Biological prevention everyone should use when growing.

[Uncle Ben]

not mj... i can snap some others though if you want.

they were just sprayed with Bayer 3in1 on Sunday. So it's looking pretty mild.

I know what PM looks like, trust me, but I've never seen it on cannabis. My outdoor plants have been subjected to the conditions that are ripe for PM bloom like days of rain, high RH, moderate temps and never have I seen PM issues. Weird but my native bur and chinkapin oaks (which should be resistant) will get PM while the cannabis just keeps on growing.

The Bayer product will pretty much give you protection for any kind of issues. It's labeled for ornamentals so be sure you know what you're doing like the interval required from the time of application to consumption. For starts it contains imdacloprid, a powerful systemic insecticide that is labeled for anything edible and ornamentals. It is the silver bullet for insect control IMO. I buy it in bulk under the Adonis 75 label. It's cheap and super toxic (75%) to you name it so if you go with this brand which I got cheap on Ebay, go VERY easy with it. One foil packet is enough to do 1,000 acres of say, peach trees --> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adonis-75-WSP-InsecticideTermiticide-Imidacloprid-4-x-2-25-oz-Water-Soluble-Paks-/200797562870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec077a7f6 We're talking label rates of 1.6 oz/300 gallons for foliar sprays of acreage.

The other day I mixed up 20 gals. and using my wand's sprayer with an adjustable cone tip nozzle at 40 psi, hit field material, around the house hit my roses, melons, and then had plenty left over to open up the 10' wide boom and drench about 12,000 s.f. of turf for grub control, which tend to really eat up our lawns (June beatles, etc.) Grubs eat the roots, bam, dead. Also added T-methyl to the mix, a broad spectrum systemic fungicide.

UB

 

[HeartlandHank]

I know what PM looks like, trust me, but I've never seen it on cannabis.

Of course. I didn't think you were looking for a pic to show you what PM is.

It looks the same as it does on any other soft and thin leaf. Roundish patches that rub off. I used to get it on my Romulan plant, until I said to hell with it and threw the plant out.

If a plant shows PM indoors here I just get rid of it. PITA not worth dealing with imo.

 

[HeartlandHank]

The Bayer product...

UB

The 3 in 1 is only being used on ornamentals. I do however use Merit 75 on MJ at a rate of 1tsp per 10 gallons, per the label. 90 days is as close to harvest as I treat them with Imid. And, only mothers, I never drench coco that will go into flower. If I need a coco knock down drench I use Pyganic or the like. It WRECKS the roots though... the only time it is worth it is when trying to salvage flowering plants, 3-4 wks from harvest, with root aphids.
Yeah, I agree, the stuff works very well. I've had the same bottle of Merit 75 for maybe 3 years now. Other than the packaging, you can't even tell it's been used.. I think I paid maybe 80 for the jar. No way I finish this in a life time unless I start using it for commercial purposes.

I used the 3 n 1 for the first time this spring. A friend recommended it for PM. I took it to a few recently planted trees with PM, lightly. I also hit many Crepe Myrtles with it on Sunday. They seem to be doing fine. Less PM and no burn or necrosis so far. I liked imid with the PM treatment of the crepe myrtles because when the aphids get going and leave their sticky shit on the leaves they collect dust and start to look not so good.

For the veggie garden, if something is so bad that the old grandma tricks don't work I just pull it out.
If I had something like melons that might take years to produce then I could see using it.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Compare my link with Merit Pro. Merit is a rip. I have a bottle and the shelf life sucks too. Precipitated out on me. Go with the powder form.

 

[HeartlandHank]

I can't find anything on a Merit Pro. I have Merit 75 WSP. 75% imid.
It looks like it is the same as the Adonis.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I can't find anything on a Merit Pro. I have Merit 75 WSP. 75% imid.
It looks like it is the same as the Adonis.

OK, you have the wettable powder. Pro is a liquid. Adonis 75 is the same product but for 1/5 the cost. Adonis - 9oz for $37 shipped. Merit - 6.4oz for $135 shipped!

 

[HeartlandHank]

OK, you have the wettable powder. Pro is a liquid. Adonis 75 is the same product but for 1/5 the cost. Adonis - 9oz for $37 shipped. Merit - 6.4oz for $135 shipped!

Yeah, muuuuch cheaper. It's a little late for me, but good info. thanks.

 

[Pepe le skunk]

If anyone wants to use ScanMask or Actinovate SP as natural defenses against Powdery Mildew and Nats, this is what I would suggest. Apply these 2 Biologicial wonders and 2 of the three most common aliments will be a thing of the past. Both treat good numbers for the cost. Works best as a deterrant while you water and mist your plants.




Hope that helps.

 

[Pepe le skunk]

Another product that is all natural and I would use to kill spider mites and especially Thrips is called Spinosad. Spinosad (spin-OH-sid), a naturally
occuring soil dwelling bacterium that was collected on a Caribbean island from an abandoned rum distillery in 1982. Captain Jack Deadbug Brew contains spinosad and is sold at Depot. Works very well and I think because it kills Thrips is an even better product for prevention than neem oil. And it is an all natural biologic control.

Should be used on any new clones from outside sources as well as the other 2 products mentioned above.
Hope that helps.

 

[Friedrice]

I haven't had many problems with insects until recently and never had a problem with PM.

I had a pretty decent fungus gnat problem that I took care of yesterday.
What I found that helped was top dressing with dry EWC about 1 inch and spraying with Dr. Earth's organic insect spray..
It's made from garlic, rosemary, wintergreen/spearmint, cinnamon, citric acid, and a few other things.

It really helped me.... I sprayed the top of my soil before top dressing.. Then I sprayed the top dress and did a light foliar spray.
This morning I woke up and noticed considerably less fungus gnats... Supposedly it works with aphids, fungus gnats, earwigs, spiders, silverfish, white flies, mites, and a slew of other insects.
Looks to be working quite well... Don't know how it affected my soil yet, we'll see

 

[Friedrice]

*deleted post*

 

[Malevolence]

If you need more diversity, I used the recipe in the DWC root slime thread. $40 will make enough tea to last a whole year for most personal growers.

R/O water with General Hydro Ancient Forest ($15 for 0.5ft[SUP]3[/SUP]) and Mycogrow soluble ($6 an oz from fungi.com + shipping); feed with a dash of blackstrap molasses ($15); bubble with air stone 48 hours. The Mycogrow is the same stuff as Great White without the starter food enzymes, which I don't need because of molasses. The Ancient Forest adds a fuck ton of diversity like nematodes, fungi, etc.

 

[Pepe le skunk]

I haven't had many problems with insects until recently and never had a problem with PM.

I had a pretty decent fungus gnat problem that I took care of yesterday.
What I found that helped was top dressing with dry EWC about 1 inch and spraying with Dr. Earth's organic insect spray..
It's made from garlic, rosemary, wintergreen/spearmint, cinnamon, citric acid, and a few other things.

It really helped me.... I sprayed the top of my soil before top dressing.. Then I sprayed the top dress and did a light foliar spray.
This morning I woke up and noticed considerably less fungus gnats... Supposedly it works with aphids, fungus gnats, earwigs, spiders, silverfish, white flies, mites, and a slew of other insects.
Looks to be working quite well... Don't know how it affected my soil yet, we'll see

Make sure you fill a few (10) little plastic dishes or bowls with vinegar, dish soap and water (little fresh flyers cannot resist it)and place around drain holes(don't spill in soil, vinegar kills plants) to catch any of the new hatchlings and do a soil soak and the drain holes especially(where they tried to hide on mine) with something like gnatrol(larvicide for the larve stage) or the babies will just hatch and repeat the cycle. Also yellow fly traps I cut into strips to catch the small flyers after they emerge from the soil. Because just when you think they are gone (life cycle research) they come back. Be proactive, trust me.

If you need more diversity, I used the recipe in the DWC root slime thread. $40 will make enough tea to last a whole year for most personal growers.

R/O water with General Hydro Ancient Forest ($15 for 0.5ft[SUP]3[/SUP]) and Mycogrow soluble ($6 an oz from fungi.com + shipping); feed with a dash of blackstrap molasses ($15); bubble with air stone 48 hours. The Mycogrow is the same stuff as Great White without the starter food enzymes, which I don't need because of molasses. The Ancient Forest adds a fuck ton of diversity like nematodes, fungi, etc.

Very interested in the Mycogrow. And the tea I picked up something from the grow store called Vermi T Solution. It is a tea and it has a 2 week shelf life if refregerated for the microbes and good guys to stay alive. I'll use it as a spray (foiler feeder) and root zone drench with water and Silica. The compost tea has earthworm castings, compost, humus, molasses and kelp in it. Will look at your method because you cannot beat that price. The only question I have is the tea your describing above from the DWC root slime thread is you are making it in small batches so the stuff will make the tea over the course of a year correct? Cause a tea has a shelf life? 1-2 weeks is what I read.

I was reading up on teas and foiler feeding and was going to hopefully do a little more research on these items and report back how they work and if there are cheaper alteratives available and report back in this thread. So far here is what I have found out.

Dutch masters Gold Range Saturator (wetting agent and transfer into leaf surface) A Surfactant.
Dutch Masters Liquid Light (for carbo's) Does this help carbo load in flower?
Halo or Messenger (harpin protein) Claimes to end Powdery Mildew and something else.
Pro tekt- Immunity and plant damage repair product.
Calcarb Need to research more what it does.
Compost tea) (your method in DWC thread) Compare both and price point.
Silica- Supposed to help the cell walls and the plants ability to handle heat stress and bending branches without breaking. (Cyco Silica -good stuff and Potassium Silicate)
Nitrozyme- seaweed Nitrogen.
Mycogrow soluble ($6 an oz from fungi.com + shipping)

Will try and get some feed back and add it to for easy reference point for everyone.
Hope that helps

 

[Friedrice]

Make sure you fill a few (10) little plastic dishes or bowls with vinegar, dish soap and water (little fresh flyers cannot resist it)and place around drain holes(don't spill in soil, vinegar kills plants) to catch any of the new hatchlings and do a soil soak and the drain holes especially(where they tried to hide on mine) with something like gnatrol(larvicide for the larve stage) or the babies will just hatch and repeat the cycle. Also yellow fly traps I cut into strips to catch the small flyers after they emerge from the soil. Because just when you think they are gone (life cycle research) they come back. Be proactive, trust me.

Ive been debating on working with BTI but im not sure how the inclusion of the bacteria will affect my soil(im organic).
The vinegar and dish soap idea sounds like a possibility.
I have been having some come out of the drainage holes so I need to do something...
Right now my way of combating them was that dr earth spray, top dressing, and I am letting my soil get extremely dry.

we'll see how it goes:S

 

[Pepe le skunk]

Ive been debating on working with BTI but im not sure how the inclusion of the bacteria will affect my soil(im organic).
The vinegar and dish soap idea sounds like a possibility.
I have been having some come out of the drainage holes so I need to do something...
Right now my way of combating them was that dr earth spray, top dressing, and I am letting my soil get extremely dry.

we'll see how it goes:S

I used nematodes top dressing and Gnatrol as a bottom drain hole soak. (3 times over 14 days) Then set in a dry saucer to drain excess. Top dressed the soil with nematodes and covered with sand. After 3 weeks I removed the sand from the tops. Actually each time I watered I removed the sand to one side. Royal PITA but necessary to eliminate them. As for the bacteria. Bti, is a naturally-occurring soil bacterium. The bacterium produces proteins in a crystalline form. When the mosquito larvae eats these crystals, the proteins attack their gut wall, paralyzing the larvae. Bti has a highly specific mode of action, and is of minimal environmental concern. Bti is quickly biodegraded and leaves no residue. If you don't kill the larve you will not end the cycle as soon. 4 week life cycle. They lay up to 300 eggs a day. Bastards.

With the dry soil I found the larve would hatch into flyers within 24 hrs of watering. I used 15 little cups of vinegar and was surprised at the numbers it would catch.
Good luck.

 

[Malevolence]

Very interested in the Mycogrow. And the tea I picked up something from the grow store called Vermi T Solution. It is a tea and it has a 2 week shelf life if refregerated for the microbes and good guys to stay alive. I'll use it as a spray (foiler feeder) and root zone drench with water and Silica. The compost tea has earthworm castings, compost, humus, molasses and kelp in it. Will look at your method because you cannot beat that price. The only question I have is the tea your describing above from the DWC root slime thread is you are making it in small batches so the stuff will make the tea over the course of a year correct? Cause a tea has a shelf life? 1-2 weeks is what I read.

The recipe calls for 2 gallons R/O water, 2 handfuls of ancient forest humus in pantyhose, and a pinch - maybe 1/3 or 1/2 tsp or something Mycogrow, and 1 or 2 tablespoons black strapped molasses. I'm not in soil, but I believe for soil, innoculate about 2 or 3 times the whole grow. Add about 1 cup of tea to 5 gallons of water, and store the remainder in the fridge for about 10 days or until it begins to smell like feets and ass.

In this way, the ingredients should last a year or so depending on your grow op. You can easily scale up the recipe... but honestly the ingredients could last years in soil. In DWC you would use a lot more of it, and it still goes a super long way for $40. This is just the base tried and proven recipe. There is room to tweak and customize it. For example in DWC we use lava rock or koi pond mats for housing.

I learned a ton just by skimming through that bennies thread. Because it is so long, only read Heisenberg's posts; it is the good shit. For example, you can use the tea on cat piss stains and shit like that. I have never used it, but apparently it is about a billion times better and more effective than enzyme cleaning agents they sell in walmart etc. It might take a couple applications.

Dutch masters Gold Range Saturator (wetting agent and transfer into leaf surface) A Surfactant.
Dutch Masters Liquid Light (for carbo's) Does this help carbo load in flower?
Halo or Messenger (harpin protein) Claimes to end Powdery Mildew and something else.
Pro tekt- Immunity and plant damage repair product.
Calcarb Need to research more what it does.
Compost tea) (your method in DWC thread) Compare both and price point.
Silica- Supposed to help the cell walls and the plants ability to handle heat stress and bending branches without breaking. (Cyco Silica -good stuff and Potassium Silicate)
Nitrozyme- seaweed Nitrogen.
Mycogrow soluble ($6 an oz from fungi.com + shipping)

Will try and get some feed back and add it to for easy reference point for everyone.
Hope that helps

I have heard good things about foliar feeding with Liquid Light + Saturator. I will be trying it this grow. Pro-tekt is silica. I read a thread in the hydro boards months ago where it was pretty much determined Pro-Tekt had the most silica and was the "best" between Botanicare's Silica Blast and AN's Rhino Skin.

 

[Friedrice]

is a naturally-occurring soil bacterium. The bacterium produces proteins in a crystalline form. When the mosquito larvae eats these crystals, the proteins attack their gut wall, paralyzing the larvae. B

Im favorable with most of what your saying except this.
im pretty sure when they eat the bti it doesn't paralyze them but stops them from eating and they eventually starve to death. I could be wrong?

 

[Pepe le skunk]

The recipe calls for 2 gallons R/O water, 2 handfuls of ancient forest humus in pantyhose, and a pinch - maybe 1/3 or 1/2 tsp or something Mycogrow, and 1 or 2 tablespoons black strapped molasses. Add about 1 cup of tea to 5 gallons of water, and store the remainder in the fridge for about 10 days. the ingredients should last a year or so, goes a super long way for $40.

I have heard good things about foliar feeding with Liquid Light + Saturator.

Pro-tekt is silica. I read a thread in the hydro boards months ago where it was pretty much determined Pro-Tekt had the most silica and was the "best" between Botanicare's Silica Blast and AN's Rhino Skin.

Picked up some Great white and it's bubbeling now. Will give it a try. Will probably also try the mycogrow product too.$48 for 8oz compared to $64.75 for great white.

I really do like the Saturator product if it does what it says. Am using it and they seem to like it so far. Using the tea with the Saturator for now as a foiler feeding. Will try it with Vitamino by Botanicare.

Have you tried the Cyco silica? Was told by the guys at the shop it is best value for the money.

On to that list above. Went back and asked more questions about Carbs, Amino acids, Sugars and Finishers and compared many different ones out there. Was looking for products to add during flower that help add weight and to provide what is missing from the usual base nutrients. Price was also considered along with what these products are ment to do.

Here are the results:
Botanicare Vitamino- Amino supplement, B1, N
Atami Bloombastic - Carbs, K and P and chelated Iron.
Bcuzz Blossom Builder- Finisher, K and P.
Strapped Molasses Botanicare- sugar, Carbs

After reading the labels I want to find out if they have something else in them because the Bloombastic and Blossom Builder seem to be similar. Will look into it more.

Bloombastic = Kool Bloom, Big Bud, Massive,ect.
Vitamino = H & G Amino, Big bud, ect
Bcuzz Blossom Builder = Snowstorm, Gravity, Overdrive
Black Strapped Molasses = Carbo Load, Sweet, Bud Candy, Bud Swell

One last thing about how the watering, fert, Carbs, and tea is served to them in flower and to avoid to many salts building up in flower with the final flush.
A three part watering program.

Day 1- Ferts, Silicia, Cal mag, ect
Day 2- Water mostly with Carbs (Molasses)
Day 3- Tea and Great White microbes.

Repeat. This way everything is metered into the soil. Oh and I use subcools soil too, but not as much, so it stretches the mixture longer with less expensive soil and coco.

Im favorable with most of what your saying except this.
im pretty sure when they eat the bti it doesn't paralyze them but stops them from eating and they eventually starve to death. I could be wrong?

I simply cut and paste from the website the information on the product. All I know is it really helps cut down their numbers. It seemed like every time I watered new ones would come out of the soil. After I broke the cycle with Gnatrol, they stayed away.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Picked up some Great white and it's bubbeling now. Will give it a try. Will probably also try the mycogrow product too.$48 for 8oz compared to $64.75 for great white.

I really do like the Saturator product if it does what it says. Am using it and they seem to like it so far. Using the tea with the Saturator for now as a foiler feeding. Will try it with Vitamino by Botanicare.

Have you tried the Cyco silica? Was told by the guys at the shop it is best value for the money.

On to that list above. Went back and asked more questions about Carbs, Amino acids, Sugars and Finishers and compared many different ones out there. Was looking for products to add during flower that help add weight and to provide what is missing from the usual base nutrients. Price was also considered along with what these products are ment to do.

Here are the results:
Botanicare Vitamino- Amino supplement, B1, N
Atami Bloombastic - Carbs, K and P and chelated Iron.
Bcuzz Blossom Builder- Finisher, K and P.
Strapped Molasses Botanicare- sugar, Carbs

After reading the labels I want to find out if they have something else in them because the Bloombastic and Blossom Builder seem to be similar. Will look into it more.

Bloombastic = Kool Bloom, Big Bud, Massive,ect.
Vitamino = H & G Amino, Big bud, ect
Bcuzz Blossom Builder = Snowstorm, Gravity, Overdrive
Black Strapped Molasses = Carbo Load, Sweet, Bud Candy, Bud Swell

One last thing about how the watering, fert, Carbs, and tea is served to them in flower and to avoid to many salts building up in flower with the final flush.
A three part watering program.

Day 1- Ferts, Silicia, Cal mag, ect
Day 2- Water mostly with Carbs (Molasses)
Day 3- Tea and Great White microbes.

Repeat. This way everything is metered into the soil. Oh and I use subcools soil too, but not as much, so it stretches the mixture longer with less expensive soil and coco.

I simply cut and paste from the website the information on the product. All I know is it really helps cut down their numbers. It seemed like every time I watered new ones would come out of the soil. After I broke the cycle with Gnatrol, they stayed away.

You're one cannabis snake oil junkie.

 

[NietzscheKeen]

Picked up some Great white and it's bubbeling now. Will give it a try. Will probably also try the mycogrow product too.$48 for 8oz compared to $64.75 for great white.

I really do like the Saturator product if it does what it says. Am using it and they seem to like it so far. Using the tea with the Saturator for now as a foiler feeding. Will try it with Vitamino by Botanicare.

Have you tried the Cyco silica? Was told by the guys at the shop it is best value for the money.

On to that list above. Went back and asked more questions about Carbs, Amino acids, Sugars and Finishers and compared many different ones out there. Was looking for products to add during flower that help add weight and to provide what is missing from the usual base nutrients. Price was also considered along with what these products are ment to do.

Here are the results:
Botanicare Vitamino- Amino supplement, B1, N
Atami Bloombastic - Carbs, K and P and chelated Iron.
Bcuzz Blossom Builder- Finisher, K and P.
Strapped Molasses Botanicare- sugar, Carbs

After reading the labels I want to find out if they have something else in them because the Bloombastic and Blossom Builder seem to be similar. Will look into it more.

Bloombastic = Kool Bloom, Big Bud, Massive,ect.
Vitamino = H & G Amino, Big bud, ect
Bcuzz Blossom Builder = Snowstorm, Gravity, Overdrive
Black Strapped Molasses = Carbo Load, Sweet, Bud Candy, Bud Swell

One last thing about how the watering, fert, Carbs, and tea is served to them in flower and to avoid to many salts building up in flower with the final flush.
A three part watering program.

Day 1- Ferts, Silicia, Cal mag, ect
Day 2- Water mostly with Carbs (Molasses)
Day 3- Tea and Great White microbes.

Repeat. This way everything is metered into the soil. Oh and I use subcools soil too, but not as much, so it stretches the mixture longer with less expensive soil and coco.

I simply cut and paste from the website the information on the product. All I know is it really helps cut down their numbers. It seemed like every time I watered new ones would come out of the soil. After I broke the cycle with Gnatrol, they stayed away.

Take care not to love them to death.
Look, don't buy Saturator. Go to a tractor supply or a co-op in your area and ask for a surfactant. It's a lot cheaper and as far as I can tell, it's the same thing. I'm all for the teas, but if you're using synthetic fertilizers... there isn't much point.