To Decarb or Not?

Meeeeech

Member
Hey all, I realize this is probably a common question, but I thought I'd be specific for what I'm doing. What I want to do is make potent canna-dipping oil for bread. I usually make brownies, and they kick my ass. Last time, though, I tried stopping after extracting the THC into oil and then adding some herbs and dipping my bread in it. It was okay, but not nearly as potent as when I make brownies. Most people have said that I should have decarbed the weed if I wasn't going to bake the oil into brownies.

Could someone explain why this is the case? Or if it is actually necessary? I never decarb when making brownies and they're fine. Also, I cook my oil at roughly 210-230 degrees, for what it's worth. Thanks!

p.s. - if you think decarbing is a necessity, could you link to a guide or explain how? Double thanks!
 

technical dan

Active Member
decarbing breaks a carboxyl group off of THCAcid turning it into the psychoactive form THC. THCA does not get you high THC does just google cannabis decarb if you want more detail/ more accurate explanations. And yes you do decarb when you make brownies you just aren't thinking about it at the time. The THCA decarbs when you are cooking your brownies or when you infuse your oil if you hold it in that temp range for a while otherwise the next easiest way will be to decarb you weed in the oven at ~220 for 20 or so min and then infuse your oil. This will get the THCA to THC before it touches the oil. With decarb and infusions remember higher temps = faster reactions but keep it in range.

Also make sure the potency of the oil is the same and that you are ingesting the same dose with the bread as the brownies.
 

Meeeeech

Member
Thanks for the info, I made sure the amount of oil was the same for the first few doses and it wasn't really doing much, which is what led to me wondering about the decarb question.

So the act of baking the brownies (with canna-oil that's already been infused with THC) bumps up the potency? And I should decarb before extracting into the oil for maximum potency? I'm thinking about trying again this weekend.

Note: It's not like the oil didn't work, it just took more than it should have. I made 10oz of this oil for dipping using an ounce of weed and found it took about 1.5oz of the oil to get the same effect as 3ish brownies, which works out to about 3x as much oil for the same effect. (3/48 brownies and 1.5/10 oz respectively.)
 

technical dan

Active Member
yes it changes the THC from the form of THCAcid which does not get you high to THC delta 9 which does. Either way is fine but you will need to heat the oil weed mix to some degree no matter what to (infuse it) speed up the binding of THC to fats/ lipids (which is different than decarb).

So yeah based on that it sounds like the continuation of decarb during baking is what made the brownies more effective. But I have also noticed that certain types of edibles just do not work well for me regardless of dose. Gummies have never done shit for me, neither did the tea n coffee pouches dispensaries sell, but cannabutter pancakes work reliably for me.
 

2Kushed

Active Member
Decarb Graph.jpg

Yes, it needs to be decarbed. Decarboxylation is time and temp. If you heat your oil to 250F, you can watch the CO2 bubbles being released. When the bubbles stop the THC starts to degrade, see graph curve #4 (252F, 27 min.) Your material is partially decarbed, so it will not take 27 min. (Graph courtesy Jump 117 Moscow)
 

Sparty82

Active Member
Hey all, I realize this is probably a common question, but I thought I'd be specific for what I'm doing. What I want to do is make potent canna-dipping oil for bread. I usually make brownies, and they kick my ass. Last time, though, I tried stopping after extracting the THC into oil and then adding some herbs and dipping my bread in it. It was okay, but not nearly as potent as when I make brownies. Most people have said that I should have decarbed the weed if I wasn't going to bake the oil into brownies.

Could someone explain why this is the case? Or if it is actually necessary? I never decarb when making brownies and they're fine. Also, I cook my oil at roughly 210-230 degrees, for what it's worth. Thanks!

p.s. - if you think decarbing is a necessity, could you link to a guide or explain how? Double thanks!
I too vote for decarbing. After reading this article, it's just to easy to do it and be sure. I don't see a down side.

I pasted in a great article on the subject from Cannalytics

http://www.micannalytics.com/index.php


What is decarboxylation?

In living cannabis plants, the cannabinoids are synthesized in an acidic form. This form has little effect on humans and must be heated to lose a carbon dioxide molecule to become active.

What are the optimal conditions for decarboxylation?

Maximum conversion of THCA into THC has been reported to occur by heating for 15 minutes, at 300 degrees Fahrenheit, which results in a 70% conversion rate. Insufficient heating will result in the majority of the cannabinoids to remain in their acidic form, while excessive heating will result in degradation of THC to CBN or vaporization of the compounds. Cannalytics recommends heating plant material in the oven prior to mixing it with any other ingredients.

Batching and Dosages

In order for your test results to have maximum relevance, Cannalytics recommends that edibles be made in as large of batches as possible and that each dosage be of the same weight. This will reduce variability in the potency reported for each product allowing patients to better predict how a product will make them feel.
The preferred method for reporting the cannabinoid concentration of edibles is by total milligrams of each cannabinoid present. This is obtained by multiplying the mass of each edible by its concentration (% w/w). Patients may be surprised to see that the average cannabinoid content of edibles is between 30-90 mg, thinking that this is too little an amount to have an effect. Here's an example to demonstrate that this is an appropriate amount. Let's assume that an average joint as a mass of 1000 mg (1g) with a THC concentration of 15%, meaning there are 150 mg of THC in this joint. Now consider the fact that 70% of THC is destroyed by combustion, meaning that only 45 mg of THC would remain to reach the patient's lungs. From this example it is easy to see that edibles within the 30-90 mg range would indeed be at a therapeutic concentration.
The Advantage of HPLC

Because our high-pressure liquid chromatography method does not involve heating the samples for quantification, we are uniquely positioned to distinguish between products that have been properly decarboxylated prior to analysis from those that have not. The chromatograms below are examples of edibles that we have received to date. You can see the extent of decarboxylation by comparing the relative areas of the THC and THCA peaks.

References

Dussy et. al. (2005). Isolation of d9-THCA-A from hemp and analytical aspects concerning the determination of d9-THC in cannabis products. Forensic Science International; 149: 3-10.
 

Meeeeech

Member
Awesome info, thanks a bunch! I'm going to try decarbing at 300 for 15min like it says, then extracting into oil like normal and see if it works better (when I get some green in the near future).

Just to be super clear, can you decarb cannaoil? I'm not going to do that, but that would explain the difference in potency between brownies and plain oil. That's kind of the biggest question I've had and while all this info is great and I'm definitely going to do it this way, I'm still curious about the discrepancy between the two.
 

technical dan

Active Member
yes you can decarb once/when the THC(A) is in the oil. Thats how it works when you make butter (unless you pre dry your material in the oven), the THCA goes to THC while it simmers in the pot and the THCs also bind to the lipids during the heating. Heat speeds up the decarb and the bonding.
 

Meeeeech

Member
Okay, I think that's it then. Mystery solved! Thanks everyone for the help, looking forward to trying this now.
 

Meeeeech

Member
I think they're saying that baking with already made cannabutter/oil boosts potency (b/c it's decarbing in the oven), but the best way is to decarb before making the butter.
 

Meeeeech

Member
Generally I understand decarbing to be when you put the actual weed into the oven and heat it up for 15min or so (the specifics are around here on the forums) to turn THCA (doesn't get you high) to THC (gets you high). Then you make your oil/butter like normal. I was wondering about the reverse order where you bake brownies and therefore do the decarbing after making the butter/oil, which is why I started the thread. From what I understand, decarbing first results in more efficiency (and therefore more potency). Hope that helps, and that I'm not horribly wrong.
 

technical dan

Active Member
either before or after introducing it to the food both/either will accomplish the decarb. But if the weed is decarbed prior to cooking the THC still needs to be bound to the fats in the food. The mj and food mix (weed and butter ect.) needs to be heated together so the THC will bind to the fats in the food.
 

LadyZandra

Active Member
Just made a batch of Coconut oil using Ice Hash instead of weed--
After infusing it, I raised the temps to 175f for 15 minutes--- was that the right way to go???
 

technical dan

Active Member
I would say 200 for 20 min (with occasional stirring) but yes thats the idea and that will have kick started the process. Why did you use ice water hash for edibles? thats my favorite stuff to smoke n dab.
 

Erysichthon

Well-Known Member
I have been researching this for a while now. this most recent batch of oil, finished 5 min ago i took great attention with. i did decarb it before hand, up to about 235(and totally happy with that now) heres why.

im using the double boiler technique. only i use a mason jar for the second boiler, and in my cook i couldnt get my oil over 210ish. can anyone guess why?

water boils at 212. anything past that just goes to steam. unless your cooking straight oil its going to be hard to attain the 228ish you need for decarb.

so im glad i did my decarb. i advise you to decarb as well, unless your heating straight oil. which btw is my next step. after i eat/test this batch of brownies. i will update of course after next batch.

Ery
 

fatboyOGOF

Well-Known Member
i've been making cookies or firecrackers with a measured dose of 1.5 grams. with a couple genetics, it gets me right where i like to be, with a couple of others it's just below that place.

before i dive deeper into this subject (something i'm not capable of at the moment), are you guys saying that i should decarb my pot first (as in baking it at 200 or 300 degrees for 15 minutes or so), then mix it into the peanut butter/oil mix for the firecrackers? now i just lay down some peanut butter, lay pot over that, pour on some olive oil, wrap them up and bake them at 310ish.

i know- READ! but seriously, i ate the firecrackers about 2 hours ago, so you know... :)


i ate too much pot once and didn't eat pot again for over 2o years so i'm concerned about the dosages from something like canna butter. i like to know exactly how much i'm getting. once over the top was more than enough for me and i ate a lot of acid back in the day. this was something different. bad different.


by the way, i got the impression that eating pot was more of a body stone but the head high from what i've been eating is really nice, just what i would want if i were smoking a joint, and i don't really notice a body stone. my mostly sativa dom genetics maybe?
 

technical dan

Active Member
water boils at 212. anything past that just goes to steam. unless your cooking straight oil its going to be hard to attain the 228ish you need for decarb.
nothing wrong with your methods but decarb does happen at 228 and 200 and 160 and room temp it just happens at a slower rate as the temp decreases. The curves show the most efficient way (fastest time wise) with the higher temps but decarb happens while the weed sits around. It is happening (slowly) in your jars when you bud cures and when it sits in there waiting to be smoked.

Yes fatboyOGOF IM(limited)E with firecrackers decarbing before does help significantly (esp. with their short cook time)

Genetics will affect the high but I always feel mostly/ almost all body from weed edibles. If you make hash ones you can get more of a head high like some butter and hash oil gives more of a head high which I prefer. I'm actually going to go make some stony time pancakes with this right now hehehe
 
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