What's the interest in growing with retail store LED bulbs?

brotherjericho

brotherjericho

Well-Known Member
I've seen some partial grows on here using Cree LED bulbs and similar to grow cannabis. However, whenever I go to the local big box stores, I never see prices that would tempt me to try this for myself. I do know that that I can get 12000 lumens for less than a hundred dollars initial investment, while it would well be more than that using the store bought LED bulbs.

Now I know lumens is only one measure. But I don't see any evidence that the PAR rating of this shelf LEDs are any better than CFLs.

So what is the interest? Power savings? Not trying to be contentious, just wondering where the exercise will lead us.
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/led/spectra7.htm

One might argue CFL's have a better spectral output than, say, Warm White LED's that can be bought from Home Depot, or elsewhere.

I think people use LED bulbs because they are easily obtained for relatively cheap, highly efficient, are easy to wire up in smaller closet/micro grows, have a long life span, and don't contain Mercury. Most of those can be said for CFL's, you're right. An added benefit is some of these LED bulbs are configured almost like down lights. These aren't optimum for normal lamp use since we're used to incandescents emitting light everywhere, but for growing being able to direct nearly 100% of the emitted light straight into your plant canopy is nice, as opposed to bouncing light off a reflector back at plants. This increases the efficiency advantage even more.

I think lower wattage COB's could be just as cool if you were up for a little DIY, it really isn't hard. Or perhaps LED flood lights like the ones Chronikool uses. I'm guessing the chips used in LED bulbs are higher quality than a lot of the Chinese ones you find in COB's, but that's a cost-efficiency balancing act you need to perform on your own.
 
brotherjericho

brotherjericho

Well-Known Member
Well, I want to look at this with numbers, and I'm about to make some assumptions. Let's assume that these LEDs are more efficient in getting the light to the plant where it is needed so only 75% of the lumens is needed. Looking on Home Depot's site, an average 13w LED spot or flood light (Philips) is ~$35, and puts out 850 lumens. The same company's CFLs cost around ~$3 a bulb for 23w, with 1655 lumens. Let's say I build a fixture with 8 23w CFLs, that would be a lumen output of 13240 and a bulb cost of $24. To get 75% of that from LED, I'd need ~12 LED lamps with an initial investment of $420!

Rated life of CFL is 12k hours, LED light is 25k hours, so a little more than twice as long. So I would have to replace the CFLs once, let's go twice...and it would cost me a total of $72. That's still no where near the original estimate of the LEDs of $420.

Even if we assume 50% lumens needed, that's still 8 LED lights at an investment of $280. Still being beat by CFLs at $72.

So I'm trying to wrap my head around this, what is the appeal?
 
brotherjericho

brotherjericho

Well-Known Member
Bumping Spheda said:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cree-9-5-Watt-60W-A19-Warm-White-2700K-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-6-Pack-BA19-08027OMF-12DE26-1U100/204084366#.UZ4FOKv71e4

They last 22.8 years (199860.5 hours) @ 3 hours/day, 84 lumens per Watt, has more Red in spectrum (better flowering), however these are omnidirectional just like CFL's.
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Exactly, so if they are omnidirectional, then they go back up to a direct comparison. A lumen output of 13240 would require almost 17 bulbs @ ~162w vs 184w for CFL. Still be $225 initial investment, life expectancy of 25k hours vs CFL of 12k.

It may be fun to experiment, but I simply do not see the value of using household LED bulbs.
 
brotherjericho

brotherjericho

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Never said they do, simply pointing out lumens are not a useful measure to purchase ANY leds for growing mmj
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Yes, doing a DIY panel using specific spectrums makes alot of sense, i get that. But we're not talking about DIY panels, we're talking about bulbs that are intended for household fixtures.
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
Have you seen this?


FranJan said:
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OK so the LED plant is getting nice and bushy and while the CFL plant is a bit behind, it is finally starting to respond to my training. Still more light in the cabinet is the answer to the slow growth that I'm getting. These plants are gonna stay in veg for a while I think and if I have the room I might try to repeat this demo with 2 SLH I have that are perfect for this. Otherwise I think those interested in more CREE bulb fun should check out captainmorgan's (LINKY) journal in LED/Other. Good Luck Capt. and thanks to Alex281 and everyone else for their kind words and views.
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That's only veg. Dunno about flower. The "big deal" is efficiency, though. If you don't care then yeah, fluoro's still work. You could also just buy your CFL's and then supplement them with ~10W of DIY 660nm+630nm.
 
BeastGrow

BeastGrow

Well-Known Member
brotherjericho said:
Well, I want to look at this with numbers, and I'm about to make some assumptions. Let's assume that these LEDs are more efficient in getting the light to the plant where it is needed so only 75% of the lumens is needed. Looking on Home Depot's site, an average 13w LED spot or flood light (Philips) is ~$35, and puts out 850 lumens. The same company's CFLs cost around ~$3 a bulb for 23w, with 1655 lumens. Let's say I build a fixture with 8 23w CFLs, that would be a lumen output of 13240 and a bulb cost of $24. To get 75% of that from LED, I'd need ~12 LED lamps with an initial investment of $420!

Rated life of CFL is 12k hours, LED light is 25k hours, so a little more than twice as long. So I would have to replace the CFLs once, let's go twice...and it would cost me a total of $72. That's still no where near the original estimate of the LEDs of $420.

Even if we assume 50% lumens needed, that's still 8 LED lights at an investment of $280. Still being beat by CFLs at $72.

So I'm trying to wrap my head around this, what is the appeal?
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i got my 13w LED light bulb for 19 bucks.. it gives out 950 lumens
 
BeastGrow

BeastGrow

Well-Known Member
LED = 13W = 950 Lumens = 73 Lumens / watt = 50,000 hours = dimable = ~$18-20 = $18-20 over 50,000 hours + electricity cost.
CFL = 23W = 1655 Lumens = 72 Lumens / watt = 5,000 hours = not dimable = ~$3-4 =$30-40 over 50,000 hours + electricity cost.

LED are pretty much equivalent to CFL. LED becomes a clearer choice if you plan on growing with it for more than 3 or 4 years.
 
brotherjericho

brotherjericho

Well-Known Member
Bumping Spheda said:
Have you seen this?

That's only veg. Dunno about flower. The "big deal" is efficiency, though. If you don't care then yeah, fluoro's still work. You could also just buy your CFL's and then supplement them with ~10W of DIY 660nm+630nm.
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Yes, I saw that, but pictures can be deceiving sometimes. Is there really more growth on the LED, or are the nodes further apart? For instance, I used to veg with 6500k PLLs, went to 4000k CMH when I switched veg spaces. The CMH plants weren't necessarily "bigger" they were just taller, with the nodes further apart. I have switched back to 6500k PLLs (with a different configuration) just this week because I prefer the tighter nodes for my growing style.

Plus my heat is much more manageable.
 
S

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
If you mean "are household bulbs really worth it in comparison with an actual panel" then there are three possible answers

1. You can screw-in and out to switch up your spectral distribution - A point which is rendered moot by the lack of choice and comparitive expense IMHO.

2. You cant afford to buy a a panel in one go and must buy it "bit by bit" - a bad idea for the same reason payday loans are bad.

3. You cant be arsed to DIY a panel
 
brotherjericho

brotherjericho

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
I don't understand how you continue to misinterpret me. I know full well that your thread is about household leds. You should check out my thread

View attachment 2668689View attachment 2668690
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I see that...and tbh, those plants look stretched to beat all hell. Its exactly what I would expect from weak lighting. No offense, just the way I see it from my vegging experiences with anything from 100% sativa to 90% indicas.
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
For me it was several reasons,but heat and money were probable the main ones.I needed something that was going to run cool and not run up my electric bill, but I couldn't afford a quality panel like Area 51 and didn't want to buy a cheaper one. DIY'ing something of quality is not cheap and if it has problems or doesn't work well for my set up, what then.I thought that with the Cree bulbs, if it did not work for me I could just use them around the house and I wouldn't be out much cash. I like to DIY but don't have much cash so I thought this was worth a try.
 
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