Do you have to use nutes ?
- Thread starter taksr420
- Start date
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Yes, you do.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
If you grow organic you can make your own compost and worm castings and get away without buying ferts. $15 will buy you 25LBS of organic chicken manure and if you recycle your soil you can grow pounds without spending anymore than that.
Growing with chems in promix or rockwool, even seedlings can starve if you don't feed em lol.
Growing with chems in promix or rockwool, even seedlings can starve if you don't feed em lol.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Bring on the chicken shit.
I hear it actually works very well.
I hear it actually works very well.
mr sunshine
Well-Known Member
u shuld just buy some nutes make it as easy as possible. then on the next grow u can make ur own soil and realize how much u overspent ....u can either. spend money and time or just money take ur pick.
ThorGanjason
Well-Known Member
Posted this in my journal yesterday, but here's a little experiment I set up while I was asking myself the same question.
These four plants were given a full strength concentration of nutes. Notice how the secpnd set of leaves are already working on their next node, and already have all 3 fingers?
These 3 plants were started at the exact same time, and were given only water. Notice how much less foliar development they have.
As a note, the 3 look way smaller but the camera was just farther away. The leaves are closer to the same size (except the one is really small), but like I said there is an obvious difference in growth in about 4 days.
There are a couple other factors that could be affecting, tho. The pots are bigger for the smaller ones, so maybe they are working on root development. If that's the case, then I'm sure theyll either catch up or surpass the other ones, so well see. They're also on a slightly different water schedule, but I don't think that is the determining factor BC even tho I've been watering them differently, they both dry up fast enough to keep them soaked/dry for too long. But who knows.
These four plants were given a full strength concentration of nutes. Notice how the secpnd set of leaves are already working on their next node, and already have all 3 fingers?
These 3 plants were started at the exact same time, and were given only water. Notice how much less foliar development they have.
As a note, the 3 look way smaller but the camera was just farther away. The leaves are closer to the same size (except the one is really small), but like I said there is an obvious difference in growth in about 4 days.
There are a couple other factors that could be affecting, tho. The pots are bigger for the smaller ones, so maybe they are working on root development. If that's the case, then I'm sure theyll either catch up or surpass the other ones, so well see. They're also on a slightly different water schedule, but I don't think that is the determining factor BC even tho I've been watering them differently, they both dry up fast enough to keep them soaked/dry for too long. But who knows.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Do you add limestone to your soil? They look a bit calcium deficient.
Do you check the pH?
Do you check the pH?
Hugo Phurst
Well-Known Member
Notice the burn in the center of the new growth? Do not ever fert/nute a seedling/cutting ever again. Feel lucky if they don't die.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
You should try experimenting like him and you'll realize that a soil or solution rich in nutrients (not too high) is better than 0 nutrients.
With soil, you're supposed to load it up with compost or castings and some lime before you even start.
Realize that you're telling someone who just did an experiment that his plants, that were fed full strength, are about to die unless he's "lucky".
He now has experience in this matter. Even though his "full strength" set shows some issues, it's also clearly a lot more developed than the ones that only got water.
Also, I don't see any burn.. What I see is petioles where they join the leaf blades. It looks like a dot the color of the petiole.
With soil, you're supposed to load it up with compost or castings and some lime before you even start.
Realize that you're telling someone who just did an experiment that his plants, that were fed full strength, are about to die unless he's "lucky".
He now has experience in this matter. Even though his "full strength" set shows some issues, it's also clearly a lot more developed than the ones that only got water.
Also, I don't see any burn.. What I see is petioles where they join the leaf blades. It looks like a dot the color of the petiole.
ThorGanjason
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I check the pH (of my soil, not my water--but I did get some indicator solution at the grow store today). My soil pH reader is kind of shitty, it has 3 prongs of different types of metals, no batteries required (ever, not sure how that works) and it takes like 2 or 3 minutes to steady off with a reading, and I'm still not sure how accurate it is.
But anyways, my pH stays a little above 6, probably 6.2. But in a couple pots it was a little more basic, getting closer to 7. I read that calcium requires the lowest pH range for absorption, so I might be a little too high (nyuck nyuck) for it to use the calcium.
I've been watering with tap water, which I heard has enough cal/mag in it to sustain a seedling.
Another reason I've been thinking I have a calcium or magnesium deficiency (hard to tell the difference) is BC of the yellowing spots, and some of my bigger plants are starting to claw/make the taco shape, which I've read can be a cal/ or mag def.
I've been wanting to pick up that calcium nitrate (I was questionable at first, but I read about how plants can only uptake nitrogen as nitrates or ammonia, so I'm definitely wanting to try it).
What do you think, should I get some calcium or might I be locked out?
ThorGanjason
Well-Known Member
Let me try and get some better pics up sometime tonight if I can. I'm not seeing much of a difference between these four and the other 13 seedlings I've started, as far as color/look in general on the new growth. Other than the fact that sometimes the smaller leaves start as purple dots, and the new growth comes in green and the purple grows to the border.
I am experiencing some slight clawing issues with larger plants that might be happening to some of my smaller ones. I'm looking into whether its deficiency or being locked out or what.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Since you're growing soil, you should stick to lime for calcium as nitrate producing bacteria are actually slowed down by a higher nitrate level. When the bacteria produce nitrates, it substitutes out with the carbonate of the lime and makes the calcium more soluble, a little at a time. Bacteria are responsible for converting other forms of N into nitrate slowly, and slow down as the nitrate level gets higher.
Calcium nitrate is great when your medium has no calcium in it (soiless media) and you have no bacteria. It's pretty much the only way to provide highly soluble calcium at the level hydro plants need. It's also the main supply of nitrate too, for hydro.
I'm not sure about the pH window for Ca absorbance, but adding lime raises the pH, so a low pH in soil can indicate not enough lime.
Calcium nitrate is great when your medium has no calcium in it (soiless media) and you have no bacteria. It's pretty much the only way to provide highly soluble calcium at the level hydro plants need. It's also the main supply of nitrate too, for hydro.
I'm not sure about the pH window for Ca absorbance, but adding lime raises the pH, so a low pH in soil can indicate not enough lime.
brotherjericho
Well-Known Member
How healthy are you when you don't eat?
ThorGanjason
Well-Known Member
Okay, yeah I'm really starting to think I might be nute-locked. The more I look at the leaves, the more clawing I see. Unless its a calcium deficiency, but would it show a calcium deficiency this young with tap water? And BTW, it is over watered-- its planted in straight hummus (ancient forest) mixed with perlite, and holds water like crazy. This is the first time its stayed this wet until this late tho, I've been gone for like six hours it usually dries quicker.
Here are some pics, tell me what you think. I'm seeing the taco shape on the leaves, as well as a shininess (I earlier attributed to heat stress, but these were started after I got control of the temps, so its gotta be something else. Fresh air might be a factor, my ventilation isn't proper yet but in a closet with an open door and a fan ten feet in front of a window with an air conditioner. I don't know if it pulls air from outside or recirculates or what.
And here's one to see if you can tell if my new growth is burned:
Where could I get lime from? My friend suggested and after hearing you say it I'm definitely thinking it would help. I saw a picture/infographic thing that showed different elements and their spectrum for absorption, and calcium was the lowest one, so I would guess hydro plants don't lock out calcium as much as soil grows. BTW, I have only adjusted pH once, I have basic stuff from the pet store, not even sure what it is but ive only treated one plant once and brought it up but I haven't touched the others.
ThorGanjason
Well-Known Member
Haha, god I'm so high. I hope that post made sense, I haven't smoked in days. I got my pH buffer from pet smart, but its for aquariums. Cheap stuff. Didn't know if it made sense saying from the pet store, lol.
I swear I don't think the new growth is burned, maybe I'm wrong.
I swear I don't think the new growth is burned, maybe I'm wrong.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Definitely mix some dolamitic lime in your soil when you transplant. I'm not sure exactly how much, I haven't grown soil in a while. Too much lime will make the pH too high and provide too much Ca, blocking out other cations like K, Mg, Fe.
Make sure the aquarium pH up isn't sodium based or it would just help to block out calcium.
Make sure the aquarium pH up isn't sodium based or it would just help to block out calcium.
ThorGanjason
Well-Known Member
Man, I am having the hardest time finding out what exactly the pH plus solution is. It doesn't say on the bottle, and I've checked online and even called the number on the bottle and waited for about 20 minutes before they sent me to voicemail.
I'm thinking there might be sodium in it. There's a ring of white sandy stuff forming around the bottle cap lid that I used to measure with, but that still doesn't necessarily mean it has sodium I guess.
Before getting my ffof yesterday, I was using straight hummus as my medium mixed with some perlite. It said to use it as 10-25% of the total medium, and I assumed it said that because the soil was too hot. Now I'm thinking it may be BC it doesn't have certain things needed (like calcium maybe) or the pH isnt ideal at 100%. I started 5 seedlings in straight ffof yesterday to see if they make it.
I'm noticing a trend of this shiny leaf/claw thing in most of my plants as they get bigger, and pretty much all of them (except the new ones) are in the hummus. I have 40 plants, but I'm only concerned about 3 of them making it, and they are really young. The only plant that is old enough to have the claw but doesn't have it that bad is my first plant Larry, who is the only plant in a part miracle grow/ part hummus medium.
I'm gonna take a couple of my control plants (no nutes) and try taking the pH down and see what happens. I'm afraid to put my 3 good plants in the ffof yet BC they're so young, but I'm already seeing some yellowing in the cotyledons and I don't want them to wind up with the same problem as my older ones.
The only other factor that could affect all of them might be the air, so I ran a little 4" duct work from a fan coming from the window and pointed it right at my light, we'll see how that goes.
Gosh, it seems like I have a lot of plants, but by doing expiremnts with 4 and five of them at a time I'm running out of controls fast, lol. I could've just done one at a time, but it would be harder to rule out individual anomalies. Hell I'm having a hard enough time controlling my variables as it is.
I'm thinking there might be sodium in it. There's a ring of white sandy stuff forming around the bottle cap lid that I used to measure with, but that still doesn't necessarily mean it has sodium I guess.
Before getting my ffof yesterday, I was using straight hummus as my medium mixed with some perlite. It said to use it as 10-25% of the total medium, and I assumed it said that because the soil was too hot. Now I'm thinking it may be BC it doesn't have certain things needed (like calcium maybe) or the pH isnt ideal at 100%. I started 5 seedlings in straight ffof yesterday to see if they make it.
I'm noticing a trend of this shiny leaf/claw thing in most of my plants as they get bigger, and pretty much all of them (except the new ones) are in the hummus. I have 40 plants, but I'm only concerned about 3 of them making it, and they are really young. The only plant that is old enough to have the claw but doesn't have it that bad is my first plant Larry, who is the only plant in a part miracle grow/ part hummus medium.
I'm gonna take a couple of my control plants (no nutes) and try taking the pH down and see what happens. I'm afraid to put my 3 good plants in the ffof yet BC they're so young, but I'm already seeing some yellowing in the cotyledons and I don't want them to wind up with the same problem as my older ones.
The only other factor that could affect all of them might be the air, so I ran a little 4" duct work from a fan coming from the window and pointed it right at my light, we'll see how that goes.
Gosh, it seems like I have a lot of plants, but by doing expiremnts with 4 and five of them at a time I'm running out of controls fast, lol. I could've just done one at a time, but it would be harder to rule out individual anomalies. Hell I'm having a hard enough time controlling my variables as it is.
Well what are the best nutes to buy as a beginner I've been growing my plants for 4 weeks just water from my sink lol . I can go get nutes whenever I just don't know which ones to get . :/