see how one can be an atheist in a particular sense (i.e. toward the Christian God), but I don't see how someone can universally claim there is no God. If you claim that no God exists; you are as bad as someone who claims to know the one way to heaven.

I would be classified as an agnostic; seeing as I cannot verify the existence, or lack, of a God. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don' see how one can say whether or not there is a God at this point. Anyone care to clarify the atheist position? Maybe I'm just taking more directly than it is meant to be taken.

Hey, KP! Only a small subset of atheists go so far as to make the positive claim that there is absolutely no deity. As you say, at this point how could we know? An atheist is simply someone who does not believe in a deity, someone who is unconvinced by the arguments for a deity. If you do not believe and cannot be sure if a deity exists, you are an agnostic atheist. If you do believe and cannot be sure a deity exists, you are an agnostic theist (haven't met many of those). As Pad stated, either agnostic stance is the only reasonable position. Here's one of my favorite videos to help clarify the atheist stance, a collaboration of some popular skeptical heavies. Enjoy!

[video=youtube;CLsanX4ZMxQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLsanX4ZMxQ[/video]

 

[kpmarine]

I dont know if there is a god.. I dont know if there are spirits... but it seems in other parts of the world and even here you will run into alot of people even groups of people that swear they have seen spirits.. for example the winchester mansion... even the people that work there have seen things. now unless all these people are lying that means there is some kind of being that we cant explain... so I geuss if you believe that everyone that says they have seen a ghost is lying then yeah maybe there is no proof... im just not sure i can believe that so many people would lie. i know that people exagerate and might think they have seen somthing but there are groups of people that have seen the same thing.

People can believe whatever they want, as long as they don't require me to believe the same. Some things can only function at a subjective level, such as spirituality, and they are best kept there.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I dont know if there is a god.. I dont know if there are spirits... but it seems in other parts of the world and even here you will run into alot of people even groups of people that swear they have seen spirits.. for example the winchester mansion... even the people that work there have seen things. now unless all these people are lying that means there is some kind of being that we cant explain... so I geuss if you believe that everyone that says they have seen a ghost is lying then yeah maybe there is no proof... im just not sure i can believe that so many people would lie. i know that people exagerate and might think they have seen somthing but there are groups of people that have seen the same thing.

That's the thing, people who claim to have seen or experienced something supernatural don't have to be lying. They might actually honestly believe that's what they experienced. The problem with that is that the human brain is not perfect at analyzing what our senses tell us is true. Our senses can be fooled quite easily and lead our brains to believe a whole host of things that simply aren't true and can't be reproduced. This is why science is so important, because what can't be reproduced remains pseudoscience, and useless. Science provides us a way to disregard our senses and rely on a consistent set of standards to determine what is real or true. If it can't pass the test, it gets discarded.

 

[kpmarine]

It would seem to me that the theist is the one with the closed mind, especially when it comes to scientific discoveries



An agnostic theist believes there is a god but has no proof or evidence to support the idea that there is one. An agnostic atheist does not believe there is a god but has no proof or evidence to support the idea. Realistically, we should all hold one of these two positions, as they are the only reasonable ones to hold.

It is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God.

So Agnostic theist= "I believe in god, but can't prove it."
an then Agnostic atheist= "I don't believe in god, but can't prove no god exists."

To me, the one that claims a negative should be discarded by a reasonable person (As a negative is inherently un-provable.). When taken as a whole; both Agnostic concepts end with 'God is unprovable'. So I am left with the question: What's the real difference here? It seems to be a division based on your ideals, rather than facts; therefore, a response that only serves your pride. There is no point in didviding in which way you cannot prove god's existence, unless you wish to create division. What is gained?

 

[Nutes and Nugs]

It would seem to me that the theist is the one with the closed mind, especially when it comes to scientific discoveries

Most theist's have a narrow viewpoint as does the general atheist.
It's not about science, it's about faith.