Cloning Issue - Frustrated as I Can Be. Please Help!

[philcox7572]

Are you using heating mats, set to around 80F ? Warm feet cool heads.

Bottom heat can make a big difference. roots grow faster. Pythium likes it cool. Water will move up through the soil better and keep the humidity high enough in a domed vented chamber.

No, I havent been because my heat inside by cabinet has been up around 80 and I thought that was contributing to the rot. I will put them in there and give it a shot.

 

[PurpleBuz]

Humidity and climate are definitely an issue. We dont exactly have consistent weather where I am so climate has to be controlled. The only time I have had a high rate of success cloning was last summer when my Central Air was on the verge of dying and the temps were 80 in my house and humidity was like 65 to 70. I had one batch with a 58 out of 60 success rate, half of them rooted within 5 days. That is the one and only time I have gotten more than like a 40% success rate.

You just confirmed the problem and the solution. Get a heat mat and a heat controller. set it to 80F and go back to simple domes. The stem rot is favored by being wet and cool temperatures.

 

[PurpleBuz]

No, I havent been because my heat inside by cabinet has been up around 80 and I thought that was contributing to the rot. I will put them in there and give it a shot.

make sure your chamber has enough ventilation to allow the moisture and heat flow through.
If your chamber is up to 80F by itself you might have too much lighting. Until the clones get some roots they really don't need strong light.

 

[philcox7572]

make sure your chamber has enough ventilation to allow the moisture and heat flow through.
If your chamber is up to 80F by itself you might have too much lighting. Until the clones get some roots they really don't need strong light.

The temps come from the humidifier rather than the lights. Temps drop to around 70 when the humidifier is off. I just have flouros for light, nothing extreme. I guess I could take some bulbs out. I also have windows cut in the side for airflow to go though along with little 4" fans on each level for air circulation and an oscillating fan about 4 feet away circulating air in the room.

 

[PurpleBuz]

The temps come from the humidifier rather than the lights. Temps drop to around 70 when the humidifier is off. I just have flouros for light, nothing extreme. I guess I could take some bulbs out. I also have windows cut in the side for airflow to go though along with little 4" fans on each level for air circulation and an oscillating fan about 4 feet away circulating air in the room.

oh that makes sense. You had 80F air temp, and 70F soil temp, with the warmth provided by the humidifier. The exact opposite of what you want. The heat mat will warm the soil, and warm the water in the soil and create humidity. Under the right conditions you could have all the humidity you need just from the heat mat and a sprtiz of water a few times a day. I do my cuttings in seedling trays filled with soiless mix. The whole tray supplies moisture for humidity.

My suggestion is to stop relying on the humidifer or at least limit its usage.

 

[Red1966]

I clone with a home made aerocloner on a timer set to 30 seconds every 4 minutes. I do nothing to control humidity levels except what the central A/C supplies. I use plain tap water with just a bit of Olivia's. I dip the clones in rooting jell before placing them in the cloner. I have near 100% success. I think maybe your humidifier is causing rapid swings in temp and humidity and killing your plants. You shouldn't need it, anyway. As long as your clone's stems get moisture every few minutes, low humidity shouldn't harm them. I go straight from cutting to dipping to placing in the cloner for each cutting. That way the stem doesn't get a chance to dry out and close off the capillaries.

 

[philcox7572]

oh that makes sense. You had 80F air temp, and 70F soil temp, with the warmth provided by the humidifier. The exact opposite of what you want. The heat mat will warm the soil, and warm the water in the soil and create humidity. Under the right conditions you could have all the humidity you need just from the heat mat and a sprtiz of water a few times a day. I do my cuttings in seedling trays filled with soiless mix. The whole tray supplies moisture for humidity.

My suggestion is to stop relying on the humidifer or at least limit its usage.

Without the humidifier, the humidity in that room is less than 20% and the humidity in that chamber is in the high 20s. I have had exactly success without a humidifier unless it is July or August and there is humidity. I was thinking about maybe switching to a cool air humidifier. I dont run the humidifier constantly, I have it on a timer where it runs for 45 minutes, off for 30 minutes. If it stays off for more than 30 minutes, the humidity starts dropping quickly.

I will dig out my heat mats today and give them a shot.

 

[philcox7572]

I clone with a home made aerocloner on a timer set to 30 seconds every 4 minutes. I do nothing to control humidity levels except what the central A/C supplies. I use plain tap water with just a bit of Olivia's. I dip the clones in rooting jell before placing them in the cloner. I have near 100% success. I think maybe your humidifier is causing rapid swings in temp and humidity and killing your plants. You shouldn't need it, anyway. As long as your clone's stems get moisture every few minutes, low humidity shouldn't harm them. I go straight from cutting to dipping to placing in the cloner for each cutting. That way the stem doesn't get a chance to dry out and close off the capillaries.

When I do my cuttings, I make the Olivia's rooting solution with water PH'd to 6 and put some in some cups, do my cut and place them in there until I put them in my medium. I am not going back to the EZ Cloner, that was a nightmare for me and a lot of wasted time. I know this cabinet can work if I can stop the stem rot from happening.

From what I have gathered on here and doing some reading, I need to switch my medium to something that doesnt hold too much water (like Vermiculate and Perlite), need to use my heat mats, and maybe build some kind of intermittent mister that goes off every once in a while instead of the humidifier.

 

[PurpleBuz]

When I do my cuttings, I make the Olivia's rooting solution with water PH'd to 6 and put some in some cups, do my cut and place them in there until I put them in my medium. I am not going back to the EZ Cloner, that was a nightmare for me and a lot of wasted time. I know this cabinet can work if I can stop the stem rot from happening.

From what I have gathered on here and doing some reading, I need to switch my medium to something that doesnt hold too much water (like Vermiculate and Perlite), need to use my heat mats, and maybe build some kind of intermittent mister that goes off every once in a while instead of the humidifier.

In addition to my standard potting mix (coco,peat,perlite,lime) I usually add some SAND to increase air space and drainage.

 

[Red1966]

I think you are over doing the humidity thing. I think the EZ Cloner sprays constantly, doesn't it? Probably over does it. Either way, aerocloning has worked great for me and others. I don't think you should discard it so easily. You can build your own very cheaply. Hot melt glue a 6" skirt of plastic like panda film inside the perimeter of the lid and it will prevent water seeping out where the lid and the tub meet. Aerocloning is the easiest way to clone. Four weeks or less to clones with 6 inch roots ready to transplant. Never had any mold problems, maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[philcox7572]

In addition to my standard potting mix (coco,peat,perlite,lime) I usually add some SAND to increase air space and drainage.

Just regular sand or any particular kind of sand?

 

[philcox7572]

I think you are over doing the humidity thing. I think the EZ Cloner sprays constantly, doesn't it? Probably over does it. Either way, aerocloning has worked great for me and others. I don't think you should discard it so easily. You can build your own very cheaply. Hot melt glue a 6" skirt of plastic like panda film inside the perimeter of the lid and it will prevent water seeping out where the lid and the tub meet. Aerocloning is the easiest way to clone. Four weeks or less to clones with 6 inch roots ready to transplant. Never had any mold problems, maybe I'm just lucky.

Just to be clear, I am not using the aerocloner now. I have a 120 EZ Cloner and used it for about a year and never had any success with it. Followed all the instructions and I think the most success I had was like 20 out of 120.

The times I have had the most success is with humidity over 60 in the space. Anything less than that and I dont have any success at all. Without a humidifier, there is less than 20% in that room unless it is July or August and sometimes not even then.

 

[Sunbiz1]

Along with trying the vermiculate and perlite mix, I am going to try a few of the pellets as well. I have never wanted to use them because they seem like a pain in the ass but I am going to give it a shot. I have always preferred to clone in the same mixture I use for flowering because it makes for a stress free transplant and they dont miss a beat. I start flowering and they start growing right away.

Humidity and climate are definitely an issue. We dont exactly have consistent weather where I am so climate has to be controlled. The only time I have had a high rate of success cloning was last summer when my Central Air was on the verge of dying and the temps were 80 in my house and humidity was like 65 to 70. I had one batch with a 58 out of 60 success rate, half of them rooted within 5 days. That is the one and only time I have gotten more than like a 40% success rate.

I tried everything outside of a purchased or homemade cloning machines, it takes time(3-4 weeks in some cases)and patience with some strains while others seem to not miss a beat. When we take a cutting, the only means for it to absorb water is through leaves...until roots establish. For this reason they really need a controlled environment simulating the jungle in form of humidity domes. I used to use cake pans(with the plastic tops), then finally bought a Mondi dome which have adjustable vents. Even with the controlled dome, some cuttings I eventually have to force by removing/placing into regular medium...otherwise mold becomes an issue.

Good luck!

 

[cannabiscultivation]

like this you mean?

 

[jessica d]

The temps come from the humidifier rather than the lights. Temps drop to around 70 when the humidifier is off. I just have flouros for light, nothing extreme. I guess I could take some bulbs out. I also have windows cut in the side for airflow to go though along with little 4" fans on each level for air circulation and an oscillating fan about 4 feet away circulating air in the room.

you dont want any fans either so drop them. moisture will rise when you add a mat. a simple dome with a beer cooler or anything even dixie cups and a ziploc bag works man.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I have a lot of problems cloning. I have gone through method after method including using EZ Cloners with hardly any success. I have to cut about 150 clones to get like 20 that will root, if that.

I know one of my main problems was lack of control of the climate. So, I built a DIY humidity cabinet by taking one of those plastic 4 shelf units you get at Wal-Mart, attaching some 48" flourescents to the top, and then wrapping it in sheet plastic. I cut windows on one side for ventilation and access. I also put a humidifier on the bottom shelf. The humidity in the room where I grow is like 19% without anything to provide it so I think that is why I havent had much success.

So, I have the humidity where I can control it based on the setting of the humidifier and by the size of the window (I can tape the cut out part up further). The temp was a little high in there (like 80 degrees) so I got some little 4" fans for each shelf and it lowered the air to like 73 to 75 degrees. I tape it closed for the first two days where I have humidity in the 90s and then I cut some of the tape off and allow some air to get in to lower the humidity to the high 70s and 80s.

I clone in dixie cups in a mixture of cocoa and perlite.

The problem I am having is stem rot. I have gone through like 500 clones in this unit and only had three root and they didnt survive long afterword. The rest die within 3 to 5 days where the top of it is fine but the stem from where it meets the medium to the end just rots out. It is happening with every single one.

Anyone have any ideas on how to prevent this? I have a very clean growing environment and I sanitize all my tools with alcohol wipes when I do my cuttings. I thought this would fix this issue with the temp and humidity and it has but now I have another issue. No matter how I try to clone there is always a problem area. You are suppose to have high humidity and temps to clone but when you create it, you create an environment for fungus so it seems like a Catch-22 where it is impossible to get this right. I constantly see people cloning at success rates above 90% and I have no idea how that is even possible, it is extremely aggravating.

Sorry, I know this is a rant but I have been trying to clone at a good success rate for a couple of years with no success at all. I have spent tons of money and nothing works at all.

Do I need to use another medium that doesnt hold water so well? I have always read to keep cocoa wet for clones but it seems like here, it is leading to the problem. I am also using a warm mist humidifier, do I need to use a cool mist one? I really, really need to make this work. Please, someone, tell me how to fix this.

thats classic damping off.

you got fungus killing your cuttings from too much humidity.

make sure your medium is STERILE before you use it, baking it in the oven for an hour at 250, and cleaning your accoutrements domes and area with bleach will fix the infestation, but you have to keep the humidity down once they start to root or they will keep croaking.

sanitize your area medium and tools like you were gonna do surgery on your favorite kid, and once the cuttings start making roots, take them out of the humidity dome.

 

[Scroga]

I try and keep it simple...make sure your cutting has strong stem, avoid immature, flimsy and weak..
I use rapid rooters, tap water, hormone powder and tupperware bucket.
Pre soak plugs, squeeze out excess water...turn upside down so they are free standing, take cuts, drop into cup o water,1 by 1 remove from cup, trim, dip in hormone, insert into plug, place in tupperware, light mist once initially then only mist underside of lid when moisture is needed....pop lid on! Air out for a few minutes once a day....it is a balancing act you have to practice to learn but pretty much you want minimal moisture to generate humidity...so don't overdo the mistings or you will get damp off.....hope this helps, good luck buddy!

 

[cannabiscultivation]

all good advice.

 

[FilthyFletch]

These are just in domes with 2 T5 lights on them rapid rooter used rooting powder at day 5 showing root.

 

[Dr Kynes]

so youre saying that Tidy Cat is the key to cloning success...

who knew?